No throttle and no way home today... :(

Ok, so here is a good one. I was on a work trip north of here and before going was having inssues with my bike. A Luna Z1. Long story short the motor was out split and re-installed by me which I had done in the past with mine as well as others. Upon re-assembly I put the torque sensor plug in the wrong recepticle and didn't discover it until I turned it on and went to pedal and there was no assist, although the throttle still worked. It was pretty much go time for my trip so I loadd it up and headed out.

Dual purpose trip as I was taking my 05' van to be serviced 90 miles north of here which was where the project was so I made arrangements with a known mechanic and planned to have them work on it while I was on site and with a work friend to drive me around. All was going well until it died 3 miles up a cutoff road where although I have AAA and was guaranteed a gratis tow had no cell service. I had made it to a decent pull off spot so I unloaded my bike, which fits nicely without removing anything in my van btw, and rode about 4 miles to where I could get reception. I did so pedaling and throttling.

So for the next 26 miles I rode up there that is how I got along on the bike. Can't say it was all that easy frankly as it takes some different coordination and gearing issues when trying to stay on top of the motor with a throttle? Doable but I'm taking out the motor, again, and putting the plug in the right place.

On the other hand I was pretty amazed that my wh/mi use was actually down from using the PAS? I still had over 5v left on a 52v battery when I put it on the charger and the best I had gotten out of that battery in the past was 25 miles using very little throttle. Sounds crazy and I am going to keep an eye on it but my main plan is to use PAS for my eMTB.
 
i find that also, most of the time on my in the past throttle only bikes i used less wh on torque or cadence sensor bikes..
once you get up to speed you dont need it much
still like having option of pas and throttle though
 
vincent said:
i find that also, most of the time on my in the past throttle only bikes i used less wh on torque or cadence sensor bikes..
once you get up to speed you dont need it much
still like having option of pas and throttle though
Click to expand...
I think most use PAS or have PAS set up to aggressively... well at least for the way I ride.
If I want to maintain a cadence I chose a PAS set to a cadence just below it this way at such cadence I'm doing all the work and assistance only comes into play in getting there and when a resistance is encountered. This is why I prefer to utilize all 9 PAS in my display options.. it gives me lots of choices for typical cadences in many varying situations. The throttle for me is for when I need a little extra push or exact control over motor output.
 
PedalUma said:
A guy saw tourists screaming. They had not read the sign. Bear Replant Does Not Work Like Mosquito Repellant A guy had a black spot on his pecker. Two urologists both said that the whole thing would need to be surgically removed immediately. Then he went to a traditional practitioner in an exotic part of town. He said to not worry. Surgery is not needed in his case. "It fall off all by self."

It is funny, some people don't know what a good ebike looks like when the see one.
Click to expand...
I 100% agree some don't know what a good ebike looks like.
I do like the separate 'shark' type battery best. With a titanium frame, little choice, but I have some ideas.
Commuter_Pro.jpg
20220531_131627.jpg

My next machine (on order) is this WattWagons G510 Ultra. My rear-hub concealed battery is my daily driver, though that's an old photo and I've installed a new fork, raceface pedals, this n' that.
20210722_135946.jpg
20210905_142830.jpg

I do some heavy shopping too. This bike is about utility from the git go. Real world. What an ebike looks like and is capable of.
I'd like to to see what others are building. lol.

FnF
 
Gionnirocket said:
I think most use PAS or have PAS set up to aggressively... well at least for the way I ride.
If I want to maintain a cadence I chose a PAS set to a cadence just below it this way at such cadence I'm doing all the work and assistance only comes into play in getting there and when a resistance is encountered. This is why I prefer to utilize all 9 PAS in my display options.. it gives me lots of choices for typical cadences in many varying situations. The throttle for me is for when I need a little extra push or exact control over motor output.
Click to expand...
But you don't have any choice when you don't have a torque sensor.
The debate as to which is better will always rage, but it's really a matter of preferential style.
Cadence is for distance cruising - as it's name implies.
Torque Sensor is for constantly varying speed, stop-and-go work.
People with more endurance that have been riding longer tend to like cadence, but mountain bikers I talk tend towards torque sensors.
 
