PAS on hills

[Barkme Wolf]

Best parts of my day is ebike commuting to and from work everyday. I only commuted with my old pedal power bike a few times in +3 years and hills, 10-20 mph windy days, and 95-105 degree summer heat suck all the joy out of it. Not an issue with my ebike commuting 3-5 times a week at 15 miles per day. Had to drive today because we had overnight rain that changed to snow with a sheet of ice everywhere this morning.

I never even thought about an ebike before until the end of last summer. The amount of choices we have today at affordable prices just didn't exist a few years ago. It feels like we are just entering an ebike renaissance and it is just going to get better.

I haven't touched my old bike since I purchased my Radrover in September.

I wish I had a Radrover in addition to my Radwagon. Radcity looks pretty sweet too.

 

[Kingsinger]

Hate to differ with you and maybe I am confused but my research shows:
https://www.seattle.gov/transportation/steepest.htm

I ride from Renton to Redmond and run up several long steep hills greater than 15%. I keep my PAS set at 2 regular and 3 on hills, haven't had an issue in over 2000 miles although I have been passed up by people on Radrovers and other electrics, I assume they did not read the manual.

Doesn't the Radrover have a geared hub, rather than a direct drive motor like on the Radwagon? That would mean better torque on hills, no?

JL

 

[Kingsinger]

Yes, Radcity is the one that makes the most sense to me, at least in the abstract, for urban riding/commuting. Because it weighs under 55lbs without the battery, is normal bike length, and doesn't have tires wider than 3 inches, it would play best with Seattle's public transit grid (easy to put the train or a bike rack on a metro bus). I like the idea of having a relatively easy back up plan for getting home on the bus or train with the bike, if the weather takes a bad turn, etc. I guess you could fold up the mini and bring it on the bus or train, but given its weight, that doesn't seem super practical.

 

[Barkme Wolf]

I have not tried the Radcity but it seems like it is the only practical design they have that works with a bus commute. I am using mine for commute, grocery runs and camping so the cargo is sort of essential (a mini-van). I sure would love to have a second bike to use exclusively for work that complied with the bus rack standards.

 

[Kingsinger]

I have not tried the Radcity but it seems like it is the only practical design they have that works with a bus commute. I am using mine for commute, grocery runs and camping so the cargo is sort of essential (a mini-van). I sure would love to have a second bike to use exclusively for work that complied with the bus rack standards.

If the Rad City had been available when you bought your Radwagon, do you think you might have opted for the Radcity instead?

 

[Barkme Wolf]

If the Rad City had been available when you bought your Radwagon, do you think you might have opted for the Radcity instead?

Due to the ability to take on the bus and front suspension I would have absolutely opted for the RadCity but would have been disappointed about the re-gen and the frame alloy (RadWagon is steel). I would rather have the RC and wish I had the RW than vice versa.

 

[Kingsinger]

Why would you have been disappointed about the regen on Radcity? Tech specs indicate it has regen also. Does it work differently than on the Radwagon?

 

[Barkme Wolf]

Why would you have been disappointed about the regen on Radcity? Tech specs indicate it has regen also. Does it work differently than on the Radwagon?

I did not see that. They dropped the mini and city so fast I didn't have a chance to check them both. Then it's just the frame. If I could I would trade my Rw for a RC I think. Again, I have not road tested the RC so who knows. The front "shocks" are a huge factor. The RW is a rough ride, no joke.

 

[mrgold35]

I still had to upgrade to the cloud-9 11.5X12.5 seat, Suntour NCX SP12 suspension seatpost, PSI around 18-20, and keep the front suspension open to smooth out the ride at 20-23 mph on paved main/side roads on my work commute. I really have to pay attention to pick my riding paths to keep my butt in the seat over bumps and avoid road debris at 18-22 mph. I still have padded shorts for summer when I'm not wearing my thick cold weather riding pants.

I've tried both open and closed front suspension and it is much more comfortable ride with the open suspension. I just adjust to have a little less rebound/travel on paved roads compared to trail riding. I really don't notice a difference going uphill with the open suspension either other than a more comfy ride.

