Questions for the Juggernaut Ultra Duo 2

[NJMalamuteExplorer]

Hey guys, first time ebike buyer and I had some questions for anyone who might have the Juggernaut Ultra Duo 2.
A-bit about me, I've had maybe 2 bikes in my life, fat bikes. 6' tall ~330lb's with some load at times taking it over that.
(Sorry in advance if these questions are silly basic ebike/bike questions)

-So first question, the bike says it has a 1000W bafang ultra m620 mid drive motor -> but the speed and power can either be limited to 19mph/500W or unlimited? Can I switch between limited / unlimited afterwards? Or is it a different mid drive motor?(At the states our limit for ebikes is 750W, so i do not know if 500W is underpowered)

-Second question, I'm thinking of grabbing the camo color which allows for 27.5x3 MTB wheels. MTB wheels seem like the better bet for my things but would I be able to switch between 27.5X3 and 26X4 fat wheels afterwards without needing to change the fork? Do the wheels change the load capacity? (the bike says 380lb load)

-Third question, I've seen some issues with the bafang motors in the forums, don't exactly understand what the problem is with them. Is it something that will effect new models or is it just older models?

-Fourth question, if it's limited to 19mph and 500W but has a 1000W motor will it just do it's best to max at 19mph and stay there?

Thanks in advance.

 

[AHicks]

I'm the same size you are, 71 years old, and ride daily. Have a very similar bike to the one you're asking about. Mine is 2 years old now, so it has the older M620 UART based motor that's user adjustable. The newer motor is CANBUS based and though nearly identical to the old motor, nearly all of the adjustments are now locked down, not adjustable.

The M620 is an absolute torque monster. I say this because how the bike manf. have it rated may have a lot to do with legal requirements. What you need to know is that the motor has serious grunt....

Under powered is a serious possibility for guys our size in the hills. Been there....
However, in addition to the size of the motor, to determine hill climbing ability, you HAVE to consider the drive type. A 500 watt geared hub drive may not get the job done when you encounter bigger hills. A 500w mid drive, because it's able to use the gears in the bike's drive train, will generally be a great climber. Further, the M620, with nearly 3 times the power of a 500 watt motor, will climb about anything, and because of the amount of torque it has on tap, will be far less fussy about what gear it's in (within reason). That "feature" makes it much easier to ride..... hills or not.

Unlike the "custom built" hype you see on some websites, it's difficult to switch back and forth from 27.5" wheels to the 26" fatty type (wide) wheels. You're correct in the difference in the front forks, but that same issue also occurs in the back, where the 27.5" wheels require a 135mm frame width, and the fatty's are 170-190mm wide. The conversion in back requires a custom wheel that's pretty much impossible to find, and will be pretty expensive when purchased one part at a time. It amounts to a 27.5" rim that's been laced to a fatty rear hub. My bike was purchased as a fatty, and I didn't care for it, opting to convert to 27.5" rims. I ended up buying all the bits required, then lacing it up myself. Cost for the conversion was nearly 1000. (that's a thousand, not a mis-print). The big price was due to the fact I was working on a torque monster that required heavy duty everything, further enhanced by requirements for my size...... My point is, you need to pay serious attention to your riding requirements and select the size you want to stay with. I know the website hints you can convert, but the required size rims are NEVER in stock. AFTER the sale, they're going to tell you they don't sell rims separately. Been here too.....with THIS company.

As far as max speed, you can easily control how fast you are going - UP TO the max allowed mph. At that point the motor's power will quickly taper off. Think governor if you are familiar.... -Al

 

[NJMalamuteExplorer]

I'm the same size you are, 71 years old, and ride daily. Have a very similar bike to the one you're asking about. Mine is 2 years old now, so it has the older M620 UART based motor that's user adjustable. The newer motor is CANBUS based and though nearly identical to the old motor, nearly all of the adjustments are now locked down, not adjustable.

The M620 is an absolute torque monster. I say this because how the bike manf. have it rated may have a lot to do with legal requirements. What you need to know is that the motor has serious grunt....