Fast n' Furious said:
I 100% agree some don't know what a good ebike looks like.
I do like the separate 'shark' type battery best. With a titanium frame, little choice, but I have some ideas.
View attachment 131784 View attachment 131790
My next machine (on order) is this WattWagons G510 Ultra. My rear-hub concealed battery is my daily driver, though that's an old photo and I've installed a new fork, raceface pedals, this n' that.
View attachment 131791 View attachment 131792
I do some heavy shopping too. This bike is about utility from the git go. Real world. What an ebike looks like and is capable of.
I'd like to to see what others are building. lol.

FnF
Click to expand...
You chastise others for going off topic, but here you go again. Just a friendly reminder, the topic is throttles, not what is “Fat n’ Frumious” likes.

To go back on subject, class 2, (and class 3 bikes for that matter), are not allowed in bike lanes or on most of the trails in the area that I live. Unless it is used only for commuting on public roads, it would be a very restrictive choice. Around here, a class 1 can go anywhere that a manual bike can go.
 
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Just a reminder to all: please ignore each other if you don't have anything nice to say. This thread is on the verge of being closed. Thank you!!
 
Just for the record; When someone creates a post, they do not own it: They launch it into public discussion and the thread goes its own way like a toy boat to the open sea. We also have some more private topic discussions where we have greater control of who sees and comments on what. But, this is not that. This is open. Wide open. With that said I am hitting IGNORE, as suggested by @Angela M. Wow, I had a great day so far, having great fun and making people super happy. I love it!
 
These are the Federal Regulations Federal Registry ebikes.

"The Memorandum defines an e-bike as “a two- or three-wheeled cycle with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts that provides propulsion assistance.” This definition is consistent with the definition of “low speed electric bicycle” in the Consumer Product Safety Act (15 U.S.C. 2085) and the definition of “electric bicycle” in the laws governing the Federal Aid Highway Program (23 U.S.C. 217(j)(2), except that the definition in the Memorandum does not include requirements from those statutes that an e-bike may not exceed 100 pounds or reach 20 mph when powered solely by the motor. Instead, the Memorandum, consistent with the Secretary's Order and many states that have promulgated regulations for e-bikes, refers to a three-class system that limits the maximum assisted speed of an e-bike:
  • Class 1 electric bicycle means an electric bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.
  • Class 2 electric bicycle means an electric bicycle equipped with a motor that may be used exclusively to propel the bicycle, and that is not capable of providing assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.
  • Class 3 electric bicycle means an electric bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 28 miles per hour.
Specifically, if my machine is set to Class II standards, but I can alter that to Class I or Class III, it's my business.

As an old man, I'm familiar with complainers forming support groups to push agendas.
So advocating banning throttles on our trails and paths - thereby 'excluding all disabled people who cannot pedal' - while 'telling us all about what they don't understand (THROTTLES) and don't use' is just a different flavor 💩.
It's been this way since Pilgrims were burning each other at the stake.
That's why we have choice. They lost.
This does not mean I care or want 'non-throttle patriots' rounded up to answer before the dock, however.
I can't imagine why anyone would ???
My sentiment is in the USA all that is not illegal is legal (general power of competence) and we temper that with moral and ethical responsibility. It's an axiom in law.
The French say: in England, "everything which is not forbidden is allowed", while in Germany, the opposite applies, so "everything which is not allowed is forbidden". This may be extended to France—"everything is allowed even if it is forbidden".
English judge, Sir John Laws, stated the principles as: "For the individual citizen, everything which is not forbidden is allowed; but for public bodies, and notably government, everything which is not allowed is forbidden."
Sorry for any tender feelings I stepped on.
I respect the moderator.
 
Fast n' Furious said:
These are the Federal Regulations Federal Registry ebikes.