 

[BVC]

Hey guys - I did a video of how the PAS levels work with the new firmware -which is based on WATTAGE OVER PAS. The older firmware is based on SPEED OVER PAS.

In simple terms - for example - PAS Level 2 caps out around 150w (out of avail 750w). It doesn't care what speed you travel be it 3 mph or 20 mph. It will always give you about 150w to "assist" you. The older version of the controller was based on level. For example PAS1 would cap out at 10mph and it didn't care how much power it took. All the controller wanted to do was get you up to 10mph and keep you there. If you pedal faster/over 10mph - all power is cut off and you're 100% under your own power. So in a way the new firmware is a bit better depending on situation.. less jerky.

Anyway - here's the video to demonstrate the newest firmware. This is confirmed by Rad Power Bikes as I complained to them and they assured me this was properly working (I showed them the video)

 

[Trail Cruiser]

Hey guys - I did a video of how the PAS levels work with the new firmware -which is based on WATTAGE OVER PAS. The older firmware is based on SPEED OVER PAS.

In simple terms - for example - PAS Level 2 caps out around 150w (out of avail 750w). It doesn't care what speed you travel be it 3 mph or 20 mph. It will always give you about 150w to "assist" you. The older version of the controller was based on level. For example PAS1 would cap out at 10mph and it didn't care how much power it took. All the controller wanted to do was get you up to 10mph and keep you there. If you pedal faster/over 10mph - all power is cut off and you're 100% under your own power. So in a way the new firmware is a bit better depending on situation.. less jerky.

Anyway - here's the video to demonstrate the newest firmware. This is confirmed by Rad Power Bikes as I complained to them and they assured me this was properly working (I showed them the video)

That's very interesting since I programmed my BBSHD in a very similar way.
My assist levels 4 and 5 are about equal wattage as the Rodrover.

 

[Thom473]

Well, I don't think the controller on the Radmini works in quite the same way. In PAS level 0-obviously, no watts. In PAS 1, there is no wattage displayed, but it is helping a tiny bit as compared with zero. In level 2 it goes to about 175. PAS3 gets you to 500+ and the amount of assist seems to depend on cadence (but I could be misinterpreting what I saw/felt).. PAS 4 and 5 also seem to boost based on cadence and wattage. Throttle only mode gets you to 20 mph or 750 watts but there seems to be another limit because I've seen the display at 300 watts and 16 mph but I don't know what that other limit is yet. The bike is still new to me (only about 20 miles so far), but that's what I saw/felt today...
As an aside, I don't know what the wheel diameter adjustment does since today I had it set to 14 but didn't see or feel any difference from when I had it set to 20. Anyway, don't take this as gospel, it is just my impressions from today's ride.
Had some email correspondence with RadPwr and they indicate to me that you can get limited wattage by pedaling very slow, but after a certain cadence (still pretty slow according to them), it'll power up to the max for that PASlevel.

 

[vincent]

my understanding is there are a few integrations of controller out there, so the bikes will not all be the same

rad has been constantly working on this to get some controlled smooth pas so the controllers has evolved

mine have the speed and watt controlled settings and i like those
tested the newer one that is watts only and did not like it
but i am sure it is hard to please everyone

personally i dont like a lot of assist except in higher levels like 4-5
my goal is for light/smooth assist- no big leaps forward unless i ask for it with the throttle override

but some others like more kick i think

 

[BVC]

I'm with you, Vincent. I do not like the new controller all that much.. I'm more of the speed and watts over the pas = watts only portion.

I have a new radrover coming in on Tuesday. Wonder if there will be an even newer version firmware lol

 

[vincent]

bvc please keep us up to date on how the new rover is

i know they are trying to accomodate everyones riding styles and it is hard to do

i am pretty pleased with my controllers now that use speed/watts - hoping they last a long time!

 

[BVC]

Will do. I got my new (warranty) controller in a few weeks ago to replace the defective one on my white 2016 RR, so I'm sure it'll have the same firmware as my new radrover that's currently sitting on a UPS truck in Oregon. However my warranty replacement unit looked used - so maybe the firmware has the new thought process, just not fine tuned?

I just miss the instant torque of the older firmware. The new firmware seems to be a bit too soft for me.