Under powered is a serious possibility for guys our size in the hills. Been there....
However, in addition to the size of the motor, to determine hill climbing ability, you HAVE to consider the drive type. A 500 watt geared hub drive may not get the job done when you encounter bigger hills. A 500w mid drive, because it's able to use the gears in the bike's drive train, will generally be a great climber. Further, the M620, with nearly 3 times the power of a 500 watt motor, will climb about anything, and because of the amount of torque it has on tap, will be far less fussy about what gear it's in (within reason). That "feature" makes it much easier to ride..... hills or not.

Unlike the "custom built" hype you see on some websites, it's difficult to switch back and forth from 27.5" wheels to the 26" fatty type (wide) wheels. You're correct in the difference in the front forks, but that same issue also occurs in the back, where the 27.5" wheels require a 135mm frame width, and the fatty's are 170-190mm wide. The conversion in back requires a custom wheel that's pretty much impossible to find, and will be pretty expensive when purchased one part at a time. It amounts to a 27.5" rim that's been laced to a fatty rear hub. My bike was purchased as a fatty, and I didn't care for it, opting to convert to 27.5" rims. I ended up buying all the bits required, then lacing it up myself. Cost for the conversion was nearly 1000. (that's a thousand, not a mis-print). The big price was due to the fact I was working on a torque monster that required heavy duty everything, further enhanced by requirements for my size...... My point is, you need to pay serious attention to your riding requirements and select the size you want to stay with. I know the website hints you can convert, but the required size rims are NEVER in stock. AFTER the sale, they're going to tell you they don't sell rims separately. Been here too.....with THIS company.

As far as max speed, you can easily control how fast you are going - UP TO the max allowed mph. At that point the motor's power will quickly taper off. Think governor if you are familiar.... -Al

Much appreciated the response.

So on your end did you prefer the 27.5 rims compared to the fat wheels after converting them? What type of surface do you mainly use them on? The bike on the website seems to be primarily a fat tire bike (the camo version is the only one with the ability to switch to MTB tires, so maybe the fat tires are the safe bet).
In terms of the M620 motor, so it would use the full torque available even if it's limited to 500W? or use the half available torque since it's limited to 500W from the max of 1000W.
I'm still on the fence between limited and unlimited. Is it even possible to go from limited to unlimited since the new motors are locked down? How much does that limit?

Again thanks in advance!

 

[AHicks]

My use is mostly pavement (90-95%) with occasional use on hard packed dirt or maybe hard packed gravel. Knobby tires are noisy on pavement, and despite 2 different street treads I tried, I didn't care for them either. So it was 27.5 for me, and with about 1000 miles on the conversion, I'm very happy with the bike now. I'm running Schwalbe Super Moto-X tires in the 27.5x2.8" size. These tires have very low rolling resistance (especially when compared to the fatty's), run well at low pressures (I'm using 25psi in the rear, and 20 in the front for an idea of how low), and because of these low pressures, they ride really well.

If you see an M620 advertised at 500 watts, it's done tongue in cheek. That rating is complete BS. The newer M620 motors, like you would be getting here, ARE locked down.

Sorry, not familiar with limited vs. unlimited.

 

[NJMalamuteExplorer]

Appreciate the help, guess I'll focus with the MTB tires (27.5X3) and see if anyone knows more about their limited vs unlimited option and how it works.

 

[MartsEbike]

-So first question, the bike says it has a 1000W bafang ultra m620 mid drive motor -> but the speed and power can either be limited to 19mph/500W or unlimited? Can I switch between limited / unlimited afterwards? Or is it a different mid drive motor?(At the states our limit for ebikes is 750W, so i do not know if 500W is underpowered)

500w isn't exactly underpowered - it's twice the power of anything available in Europe, but more is more... These are quite heavy bikes too!... On the programmable Ultras (uart based) you can set for both power and speed. But chances are you'll receive a canbus based motor, and it's not currently possible to change the settings on these motors like you can on the uart based motors. Well, you maybe able to change the speed setting on the screen settings, but not the actual power (watts) which is programmed on the firmware. This kind of answers your third question too.

If it only has half the power available I'd expect it to only have half the torque.

The Ultra motors peak at 1500w, so limiting them to 500w is losing out on a fair bit of potential.

