Quietest motor?

[jmillr]

Interesting findings, @jmillr!


Could that impression come from the chain and freehub ratchet noise? Because motors on both e-bikes belong to the same new line.

I don’t think so. Both bikes had a belt drive. I noticed the sound while pedaling, not hard, just normally. The only major difference was the manual transmission vs the Automatiq.

 

[PSm]

Thanks, everyone, for your comments. I test-rode a Como 4 IGH and a Vado 5 IGH today; the main difference besides frame geometry was manual vs. Automatiq. The Como 4 was almost completely silent; I was very pleasantly surprised. The Vado 5 wasn't loud, but motor noise was more noticeable than the Como 4. I felt very much 'at home' with the Como 4 since I'm so used to manually shifting my Jamis with the Nuvinci hub.

The closest competition now, in my mind, is the Evelo Atlas. But I hesitate to order one, assemble it, and test ride it only to discover that the sound is too much (or some other issue) and then disassemble it, repack it, and send it back. I am considering it though.

I do wish the Prodigy came with an IGH and belt drive.

Thanks again for all the comments, it has been very helpful. I do understand how subjective this issue it, but it also seems that as long as the motor is 'relatively' quiet, I will 'get used to it' and still enjoy the rides.

Good that you found something quiet that you like. Something about an e-bike that sounds as quiet as an analog bike, that just adds to the joy of a ride (especially when out on country roads, or when otherwise not much ambient noise around you).

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I don’t think so. Both bikes had a belt drive. I noticed the sound while pedaling, not hard, just normally. The only major difference was the manual transmission vs the Automatiq.

I'm sorry! Was not quite awake while writing my post
I cannot understand how the sound of the Specialized 2.0 and 2.2 motor could be so different!

 

[tomjasz]

The rare joys of aging ears. I turn down my hearing aids and all motors are quiet. Almost true…

 

[DaveMatthews]

Rumour has it that a TQ motor is extremely quiet. Here's a list... https://www.tq-ebike.com/en/bikes/

I run a Giant/Yamaha PW motor and it is wonderfully quiet.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I run a Giant/Yamaha PW motor and it is wonderfully quiet.

Heh

 

[ruffruff]

Honestly, I don't think any of the top motor producers are noisy enough to ruin a ride.

I would look for a bike that meets your needs, is comfortable, has quality components and has a good warranty with a quality motor and forget about how noisy it is.
1. You will get use to it.
2. None of them are really that bad.
3. Over time you will hear the tires, chain and sprockets more than the motor.

Noise would not be much of a deciding factor for me.

 

[MinnBobber]

Are you totally sold on mid drive as a quality hub drive can be totally silent?
I am spoiled with my Stromers as I have been testing mid drives and they all are too noisy for my taste.
My hub motor is totally silent, allows for recharging battery when you brake and hub drive
chains and sprockets last WAY longer than mid drives…. Mids put 2X or 3X power thru the chain.
So, you may want to at least considering a hub bike??

FYI, I tested a Trek with TQ motor and it was quietest mid drive I have tested. Still noisier than hub but not bad.
The downside was the 250 W motor output felt whimpy compared to hub 500+.
I was hoping TQ would feel stronger but no …

Hub or mid-drive, I would pay extra special attention to how “natural “ it feels as many do not!! Natural feel is that you have 500+ watt legs.
Un-natural feel is that you are on an E scooter…

 

[jmillr]

Thanks for your thoughts. I think that a hub drive is not an option since I'm aiming to get another CVT such as the Enviolo. So far, the Specialized Como 4 IGH is the closest I've come to a 'natural' feeling e-bike. It may only be 250 W, but I won't be climbing any mountains where I live, and it was very quiet, quiet enough for me.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It may only be 250 W

The actual (peak) mechanical power you can get from the Specialized 2.0 motor is around 440 W. It roughly translates to 550 W peak electrical power (which is the typical marketing parameter given for hub-drive motors).

