Novel Coronavirus discussions

[Mr. Coffee]

Definite bioengineering In Wuhan coronavirus:

I think the fair statement is The Jury Is Still Out:

No, the 2019-nCoV genome doesn’t really seem engineered from HIV

A group of bioinformaticians at two prestigious universities in Delhi, India, published a preprint scientific manuscript on the bioRxiv preprint server Friday has led many to speculate wildly that 2019-nCoV may have been deliberately engineered using HIV protein sequences. The paper, entitled...

theprepared.com

Also, as a bonus, some of the research papers the author of the previous article has contributed to:

Ari Allyn-Feuer's research works | Concordia University–Ann Arbor, Ann Arbor (CUAA) and other places

Ari Allyn-Feuer's 16 research works with 259 citations and 6,357 reads, including: Publisher Correction: 3D Shape Modeling for Cell Nuclear Morphological Analysis and Classification

www.researchgate.net

So this guy seems to know his way around a DNA strand as well.

 

[BrianK]

It’s an RNA virus ;-)

 

[BrianK]

I think the fair statement is The Jury Is Still Out:

If you understand viral genetics and how they’re bioengineered, what the video is saying is that was definitely an escaped research virus.

Time will tell, but I’m willing to bet good money it is bioengineered and it escaped from their lab.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

If you understand viral genetics and how they’re bioengineered, what the video is saying is that was definitely an escaped research virus.

Time will tell, but I’m willing to bet good money it is bioengineered and it escaped from their lab.

I will take your bet, largely because money probably won't be worth much if you are correct

 

[Handlebars]

It's impossible to overstate how recklessly stupid the behavior of the authorities has been.

To study Eileen Devilla's statements is to bathe in the absurd.

First, with SARS, she says they quarantined people because the assumption was that people are transmitting virus before they are showing full illness. That was the standard assumption. They found out,though, that it wasn't the case.
Before having any cases or getting much knowledge of NovelCorona, they pre-decided to NOT quarantine. But it IS infectious before symptoms. Even after knowing it is infectious pre- symptoms, they continue with on no quarantine and wave everyone through ... even if the person immediately reports to them that they are ill when getting off the plane.
Contrarily, with SARS they quarantined IN CASE it was infectious before symptoms showed. Presumably that would have been correct if it was infectious before symptoms...so they double down on being reckless now because once the precaution was unnecessary.

 

[Handlebars]

I think the fair statement is The Jury Is Still Out:

No, the 2019-nCoV genome doesn’t really seem engineered from HIV

A group of bioinformaticians at two prestigious universities in Delhi, India, published a preprint scientific manuscript on the bioRxiv preprint server Friday has led many to speculate wildly that 2019-nCoV may have been deliberately engineered using HIV protein sequences. The paper, entitled...

theprepared.com

Also, as a bonus, some of the research papers the author of the previous article has contributed to:

Ari Allyn-Feuer's research works | Concordia University–Ann Arbor, Ann Arbor (CUAA) and other places

Ari Allyn-Feuer's 16 research works with 259 citations and 6,357 reads, including: Publisher Correction: 3D Shape Modeling for Cell Nuclear Morphological Analysis and Classification

www.researchgate.net

So this guy seems to know his way around a DNA strand as well.

Just look at his comment in reply. It shows his full ignorance of factual matters

Ari Allyn-Feuer Blougram 23 hours ago



Interesting link. Thanks for sending. It’s unlikely that this kind of research would lead to an outbreak, because they take a lot of precautions in virology labs. They work with HIV, Ebola, Smallpox, and they don’t let them out. A few individual cases of SARS have happened in virology labs since the 2003 outbreak, but no widespread transmission.

and they don’t let them out

The Canadian Governor General's Award Winner and her husband were ejected and escorted by police out of the university biolab along with some of her Chinese students.
And she sent live Ebola and live HeNipah virus to China on a PASSENGER PLANE. Your expert is talking out his ---.

And another known case of easy theft and illegal transport from the same biolab is yet another Chinese man who stole Ebola and entered the USA with it.

So your guy's opinion therefore is perhaps considerably worse than worthless.
It's called MISINFORMATION.

