Pragmasis Protector Chains?

[bikeman242]

I was wondering if anybody was familiar with these chains? They are from the UK and are hard to find reviews for. They are relatively light as they use longer links, an 11mm chain, 100cm length, weights only 4.65 pounds. Pragma(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)sis recommends the Squire padlocks for them.

 

[Ebiker01]

They have reviews on a Uk site, but 11mm is too thin. The 19 or 22mm is better. Squire padlocks are very good.

 

[bikeman242]

They have reviews on a Uk site, but 11mm is too thin. The 19 or 22mm is better. Squire padlocks are very good.

This is for portable use. I can't possibly carry a 19mm or 22mm chain around on the bike.

Abus maximum security chain, the XPlus 6500, is 10mm thick. The pragmasis protector is 11mm at a comparable weight. Pragmasis is made in UK vs. Abus in China.

The other option is the Abus folding lock, but I have read they are easily defeated. I assumed an 11mm chain is stronger than the maximum security folding lock, which has 5.5mm thick plates.

 

[indianajo]

Any metal can be defeated with a cutting torch or a grinding tool. How much time is a factor.
Abus fold lock is too short to fit around a light pole or a gas meter. Suitable for people living in mega-civilized cities with bicycle tethers everywhere. The only ones we have here secure the front wheel, whoopie. You get your $50 wheel back when the bicycle is gone.
I'm using this stainless steel sling https://www.mcmaster.com/8942T14 which weighs about 5 lb in the 6' variety or 190 cm. .375" diameter or 9.4 mm. 2 years parking on the street & at store cart racks, nobody has fooled with it yet. Stainless is a ***** to cut with a bolt cutter , doesn't grind well because it won't burn, and won't burn like ferrous steel in an acetylene cutting torch. Has to melted to drops by brute heat. If you're still concerned buy the .500" version or 13 mm. https://www.mcmaster.com/8942T15 which should take 70% more time to grind through than the 3/8" one. The advantage of cable over chain, there is only one steel length to carry, not two. Mine rolls up in the pannier bag, hasn't ripped it yet.
I painted mine with handle dip from the same company to prevent scratches on the frame.

 

[FlatSix911]

Any metal can be defeated with a cutting torch or a grinding tool. How much time is a factor. Abus fold lock is too short to fit around a light pole or a gas meter. Suitable for people living in mega-civilized cities with bicycle tethers everywhere. The only ones we have here secure the front wheel, whoopie. You get your $50 wheel back when the bicycle is gone.

I'm using this stainless steel sling https://www.mcmaster.com/8942T14 which weighs about 5 lb in the 6' variety or 190 cm. .375" diameter or 9.4 mm. 2 years parking on the street & at store cart racks, nobody has fooled with it yet. Stainless is a ***** to cut with a bolt cutter , doesn't grind well because it won't burn, and won't burn like ferrous steel in an acetylene cutting torch. Has to melted to drops by brute heat.
If you're still concerned buy the .500" version or 13 mm. https://www.mcmaster.com/8942T15 which should take 70% more time to grind through than the 3/8" one. The advantage of cable over chain, there is only one steel length to carry, not two. Mine rolls up in the pannier bag, hasn't ripped it yet. I painted mine with handle dip from the same company to prevent scratches on the frame.

Nice tip... thanks for sharing.

 

[bikeman242]

Any metal can be defeated with a cutting torch or a grinding tool. How much time is a factor.
Abus fold lock is too short to fit around a light pole or a gas meter. Suitable for people living in mega-civilized cities with bicycle tethers everywhere. The only ones we have here secure the front wheel, whoopie. You get your $50 wheel back when the bicycle is gone.
I'm using this stainless steel sling https://www.mcmaster.com/8942T14 which weighs about 5 lb in the 6' variety or 190 cm. .375" diameter or 9.4 mm. 2 years parking on the street & at store cart racks, nobody has fooled with it yet. Stainless is a ***** to cut with a bolt cutter , doesn't grind well because it won't burn, and won't burn like ferrous steel in an acetylene cutting torch. Has to melted to drops by brute heat. If you're still concerned buy the .500" version or 13 mm. https://www.mcmaster.com/8942T15 which should take 70% more time to grind through than the 3/8" one. The advantage of cable over chain, there is only one steel length to carry, not two. Mine rolls up in the pannier bag, hasn't ripped it yet.
I painted mine with handle dip from the same company to prevent scratches on the frame.