 

[AHicks]

The actual (peak) mechanical power you can get from the Specialized 2.0 motor is around 440 W. It roughly translates to 550 W peak electrical power (which is the typical marketing parameter given for hub-drive motors).

Except that 250w pushed to 550w peak can be pushed to 1000w peak with a 500w hub drive. Let's keep it apple vs. apples, oranges vs. oranges shall we? I have 3 bikes with generic 500w geared hubs, all of which have been converted to KT-22a controllers, all of which will pull 950-1000w indicated for a short sprint (e.g. crossing a busy road, climbing a short hill, catching up to a riding buddy, etc). There is no way on God's green earth you are going to match that kind of power with a 250w mid drive on level pavement......

 

[fooferdoggie]

Except that 250w pushed to 550w peak can be pushed to 1000w peak with a 500w hub drive. Let's keep it apple vs. apples, oranges vs. oranges shall we? I have 3 bikes with generic 500w geared hubs, all of which have been converted to KT-22a controllers, all of which will pull 950-1000w indicated for a short sprint (e.g. crossing a busy road, climbing a short hill, catching up to a riding buddy, etc). There is no way on God's green earth you are going to match that kind of power with a 250w mid drive on level pavement......

but you dont know how many watts that motor is actually putting out. since its not at the optional speed its not going to be an efficient boost of power. no one knows what the peak power the bosch motor can put out but even for my sick butt I can do a short sprint at 500 watts sometime 600 or 700 watts. it actually lifts the front wheel off the road. its actually hard to keep up the shifting to the acceleration.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

all of which have been converted to KT-22a controllers

The point is, e-bike like a Como does need to be converted to anything to get its 440 W mechanical; also, high power is not the essence of e-bikes such as Como. You pedal them
Al, you are talking the electrical, not mechanical power?

I can do a short sprint at 500 watts sometime 600 or 700 watts

Steve, remember that any reported power is electrical. Roughly multiply by 0.8 to get at the mechanical power.

 

[AHicks]

but you dont know how many watts that motor is actually putting out. since its not at the optional speed its not going to be an efficient boost of power. no one knows what the peak power the bosch motor can put out but even for my sick butt I can do a short sprint at 500 watts sometime 600 or 700 watts. it actually lifts the front wheel off the road. its actually hard to keep up the shifting to the acceleration.

I know EXACTLY how many watts my hub drive is putting out at ANY given moment as it's read from a full time, real time watt meter that's a primary function of the display. Same story with the mid drives I own.

And lifting your front wheel while in a granny gear with a 250w motor is no sign of big power.

All else being equal, the fact you need to try keeping up with the shifting, especially at lower speeds, is exactly why a geared hub will blow you away in a race to 10mph.

The point is, e-bike like a Como does need to be converted to anything to get its 440 W mechanical; also, high power is not the essence of e-bikes such as Como. You pedal them
Al, you are talking the electrical, not mechanical power?

Steve, remember that any reported power is electrical. Roughly multiply by 0.8 to get at the mechanical power.

I'm not even going to step into the mechanical vs. electrical power discussion. It's a moot point regarding this discusion comparing the relative output of a 250 watt mid drive motor to a 500 watt rear hub as compared on a flat level road.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I know EXACTLY how many watts my hub drive is putting out at ANY given moment as it's read from a full time, real time watt meter that's a primary function of the display. Same story with the mid drives I own.

And lifting your front wheel while in a granny gear with a 250w motor is no sign of big power.

All else being equal, the fact you need to try keeping up with the shifting, especially at lower speeds, is exactly why a geared hub will blow you away in a race to 10mph.



