Quietest motor?

[AHicks]

Al, I just want to say it is not necessarily the (electrical) power that matters in electrically assisted cycling. A high power hub-drive e-bike could be a good option for commuters who want to reach their destination fast and with the least effort (why not to ride on the throttle anyway?) A Direct Drive motor could be even better! My third e-bike has a "250 W" 500 Wh peak (electrical) power AKM geared hub-drive motor. Yes, it is so pleasant to ride it at 32 km/h (20 mph) on the flat and not worry at all. One of the reasons I do not ride it anymore is that e-bike was giving me no workout, and was not good on significant climbs.

The 250 W (nominal) mid-drive motors are bashed by those who are fond of "high power". My point is "250 Wh" is just a legal term. Depending on the motor, you can get, for example, 565 W of mechanical power (around 725 Wh electrical) from the Specialized 2.2 "250 Wh" mid-drive motor. Add to it the natural pedalling experience and the ability of climbing extremely steep long hills. The great thing about a good mid-drive is its ability to power the e-bike at both very low or high speed without the need of using any throttle. And how do geared hub-drives fare on demanding long climbs?

My friend, we were not discussing long climbs. You're preaching to the choir here regarding those (I have 2 mid drives (both w/throttles) for riding in another area I frequent, where with my weight they do an awesome job in an area with fairly challenging coastal hills). I'm a firm believer in mid drives when any sort of steep or long hill is in play. Lets not make this about YOUR bikes, or the areas YOU ride. We were discussing, if you'll go back and check, a situation described as "countryside in SE Michigan (rolling hills, no mountains)". This happens to be an area I'm pretty familiar with, as I've spent most of my 70+ years living here.....

And please stop ASSuming throttle equipped bikes are primarily powered using that method. Sure some do (they have that option, why shouldn't they?), but MOST riders of throttle equipped bikes are just like others on bikes, and looking for some exercise.... they just have an option you don't!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

they just have an option you don't!

My cranks are my throttle
The only thing I wanted to convey is "250 W" mid-drives are in fact strong motors.

 

[AHicks]

My cranks are my throttle
The only thing I wanted to convey is "250 W" mid-drives are in fact strong motors.

And I'm not denying that - only pointing out they are NOT the most power available....

 

[Stefan Mikes]

And I'm not denying that - only pointing out they are NOT the most power available....

Al, from what I hear the maximum allowed nominal power of a motor in the U.S. is 750 Wh but it is no meaning to discuss it
Some people are power hungry. Some people prefer cycling, and let us stay in our different trenches

 

[Stefan Mikes]

with its 3rd Brose

Ya. Third motor in a row.
Brose is most silent if off

 

[fooferdoggie]

Got it Da Bull with its 3rd Brose the most silent quietest ebike motor

its really quite between motors.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I am Brose all the way bro.

I am Specialized/Brose on one of my e-bikes.

I got 4k miles on the 2nd on this new Brose TF I'm expecting trouble free miles for at least 3k of off road riding and pressure washing.

I got 8k miles on my first Specialized 1.2s (Brose TF). Now, am on the second motor.

I love my Brose. It's the quietest motor.

It is. The drive belt tends break though.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Locking rear wheel is done with the rear brakes. Just for Stefan to understand the common failure of belt in my Brose motor.

I understand now, Rome.
In case my new Spec/Brose motor fails post-warranty, I will certainly find a motor repair service. $1,000 for a new motor is too much

 

[fooferdoggie]

ok I went and tested the acceleration. I am only feeling so so today and only managed a burst of about 300 watts. but on tour and the right cog I hit 12 mph in two petal strokes in the count of two. I stopped peddling as it takes the system a second to catch up. In sport it was about 1.5 pedal strokes. so thats some pretty good acceleration. more then I need and plenty to get across a street.

 

[ruffruff]

Am I reading this right? Your Brose motors only last 1000 miles?

 

[DaveMatthews]

Am I reading this right? Your Brose motors only last 1000 miles?

Maybe it needs to be washed more carefully...
Brose before hose.















It was a joke OK???

 

[ruffruff]

1st one failed at 700 miles

Is it the belt failing?

 

[AHicks]

ok I went and tested the acceleration. I am only feeling so so today and only managed a burst of about 300 watts. but on tour and the right cog I hit 12 mph in two petal strokes in the count of two. I stopped peddling as it takes the system a second to catch up. In sport it was about 1.5 pedal strokes. so thats some pretty good acceleration. more then I need and plenty to get across a street.

So imagine that your bike had several times the power that it has? Maybe you could hit 10mph in half a pedal stroke when/if you wanted to? Wouldn't that be wonderful? Granted, it's not something you would need/use every day, or even every week. You could just know accleration like that is available on demand.....

 

[PSm]

I know EXACTLY how many watts my hub drive is putting out at ANY given moment as it's read from a full time, real time watt meter that's a primary function of the display. Same story with the mid drives I own.

Same here! I’m really glad I modified my Ride1UP Roadster to use an EggRider display, with its display and customizability of power level at each PAS level. Now I know exactly the real time watts output from my rear hub motor - with my settings from off, to 20 watts in PAS1, 100 watts in PAS3, up to 350 watts in PAS8 and 500 watts in PAS9.