 

[AHicks]

Appreciate the help, guess I'll focus with the MTB tires (27.5X3) and see if anyone knows more about their limited vs unlimited option and how it works.

View attachment 125289

On the motor option, there is no way I would order that 19mph/500 watt option.

 

[NJMalamuteExplorer]

I'll wait to get in contact with them I guess tomorrow to find out if I can make the limited to unlimited myself if i want, otherwise the unlimited option it is.

 

[AHicks]

I'll wait to get in contact with them I guess tomorrow to find out if I can make the limited to unlimited myself if i want, otherwise the unlimited option it is.

I can make a pretty safe bet on the answer, but I'd like to hear what they have to say.

 

[Ninja_Surgeon]

I know for certain this bike doesn't have a CANBUS motor so that's probably fantastic news for you OP. Also as it's an electric motor you get tons of torque right off the bat so I don't see the power being limited impacting the torque output, at least from all the power:torque graphs I see online.

As per wheelsets and swapping, I am going to guess if they offer the bike with 27.5x4 and 26x4 versions the frame and fork are probably compatible with both of those wheel sizes. The tough part from looking at the specs on the Biktrix website would be finding a wheelset with that 135mm QR front hub and 197mm Thru axle rear hub. Probably not impossible and the problem can be solved by throwing money at it ie: getting rims and hubs separate and then getting wheels built. I also don't think wheelset would impact the bike's weight capacity.

 

[AHicks]

I know for certain this bike doesn't have a CANBUS motor so that's probably fantastic news for you OP. Also as it's an electric motor you get tons of torque right off the bat so I don't see the power being limited impacting the torque output, at least from all the power:torque graphs I see online.

As per wheelsets and swapping, I am going to guess if they offer the bike with 27.5x4 and 26x4 versions the frame and fork are probably compatible with both of those wheel sizes. The tough part from looking at the specs on the Biktrix website would be finding a wheelset with that 135mm QR front hub and 197mm Thru axle rear hub. Probably not impossible and the problem can be solved by throwing money at it ie: getting rims and hubs separate and then getting wheels built. I also don't think wheelset would impact the bike's weight capacity.

Please forgive me for asking, but I'd like to know how you know this? Please confirm you are speaking of the Bafang M620, NOT the BBSHD....

 

[Ninja_Surgeon]

Please forgive me for asking, but I'd like to know how you know this? Please confirm you are speaking of the Bafang M620, NOT the BBSHD....

I have my sources and I know I am talking on the M620. They also seem to be pretty transparent about their CANBUS bikes and Non-CANBUS - take a look at the Monte Capro Ultra bike specs section compared to say the Ultra Duo page. And I would imagine their support would be able to let you know and confirm or deny the motor protocol.

 

[AHicks]

Monte Capro Ultra motor web site is showing in specs (a moment ago) :

MOTOR

Canbus Bafang Ultra M620

Monte Capro Ultra

The Monte Capro Ultra is our most ambitious full-suspension eBike yet. Featuring a premium carbon fibre frame and top-of-the-line components. Powered by the Bafang Ultra M620 mid-drive motor with 160nm of torque combined with a super lightweight frame and you've got the best performance on the...

www.biktrix.com

I see nothing referencing Canbus vs. Uart on the Ultra Duo pages

Multi-Purpose

Buy USA's Best Multi-Purpose Bikes Online ✔ Custom Built ✔ Free Shipping ✔ Lifetime Warranty ✔ Direct Support. Get a Customized Biktrix eBike Today!

www.biktrix.com

Biktrix Juggernaut Ultra Duo 3 Electric Bike

Shop one of the longest range electric bike. With up to 2028Wh of battery storage, ranges of 100 miles are within your reach.

www.biktrix.com

 

[NJMalamuteExplorer]

So I got this message from support

Hi,

Thank you for your email.

Please be advised that some of our bikes have the feature to change the speed and power through the display.

You may check some information on this link https://biktrix.stonly.com/kb/guide...kes-does-biktrix-sell-zbB866x9HG/Steps/956643

If you are limiting the maximum speed on your eBike (from its original capabilities) due to regulatory requirements the bike will still be able to deliver the same low-to-mid-end Torque but as it approaches the maximum speed it will start reducing the power delivery.