 

[PDoz]

It's impossible to overstate how recklessly stupid the behavior of the authorities has been.

To study Eileen Devilla's statements is to bathe in the absurd.

First, with SARS, she says they quarantined people because the assumption was that people are transmitting virus before they are showing full illness. That was the standard assumption. They found out,though, that it wasn't the case.
Before having any cases or getting much knowledge of NovelCorona, they pre-decided to NOT quarantine. But it IS infectious before symptoms. Even after knowing it is infectious pre- symptoms, they continue with on no quarantine and wave everyone through ... even if the person immediately reports to them that they are ill when getting off the plane.
Contrarily, with SARS they quarantined IN CASE it was infectious before symptoms showed. Presumably that would have been correct if it was infectious before symptoms...so they double down on being reckless now because once the precaution was unnecessary.

Put on a tin foil hat and consider the scenario where thus coronavirus is the natural spreading immunisation to the REAL weapon. China locks everyone down to stop other countries getting protection?

nb I'm not saying that's the case, just pointing out how difficult it must be to decide on action in a timely manner with limitted information

 

[Handlebars]

Put on a tin foil hat and consider the scenario where thus coronavirus is the natural spreading immunisation to the REAL weapon. China locks everyone down to stop other countries getting protection?

nb I'm not saying that's the case, just pointing out how difficult it must be to decide on action in a timely manner with limitted information

I don't think that a decision to screen people coming from the region is a difficult one at all, IMO it's minimum care...or that a decision to quarantine sick people who are known to be infectious, is unusual or difficult.
The result of it getting out of hand is the incalculable suffering and loss. Mitigating that risk is minimal effort and cost and is reassuring to investors, so money saving and possibly saving many lives.

 

[PDoz]

I don't think that a decision to screen people coming from the region is a difficult one at all, IMO it's minimum care...or that a decision to quarantine sick people who are known to be infectious, is unusual or difficult.
The result of it getting out of hand is the incalculable suffering and loss. Mitigating that risk is minimal effort and cost and is reassuring to investors, so money saving and possibly saving many lives.

I'm not arguing, and a rapid pcr test +/- quarantine before entry would have been really nice - but that's a lot easier with the retrospectoscope than it would have been with the humanitarianpolitiscope . Can you imagine the uproar if a countries citizens were denied the opportunity to return and then caught this thing whilst in quarantine / stranded in china ?

nb Testing is difficult at the moment, so presumably a couple of weeks ago we simply didn't gave the ability to test everyone on entry. ( I suspect we still don't )

ps reflect on my original post and consider the implications if there really is a more aggressive weapon.

 

[Handlebars]

Can you imagine the uproar if a countries citizens were denied the opportunity to return and then caught this thing whilst in quarantine / stranded in china ?

but this isn't about not allowing citizens back in. In fact, even noncitizens are allowed to flow in.

nb Testing is difficult at the moment, so presumably a couple of weeks ago we simply didn't gave the ability to test everyone on entry. ( I suspect we still don't )

Nobody is suggesting testing everyone. Taking temperature allows them to know who is probably already ill. And some people are arriving ill and telling the athorities and they do nothing but give them a pamphlet.

ps reflect on my original post and consider the implications if there really is a more aggressive weapon.

and this is the preemptive humanitarian cure? I don't see any reason to assume that, for even a minute - but I don't doubt they could come up with something worse given another few months.

 

[PDoz]

but this isn't about not allowing citizens back in. In fact, even noncitizens are allowed to flow in.

Nobody is suggesting testing everyone. Taking temperature allows them to know who is probably already ill. And some people are arriving ill and telling the athorities and they do nothing but give them a pamphlet.

and this is the preemptive humanitarian cure? I don't see any reason to assume that, for even a minute - but I don't doubt they could come up with something worse given another few months.

I'm struggling to stay up to date with the Australian response - as of today travel from china for non citizens stopped , and citizens are being asked to self quarantine for 14 days ( not enough imho, but at least the gate has been partly closed as the horse bolts...)

