Quietest motor?

[jmillr]

Hi everyone, first time poster with questions about e-bike mid-drive motor noise.

First, background/context:

• I am a retired male in my late 60s, six foot tall, 180 lbs, not terribly fit, but in reasonably good health
• I've ridden regular bicycles for over sixty years, however, the last ten years I've ridden a Jamis Commuter 4 which has a NuVinci geared hub and I'm unwilling to return to a derailleur system
• I'm looking for an e-bike so that I can explore the surrounding countryside in SE Michigan (rolling hills, no mountains) and improve my fitness while doing so
• My budget is $3k - $6k, but I'd like to stay under $5k if possible
• At the moment, I'm strongly considering the Evelo Atlas or Omega, Gazelle Ultimate C380+, or Specialized Como or Vado, but am open to suggestions

I've done quite a bit of research on e-bikes, but the issue of motor noise seems remarkably difficult to resolve. Quick anecdote: I went to my lbs and test-rode three e-bikes (a Gazelle, a Riese & Mueller, and something else I don't recall). I loved the exhilaration of being assisted while pedaling (or not, with the throttle), but as I rode home on my Jamis, I realized how pleasant it was without the sound of the motor.

So, I would really appreciate any thoughts any of you may have on the issue of motor noise. Here are some of the questions that currently occupy my brain:

• Do you get used to motor noise? Or does it not bother you?
• Many here talk about staying mainly in pedal assist mode 1 to extend the battery; is the motor also quieter in the lower assist modes?
• Might Active Noise Cancelling earbuds help?
• Is the Brose motor (with its internal belt) the quietest?
• Is motor noise proportional to power output (meaning, is a 250 W motor in general quieter than a 750 W motor)?

I compared Court’s reviews of the Omega and the Atlas, and it sounded to me like the Bafang motor on the Atlas was louder (links are set to the place in review where motor sounds are most noticeable):

(Omega motor sound, ignore the Automatiq auto-shifting sound)

(Atlas motor sound)

However, a representative from Evelo responded to this by saying he has both bikes and to him the Atlas is quieter. Which just goes to show how difficult this is to evaluate.

I understand that these questions are extremely subjective, and answers/opinions vary considerably based on the design of the bike, the road conditions, slope of the terrain, how hard one is pedaling (or which cadence is being used in the case of the Automatiq), etc.

Still, what I'm basically asking is this: Given that I would like the sound of the motor to intrude on me (and my potential cycling mates) as little as possible, what bikes should I be considering that also include an interally geared hub (probably Enviolo), a relatively upright riding position, able to take on easy off-road trails if needed, class 3 with throttle would be a plus.

Thanks in advance for whatever you would like to share about this vexing issue.

 

[fooferdoggie]

bosch is sure not quiet but you get used to it it does not drown out sounds around you really. but if you want quiet go With the specialized. noise is usually worse the slower you peddle. I got used to it and tune it out. but I ride a crap ton too. it's more the motor design that create the noise.

 

[jmillr]

I'm hoping to drive out to a Specialized dealer that has the Como and Vado in stock to test ride them this weekend. It also has the Mastermind system to help tune the ride, and the rear radar system too.

 

[linklemming]

I put ALOT of value on a quiet motor. You do get used to the noise but its really nice when you dont hear it.

Of all the motors (Brose, Yamaha, Shimano, Bosc) I have tested, Brose is the quietest. As such all of the factory mid-drives I have bought have been Brose. The Specialized Vados are wonderful bikes if you are willing to spend the $$.

All the motors definately get noisier as you up the power.

Choices get smaller if you dont want a derailler. Specialized does have a Vado with IGH and gates belt and I bet thats one sweet ride.

As far as Evelo, the Atlas with the M600 would be my choice simply because of the Bafang m600 motor. While it may not be the quietest, its a very popular motor so it should be easy to get a replacement when needed.

If you can DIY and can live without torque assist, a BBSHD is a great motor (its onpar or even better than the Brose noisewise, even at max power)

Motor noise tends to go away as you go faster. I hear it most when climbing at lower speeds

 

[BlackHand]

Do you get used to motor noise? Or does it not bother you?

Yes. I mostly don't think about it much while riding, but it is not silent. FYI I'm on a last gen Bosch motor

Many here talk about staying mainly in pedal assist mode 1 to extend the battery; is the motor also quieter in the lower assist modes?

In general, yes. The highest assist mode has a definite whine in it. If you're grinding with low cadence up a steep hill you'll hear the motor more. Also certain cadence ranges seem to have worse/better harmonics than others.

Might Active Noise Cancelling earbuds help?

Sure, but... could also mask cars and other stuff that might kill you. Honestly I find wind noise a lot louder when riding at speed

Is the Brose motor (with its internal belt) the quietest?

It does have that rep. The new TQ hpr50 is marketed as the quietest, and reviews mostly confirm its quiet(but not silent). Dont think youll find a bike with that motor and a geared hub in your budget though.

Is motor noise proportional to power output (meaning, is a 250 W motor in general quieter than a 750 W motor)?

No. At least not proportional to the marketed watt ratings which are pretty meaningless.

You have a decent list there and Evelo is one of the few direct to consumer brands with a good return policy.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Is the Brose motor (with its internal belt) the quietest?

Specialized Como or Vado

As a Specialized fan, I have to sadly say the latest generation of Specialized/Brose motors (2022-2023 Mastermind) is not silent anymore. The previous generation motors were indeed totally silent. With the latest generation, you can actually hear the Specialized/Brose motor, especially at some cadence at low speed in silent environment (such as a forest). The reason of the design change was the notorious damage to the motor drive belt after prolonged use (mine happened past 8,000 miles or 3 years; it cost me $1,000 to replace the out-of-warranty motor).