Very interesting.

How much does this weigh?

What do you use to lock the cable up with?

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

Over on the Fatbiking & Health thread contained within the Fat Bikes forums on MTBR (it's where I personally have been posting for the past 4 years or so), one of our fellow thread members had his Specialized carbon fat bike (with fancy high dollar carbon rims) stolen out from under him while he was inside his local northern California meet up and eatery shop during the past month.

Seems like one of the local homeless/druggy types made off with it.

Don't recall the lock he used, but it was one of those minimalist kevlar-belt type locks that saved on weight.

With the advent of portable, 24 to 50 volt grinders with all manner of cutting wheels; easily purchased at the local Harbor Freight (20% off coupons, too!), it has never been easier for bicycle thiefs today to steal our bikes.

The best thing aside from locking our bikes with a heavy duty lock like the Abus Bordo or something similar is Situational Awareness in those times we are off and away from our bikes. There is no lock out there that is 100% theft proof; take that fact with a very determined thief armed with one of these portable, battery powered cutting tools and we lose every single time. Situational Awareness like sizing up the surroundings of an establishment we wish to go into; people......eyeing up folks eyeing up your bike as you roll up. Getting that sketchy feeling? Keep on rolling to another place of business until your Spidey Sense says you feel safe.

Every now and then on my local rides I will stop at one of 2 particular local Wawa convenience stores for a sandwich and drink on the go. Both are located near NJ Turnpike on and off ramps, so folks are constantly driving in and out on a constant basis. Though I always lock my Haibike around a steel handicapped parking sign post; while I am inside, I am ALWAYS looking outside towards the bike to see if it catches any interest. And it does; but most folks are just interested in the bike for what it is and will start a conversation when I come out to it, my business inside having been concluded. But what if????

Situational awareness as having a front row table where your locked bike can be observed by you should you be stopping off for a mid-ride slice of pizza and drink.

Situational awareness as in knowing the towns and cities we are pedaling in. Up on the Delaware and Lehigh Canal, even with an Abus Bordo employed, it may not be a wise idea to leave our Ebikes unattended for long in towns such as Bristol, Morrisville, Easton. Know that along some stretches of that canal, especially the southern end, there are homeless encampments hidden within those woods off the towpaths. But that kind of thinking can apply to any other middling to large populated center; in any state of our country.

The meth and heroin problem in the recent decade is responsible for these camps, so one just has to be on our toes with eyes wide open in where we are pedaling or stopping. Remember too in our particular local area, going through those towns featuring a high crime rate, poverty and or increased illegal drug use, that eyes are always watching you as you are pedaling on through. On my own riding through some iffy neighborhoods in order to reach the D&L Canal from my own homebase canal, I make it a point to never ride through in the hours of darkness; I ride through smartly and efficiently to get through as fast as possible, not dawdling, not sightseeing along the way. Even my low-key color ensemble of cycling clothing (some shades of camo and gray & black) helped to keep my profile stealth. To wear bright flourescent orange and safety yellow is to really make you stick out like a sore thumb.

So there you go. Lightweight savings should not be a consideration if our bike travels take us in sketchy towns. And our particular riding areas meet that criteria. It's not about being paranoid or nervous, to be constantly on-edge. It's about employing Situational Awareness while out riding or on a ride break. To size up the area before us to determine what level of alertness we employ.