I'm not even going to step into the mechanical vs. electrical power discussion. It's a moot point regarding this discusion comparing the relative output of a 250 watt mid drive motor to a 500 watt rear hub as compared on a flat level road.

well if you stop at 10 mph who knows? I go to about 20 mph. I learned how to accelerate fast when riding recumbents. I would blow away everyone accelerating by using the gears. I can only get the front end off the Road if I put out 600 watts or more only tour. the motor would to too much if I did it in higher assist. I never try to accelerate from a stop with full assist . its not like it used to be with light bikes it takes a lot of effort on both the motor and me to get the front end off with a 70 pound bike. 10mph is about 1 pedal revolution. its actually harder to accelerate fast on the mid drive because yo cant shift fast enough you use all the gear in about 3/4 of a pedal stroke at most where on the recumbent it was one full revolution.

 

[AHicks]

well if you stop at 10 mph who knows? I go to about 20 mph. I learned how to accelerate fast when riding recumbents. I would blow away everyone accelerating by using the gears. I can only get the front end off the Road if I put out 600 watts or more only tour. the motor would to too much if I did it in higher assist. I never try to accelerate from a stop with full assist . its not like it used to be with light bikes it takes a lot of effort on both the motor and me to get the front end off with a 70 pound bike. 10mph is about 1 pedal revolution. its actually harder to accelerate fast on the mid drive because yo cant shift fast enough you use all the gear in about 3/4 of a pedal stroke at most where on the recumbent it was one full revolution.

You've just illustrated my point exactly. Using/matching the effort required on a mid drive for best acceleration to 10mph, the geared hub won't need to be shifted as often or as accurately - making it MUCH quicker, not to mention easier to accelerate from a stop to 10mph.

Now put a heavy rider on a bike facing a steep hill? Things change rather quickly..... we both know that.

 

[fooferdoggie]

You've just illustrated my point exactly. Using/matching the effort required on a mid drive for best acceleration to 10mph, the geared hub won't need to be shifted as often or as accurately - making it MUCH quicker, not to mention easier to accelerate from a stop to 10mph.

Now put a heavy rider on a bike facing a steep hill? Things change rather quickly..... we both know that.

not sure I wil test tomorrow. like I said it may only be two petal strokes to get to 10mph. I don't consider 10mph an important thing. I try for 20mph crossing the street. ( much rather be responsible for putting the effort in) it is much more rewarding for this old man.

 

[AHicks]

I had 1st generation aventon level throttle from dead stop doesn't work I have to pedal to get it moving then push trigger for a hub motor tho it's quite.
My favorite is Brose TF motor on my Bulls it's the quitest by far compared to all premium motors I compared it with back in March 2020. Now days I have no idea what brand motor is the quitest.

That was a temporary "better idea" that was so bad in practice, generating so many complaints, most manf's decided to scrap it. Most now use throttle available from a dead stop.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I'm not even going to step into the mechanical vs. electrical power discussion. It's a moot point regarding this discusion comparing the relative output of a 250 watt mid drive motor to a 500 watt rear hub as compared on a flat level road.

Al, I just want to say it is not necessarily the (electrical) power that matters in electrically assisted cycling. A high power hub-drive e-bike could be a good option for commuters who want to reach their destination fast and with the least effort (why not to ride on the throttle anyway?) A Direct Drive motor could be even better! My third e-bike has a "250 W" 500 Wh peak (electrical) power AKM geared hub-drive motor. Yes, it is so pleasant to ride it at 32 km/h (20 mph) on the flat and not worry at all. One of the reasons I do not ride it anymore is that e-bike was giving me no workout, and was not good on significant climbs.

The 250 W (nominal) mid-drive motors are bashed by those who are fond of "high power". My point is "250 Wh" is just a legal term. Depending on the motor, you can get, for example, 565 W of mechanical power (around 725 Wh electrical) from the Specialized 2.2 "250 Wh" mid-drive motor. Add to it the natural pedalling experience and the ability of climbing extremely steep long hills. The great thing about a good mid-drive is its ability to power the e-bike at both very low or high speed without the need of using any throttle. And how do geared hub-drives fare on demanding long climbs?

 

[tomjasz]

Da Bull is getting bubbles.

Dude, rotate your camera for many photos.