Now, you say the motor noise is a deal breaker for you (or it sounds so). Well, taken into account wind, urban or tyre noise, you can get used to the motor noise. One of my e-bikes, Specialized Vado SL is equipped with the Specialized/Mahle SL 1.1 motor, which is perceived as unpleasantly noisy (high pitch whine) by many riders. On my SL ride of yesterday, I noticed the sound I could hear were my winter tyres, and I actually didn't hear the motor noise itself!

P.S. I would not use any Active Noise Cancelling earbuds on a ride. They make you isolated from the ambient noise and it is one of the things that might get you killed. (Example: a car approaching fast from a side street: no bike radar can detect it).

 

[indianajo]

My geared hub drive makes zero noise when I'm not using power. That is 80% of the time.
When I am grinding up a steep hill with 60 lb groceries & full power it hums a little like a trolley car motor. Much quieter than my breath at that time.

 

[AHicks]

I have an Atlas, and while you can hear it run going down a quiet trail, I can also hear the crickets chirping along side the road in the evenings without any trouble. If you are riding next to traffic or in the wind, that traffic/wind will easily cover up the noise of this motor. The noise is NOT objectionable. That noise from the original motors was a concern here as well. I'm picky about that sort of noise as well, and I'm fine with what's going on here.

I will say the EARLY M600's DID have a reputation for being noisy. So much so there was an aftermarket (PEEK) gear sold that would quiet the motor. I don't know what's been changed on these newer production Atlas motors, nobody has said a thing, but I will guarantee you they are WAY quieter than the original M600's were. -Al

 

[PSm]

I do a lot of riding about, and tbh I can pretty much always hear the whirring of the e-bike motors and bike chains. My two e-bikes with derailleurs and hub motors are relatively noisy. My single speed e-bike with belt drive is almost completely silent in lower assist levels, and only mildly noticeable at higher assist.

I can always hear the mid drives and higher powered moped like e-bikes around, much, much noisier.

Interested to hear if anyone else comes up with a good solution for you.

 

[fooferdoggie]

tires can be really noisy too.

 

[ruffruff]

Of the one's I've ridden extensively here is my subjective list of quietest to loudest.
1.Yamah PW series
2. Shimano Steps
3. Bosch

None of the even the Bosch were so loud as to annoy me while riding, you get use to it.
Just my personal thought, but I'd not wear headphones to cancel the noise, I like to be aware of my surroundings/noises.

On your list, I have the Gazelle, great bike.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

1.Yamah PW series

Quiet? Oh, I do not think so. The Giant e-bike equipped with Yamaha PW-X2 is noisy. Pay attention to the part when the e-MTB rides off-road and the tyre noise gets muted.

 

[linklemming]

Quiet? Oh, I do not think so. The Giant e-bike equipped with Yamaha PW-X2 is noisy. Pay attention to the part when the e-MTB rides off-road and the tyre noise gets muted.

I agree with ruffruff here on the quietness of the Yamaha PW Series. Its second on my list behind the Brose.

I find sound clips of motor noise to be useless and nowhere near what I experience in real life. In addition, the noise can be affected by so many things like microphone/gains/software and mounting so trying to compare them is useless unless in the same video and even then......

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I agree with ruffruff here on the quietness of the Yamaha PW Series. Its second on my list behind the Brose.

I find sound clips of motor noise to be useless and nowhere near what I experience in real life. In addition, the noise can be affected by so many things like microphone/gains/software and mounting.

You heard two e-bikes with noise recorded with the same gear, the same day.

 

[linklemming]

You heard two e-bikes with noise recorded with the same gear, the same day.

Google is your friend, perhaps doesnt meet your strict requirements (same day). Could you explain how time of day/temp/pressure/clouds would affect this

Even then, its best to ride them and see for yourself. When I first tried a Brose, my search was over

 

[teskow]

I have a Ride1Up "Prodigy" with the Brose motor and it is as near silent as they come. I love this bike and the price is right too.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

When I first tried a Brose, my search was over

I only wonder whether Brose followed the suit (by modifying their current motors the way they did it for Specialized). I am on a new Specialized 1.2s (Brose TF) motor of the older generation and am happy. It was a real surprise to find out the Tero with a new gen Brose motor was not silent.

 

[tomjasz]

It was a real surprise

You wouldn't be so surprised if you weren't so arrogant and self-aggrandizing. We don't expect anyone to know it all, even if you think you do...

 

[jmillr]

Thanks, everyone, for your comments. I test-rode a Como 4 IGH and a Vado 5 IGH today; the main difference besides frame geometry was manual vs. Automatiq. The Como 4 was almost completely silent; I was very pleasantly surprised. The Vado 5 wasn't loud, but motor noise was more noticeable than the Como 4. I felt very much 'at home' with the Como 4 since I'm so used to manually shifting my Jamis with the Nuvinci hub.

The closest competition now, in my mind, is the Evelo Atlas. But I hesitate to order one, assemble it, and test ride it only to discover that the sound is too much (or some other issue) and then disassemble it, repack it, and send it back. I am considering it though.

I do wish the Prodigy came with an IGH and belt drive.

Thanks again for all the comments, it has been very helpful. I do understand how subjective this issue it, but it also seems that as long as the motor is 'relatively' quiet, I will 'get used to it' and still enjoy the rides.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Interesting findings, @jmillr!

he Como 4 was almost completely silent; I was very pleasantly surprised. The Vado 5 wasn't loud, but motor noise was more noticeable than the Como 4.

Could that impression come from the chain and freehub ratchet noise? Because motors on both e-bikes belong to the same new line.