In reality, it is no more different then having a spare tire tube or patch kit on hand to fix a flat. It's just one more tool to carry with us in our daily riding. Hope this has helped or made anyone consider these possibilities when out riding with our high dollar ebikes.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

Lt Columbo moment: "Oh, just one more thing!" When going inside a store or place of business; your bike locked around a secure pole or what have you; if your bike's Display can be removed, take it with you. At the minimum, you've created a heavy weight bike that cannot have it's drive system turned on; slowing down the potential get-away for the thief.

Also: there are Low-Jack types of devices that can be hidden within the frame of your bike.

Our Fatbiking & Health friend who had his Carbon Specialized fatty stolen from him had homeowners insurance that covered the cost of the bike, minus a deductible. Smart thinking on his part to carry this insurance rider.

 

[indianajo]

The best thing aside from locking our bikes with a heavy duty lock like the Abus Bordo or something similar is Situational Awareness in those times we are off and away from our bikes.
Know that along some stretches of that canal, especially the southern end, there are homeless encampments hidden within those woods off the towpaths.

The Abus Bordo won't wrap a power pole or gas meter. I'm happy for you Delaware is so civilized as to have city bike tethers. I use all of 6' to wrap some of the taller poles. I never use signposts under 8' since lifting the bike is fairly easy. When I use a shopping cart rack I use two rails since one rail would cut quicker with a grinder than the sling.
The police in my town are also very aware of the homeless. I heard a policeman tell a lady asking about her stolen car to look at the homeless camp by the RR yard in the middle of a muddy field. If a homeless person had driven a car to that camp, it would still be stuck in the mud, until July when the mud firms up. I know many of the homeless since they eat at our church. If one had a battery grinder, they wouldn't keep it very long; their gear gets stolen a lot. The pawn shop will buy a grinder. Homeless sleep in the open in clothes. The scooter team with a van is more of a risk; they cut a chain link fence and a padlock on a shed across the street to get a scooter.
As far as situational awareness, when I'm in the megastore getting groceries or farm store getting supplies, or in a church repairing the organ or tuning the piano, I don't have time to look every 10 minutes at my bicycle.
I don't have a scale under the 300 lb platform for my body, so my estimate of the 6' 3/8" sling weight is about the same as a 2 liter soda bottle. I use a grade 10 master lock that come in a set of three, same key for my bike, garage, and back door. A big key ball in my pocket gets annoying over 30 miles. I tried to buy an Abus covered shank padlock set, but apparently they were sold without key cores. Lots of bargains on e-bay are not actually useful.
I can't imagine locking a bike with a kevlar lock. I see those integrated combo lock cables lying by the rail in the park with the lock broken, sometimes. I used 3/32" inch chain and a $2 combination lock on my $150 MTB for years with no trouble, but upgraded to the cable when I started riding a $1500 bike with a $840 motor/battery combo.

 

[bikeman242]

Any metal can be defeated with a cutting torch or a grinding tool. How much time is a factor.
Abus fold lock is too short to fit around a light pole or a gas meter. Suitable for people living in mega-civilized cities with bicycle tethers everywhere. The only ones we have here secure the front wheel, whoopie. You get your $50 wheel back when the bicycle is gone.
I'm using this stainless steel sling https://www.mcmaster.com/8942T14 which weighs about 5 lb in the 6' variety or 190 cm. .375" diameter or 9.4 mm. 2 years parking on the street & at store cart racks, nobody has fooled with it yet. Stainless is a ***** to cut with a bolt cutter , doesn't grind well because it won't burn, and won't burn like ferrous steel in an acetylene cutting torch. Has to melted to drops by brute heat. If you're still concerned buy the .500" version or 13 mm. https://www.mcmaster.com/8942T15 which should take 70% more time to grind through than the 3/8" one. The advantage of cable over chain, there is only one steel length to carry, not two. Mine rolls up in the pannier bag, hasn't ripped it yet.
I painted mine with handle dip from the same company to prevent scratches on the frame.

I was looking at buying one of these cables.

Do you think they are more secure than a heavy 10mm or 12mm security chain from Pewag or Abus?

How much do they weigh?

Do they collapse easily into your pannier?