Practically, this means that you will still be able to climb that steep hill albeit at a reduced speed. On a mid-drive bike, you would be able to climb the same hill at nearly the same speed (limited to max set speed) as an unlocked bike with proper gear shifting techniques.

Since the Juggernaut Ultra Duo 2 is a mid-mounted motor eBike, changing wheelsets from 3" MTB tires to 4" fat-tire is much easier than a rear-mounted motor eBike.


Thank you for your patience. Have a great day!


So they said nothing about being able to unlock it but it seems you are able to lock it to specific classes based on the display? So I think the unlimited is the way to go​

 

[dmark]

Hey guys, first time ebike buyer and I had some questions for anyone who might have the Juggernaut Ultra Duo 2.
A-bit about me, I've had maybe 2 bikes in my life, fat bikes. 6' tall ~330lb's with some load at times taking it over that.
(Sorry in advance if these questions are silly basic ebike/bike questions)

-So first question, the bike says it has a 1000W bafang ultra m620 mid drive motor -> but the speed and power can either be limited to 19mph/500W or unlimited? Can I switch between limited / unlimited afterwards? Or is it a different mid drive motor?(At the states our limit for ebikes is 750W, so i do not know if 500W is underpowered)

-Second question, I'm thinking of grabbing the camo color which allows for 27.5x3 MTB wheels. MTB wheels seem like the better bet for my things but would I be able to switch between 27.5X3 and 26X4 fat wheels afterwards without needing to change the fork? Do the wheels change the load capacity? (the bike says 380lb load)

-Third question, I've seen some issues with the bafang motors in the forums, don't exactly understand what the problem is with them. Is it something that will effect new models or is it just older models?

-Fourth question, if it's limited to 19mph and 500W but has a 1000W motor will it just do it's best to max at 19mph and stay there?

Thanks in advance.

I have a Juggernaut Ultra limited to 500W, but I think the limit is for torque-sensored pedaling only. I can't pedal faster than 20 mph (32 kph), but I can throttle up to 31 mph (50 kph). The 50 kph limit can easily be removed, and the bike will go a little faster:

When I push the throttle, the controller actually shows the motor is putting out 1500W. Once I reach full speed of 31 mph (50 kph) on throttle, the motor puts out a steady 1000W.

I like the 20 mph (32 kph) pedaling limit because, at that speed, I still feel like I am contributing something with my pedaling. I also have a Rize Blade that goes up to 40 kph pedaling, but I feel like I am just spinning when I pedal at that speed.

 

[Bjaardker]

340lb 6'0" dude here.

I can confirm that you can limit and unlimit the motor at will by using the display if you order the unlocked model. With it unlimited I've gone up some serious hills with no problems at all, the motor hardly breaks a sweat. I haven't had any reason to turn on the limiter at this point.


I will also say, be aware that the while the frame and wheels are capable of handling 380lbs, the spring suspension on the front fork does not do so great. I bottom out the suspension with the smallest of bumps, so I ended up having to lock it out and I'll have to upgrade it later.

 

[ThePapaPat]

340lb 6'0" dude here.

I can confirm that you can limit and unlimit the motor at will by using the display if you order the unlocked model. With it unlimited I've gone up some serious hills with no problems at all, the motor hardly breaks a sweat. I haven't had any reason to turn on the limiter at this point.


I will also say, be aware that the while the frame and wheels are capable of handling 380lbs, the spring suspension on the front fork does not do so great. I bottom out the suspension with the smallest of bumps, so I ended up having to lock it out and I'll have to upgrade it later.

Did you ever replace the suspension on your bike? I was looking at doing so, but I am having a hard time finding a relatively inexpensive replacement that fits.

 

[Bjaardker]

Did you ever replace the suspension on your bike? I was looking at doing so, but I am having a hard time finding a relatively inexpensive replacement that fits.

Unfortunately no. I have yet to find anything inexpensive that fits. I've just left it locked out and accepted the fact there's not much I could do about it. It's a really big bummer. I'm probably going to start looking for solid forks to replace it with since there's no reason to be rolling around with the extra weight if it does me no good.