What evidence do you have that taking temperature works as a screen? Especially with those infrared thermometers being waved around. Most people are visibly unwell by the time those thermometers can detect a fever. I'd honestly like to know if there is evidence, because reports of spread before symptoms develop seem to suggest otherwise

 

[Handlebars]

What evidence do you have that taking temperature works as a screen? Especially with those infrared thermometers being waved around. Most people are visibly unwell by the time those thermometers can detect a fever.

It screens for unwell people, in other words, gets some of the infected, but not the recently infected. Something odd in all of this, is that over and over, authorities are declaring "no" to things that work partially, as if working partially is not a better thing than nothing at all. Don't wear masks in public because super careful hygiene is better, etc. Why not both? The logic is warped. If someone sneezes or coughs in your face on the subway, have good hygiene but do not wear a mask? They're politicians and charlatans. It's extremely difficult for people to suddenly stop contacting their face or stop touching doors and so on. As soon as you actually try that you find out how many times you break protocol. It's not a safe solution. Gloves and masks, and glasses... with knowedge of how to use them. They work.

 

[PDoz]

Re masks - it might be too early ? In Australia we're desperately short of masks due to the bushfires - it was almost impossible to find them in stores 2 weeks ago. Our govt just released a million from stockpiles - call that 3 days if everyone walking through a doctors surgery has to wear one? I think there's another 9 million stockpiled - good luck getting a fresh supply from china! So when do doctors start handing them out? There's definitely not enough for a month of everyone wearing them

 

[Browneye]

I had a regular checkup last week and they always push flu shot. Doc says it is uncanny the coverage this coronavirus thing gets when already 8000 people have died just this season from flue they can inoculate for.
He says he recommends to everyone, takes it himself, gives to his children and family, that you're leaving yourself unnecessarily exposed if not. But this gets no media coverage.

Bioweapon seems like a conspiracy theory, but based on China as origin I guess it's not that far fetched.

Get your flu shot in the meantime.

 

[Handlebars]

re ne

I had a regular checkup last week and they always push flu shot. Doc says it is uncanny the coverage this coronavirus thing gets when already 8000 people have died just this season from flue they can inoculate for.
He says he recommends to everyone, takes it himself, gives to his children and family, that you're leaving yourself unnecessarily exposed if not. But this gets no media coverage.

Bioweapon seems like a conspiracy theory, but based on China as origin I guess it's not that far fetched.

Get your flu shot in the meantime.

Comparing it to flu and being dismissive on that basis, is not smart at all, unless the purpose is to tamp down fear for that reason alone, using whatever sounds convincing if you don't pay much attention.
We should discuss that topic to show the fallacy involved.

But this gets no media coverage

It gets tons of coverage.

 

[Handlebars]

already 8000 people have died just this season

Out of estimated 15,000,000 cases. That's what they leave out. It is important, of course. But it's also important to compare apples to apples.

 

[Browneye]

I'm not a conspiracy theorist and generally afraid of nothing, and have never had a flu shot. Just sayin'.
I'm going to let the people in charge deal with coronavirus. Got nothing else. B-bye now...

 

[Handlebars]

For SARS the number of infections was 8,098 and 774 deaths
For NovelCorona the number of infections is already 14,627 and skyrocketing. Deaths are 305, with 346 recovered.
Doubling time 6.4 days so far

 

[Handlebars]

Even recovered patients are now found to be infectious at least for some days, as the German case showed 2 people infected by the first victim, after he recovered and went back to work (before being informed he had NCorona). That part is unusual. Normally when recovered you're not still dangerous.

 

[FlatSix911]

As many suspected... no surprise here.

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

WUHAN, China — A mysterious illness had stricken seven patients at a hospital, and a doctor tried to warn his medical school classmates. “Quarantined in the emergency department,” the doctor, Li Wenliang, wrote in an online chat group on Dec. 30, referring to patients. “So frightening,” one recipient replied, before asking about the epidemic that began in China in 2002 and ultimately killed nearly 800 people. “Is SARS coming again?"

In the middle of the night, officials from the health authority in the central city of Wuhan summoned Dr. Li, demanding to know why he had shared the information.
Three days later, the police compelled him to sign a statement that his warning constituted “illegal behavior.”