Perfect for my use scenarios, such as PAS1 trying to hypermile and use the most of my own effort possible and build strength and endurance, or PAS8 trying to sprint and maximize average/top speeds to sometimes (privately) beat analog pro bike racer Strava KOM times and feel what the speeds are like for them, or PAS3 for an intermediate level assist and ride.

 

[mschwett]

Maybe it needs to be washed more carefully...
Brose before hose.















It was a joke OK???

OMG lol i wish i could upvote this post 100 times.

 

[mschwett]

maybe we need a motor lifespan poll. or maybe there already was one, i’ll look. but if a non-consumable component (chain, pads, rotors, cogs) of one of my bicycles only last 1,000 miles (or 5,000 miles!) i’d be very, very disappointed, quiet or not!!

i’m not a small guy, and i ride my bikes hard in demanding conditions (coastal fog, wind blown sand, steep urban grades, gravel) but i don’t use the motor that often, so i suppose my many thousands of miles equate to far less motor wear.

 

[fooferdoggie]

So imagine that your bike had several times the power that it has? Maybe you could hit 10mph in half a pedal stroke when/if you wanted to? Wouldn't that be wonderful? Granted, it's not something you would need/use every day, or even every week. You could just know accleration like that is available on demand.....

imagine strapping a engine onto the bike and hitting the throttle? having the bike hit 10 mph with such little import would take the bike experience out of it and it would become a scooter experience.

 

[AHicks]

imagine strapping a engine onto the bike and hitting the throttle? having the bike hit 10 mph with such little import would take the bike experience out of it and it would become a scooter experience.

Just like life with a throttle equipped bike, you just can't seem to strap that tiny little bean of yours around the idea that because you have excess power doesn't mean you have to use it. The reality is, it's there only if/when you want it......

My Bafang Ultra based bike, rated for up to 30a/1500w, is not likely using any more power than what you would use with your 250w bike on an average ride. At my normal cruise speeds, using the normal PAS level I enjoy riding with, I'm running anywhere from less than 100w to maybe 250w, with the average being somewhere between those 2 values. If you want to call that a "scooter experience" you go for it. That's on you and your lack of experience....

 

[fooferdoggie]

Just like life with a throttle equipped bike, you just can't seem to strap that tiny little bean of yours around the idea that because you have excess power doesn't mean you have to use it. The reality is, it's there only if/when you want it......

My Bafang Ultra based bike, rated for up to 30a/1500w, is not likely using any more power than what you would use with your 250w bike on an average ride. At my normal cruise speeds, using the normal PAS level I enjoy riding with, I'm running anywhere from less than 100w to maybe 250w, with the average being somewhere between those 2 values. If you want to call that a "scooter experience" you go for it. That's on you and your lack of experience....

you were claiming your hub drive motor could do 0-10 in less time thats what I tested out. then you came up with a 1/2 petal stroke getting you to 10mph. me that would not be a good riding experience for me it would be more motor then me it would not feel natural. it has northing to do with throttles or huge mid drives. I will leave those to you. why would I need a bigger motor when I can almost never max out the bosch. When I have put out 700 watts the motor was still putting power out for short periods. Only when I was putting out 550 watts continuously did the motor hit its limit .I had to work so hard to hit its limit that its almost impossible to use that much power for me. only flying up super steep hills would need more power I have found. if I was climbing 18% grades for long periods the bosch make It hard work. but I can go up short ones without even getting close to the max output and over 12mph. thats plenty fast for me. hell the wife and I just managed a 23% grade on our bosch powered tandem. a big motor would rip the chain right off.

 

[AHicks]

you were claiming your hub drive motor could do 0-10 in less time thats what I tested out. then you came up with a 1/2 petal stroke getting you to 10mph. me that would not be a good riding experience for me it would be more motor then me it would not feel natural. it has northing to do with throttles or huge mid drives. I will leave those to you. why would I need a bigger motor when I can almost never max out the bosch. When I have put out 700 watts the motor was still putting power out for short periods. Only when I was putting out 550 watts continuously did the motor hit its limit .I had to work so hard to hit its limit that its almost impossible to use that much power for me. only flying up super steep hills would need more power I have found. if I was climbing 18% grades for long periods the bosch make It hard work. but I can go up short ones without even getting close to the max output and over 12mph. thats plenty fast for me. hell the wife and I just managed a 23% grade on our bosch powered tandem. a big motor would rip the chain right off.

On the bold, FWI, I would NEVER make a claim like that for me personally. That was addressing YOUR claim of, and I'm quoting you here "I hit 12 mph in two petal strokes in the count of two." you made earlier. I mentioned what I did thinking what might happen if you had several times the power you have. I mean, logically, that SHOULD mean that you should be able to accelerate even faster than "I hit 12 mph in two petal strokes in the count of two" right?

Yes, I get the need for more power when dealing with more weight and/or steeper hills. That's why I own/can justify an Ultra powered bike. I DO use that power on occasion.....

Oh, and I wasn't talking about MY geared hub drive bike being faster than a mid drive when accelerating from a stop to 10 mph, I was talking about ANY 500w geared hub drive bike accelerating faster (0-10mph) than a mid drive - with the exact reason you listed in mind. You can't stay up with the mid drive need to be shifted - where the hub drive likely won't even need to be shifted......