"The Memorandum defines an e-bike as “a two- or three-wheeled cycle with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts that provides propulsion assistance.” This definition is consistent with the definition of “low speed electric bicycle” in the Consumer Product Safety Act (15 U.S.C. 2085) and the definition of “electric bicycle” in the laws governing the Federal Aid Highway Program (23 U.S.C. 217(j)(2), except that the definition in the Memorandum does not include requirements from those statutes that an e-bike may not exceed 100 pounds or reach 20 mph when powered solely by the motor. Instead, the Memorandum, consistent with the Secretary's Order and many states that have promulgated regulations for e-bikes, refers to a three-class system that limits the maximum assisted speed of an e-bike:
  • Class 1 electric bicycle means an electric bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.
  • Class 2 electric bicycle means an electric bicycle equipped with a motor that may be used exclusively to propel the bicycle, and that is not capable of providing assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.
  • Class 3 electric bicycle means an electric bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 28 miles per hour.
Specifically, if my machine is set to Class II standards, but I can alter that to Class I or Class III, it's my business.

As an old man, I'm familiar with complainers forming support groups to push agendas.
So advocating banning throttles on our trails and paths - thereby 'excluding all disabled people who cannot pedal' - while 'telling us all about what they don't understand (THROTTLES) and don't use' is just a different flavor 💩.
It's been this way since Pilgrims were burning each other at the stake.
That's why we have choice. They lost.
This does not mean I care or want 'non-throttle patriots' rounded up to answer before the dock, however.
I can't imagine why anyone would ???
My sentiment is in the USA all that is not illegal is legal (general power of competence) and we temper that with moral and ethical responsibility. It's an axiom in law.
The French say: in England, "everything which is not forbidden is allowed", while in Germany, the opposite applies, so "everything which is not allowed is forbidden". This may be extended to France—"everything is allowed even if it is forbidden".
English judge, Sir John Laws, stated the principles as: "For the individual citizen, everything which is not forbidden is allowed; but for public bodies, and notably government, everything which is not allowed is forbidden."
Sorry for any tender feelings I stepped on.
I respect the moderator.
Click to expand...

That’s a post I can agree with.
 
Stefan Mikes said:
Wrong. Your machine is of a given Class. Not can be set.

It is like you would try to set a big truck to be a car.
Click to expand...
In the USA, there are exceptions. It often comes down to state law, local rules or specific trail or path rules. Some class 1 trails allow a class 2 as long as the throttle is disabled and as long as the pedal assist doesn’t exceed 20 mph, basically becoming a class 1 bike.

Factory built ebikes will have a label stating their class. I would think that if a bike is labeled as class 3 and using a bike lane or path that is limited to class 1, that the bike would still be prohibited, but there are a lot of gray areas in laws and even more in their enforcement, so it’s a coin toss.

I recently rode the “Island Line Trail”. The causeway is long and narrow and quite spectacular. I saw all kinds of bikes, including class 2, but the only issues that I experienced were with people that appeared to have very little experience on a bike in general, (nothing to do with the bikes capabilities or type. Standing in and blocking the trail, weaving and wobbling, riding two abreast etc.). Generally, a lack of etiquette, lack of skill and lack of experience seemed to cause most of the problems. People cruising along under the bikes own power was not a factor on the ride.

Unfortunately, rules cannot address human behavior, so they try to compensate by governing the vehicle or by requiring a license to prove competence. The same is true with “street legal” vehicles or vehicles that race in certain classes. Class definitions and rules are nothing new.

Speaking for myself, I am not a lawyer and I don’t want to be. I try to live within the boundaries that laws provide. I am probably in the minority, but I think that the class system is reasonable and that having reasonable restrictions on use is a good thing and actually benefits us all in the long run. They may not be perfect, and I am certain that many don’t agree with them, but they can be changed and made more or less restrictive, so I feel that it is up to us as participants to ride responsibility if we want to preserve the freedom that we have and have any chance of expanding that freedom in the future.
 
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Stefan Mikes said:
Wrong. Your machine is of a given Class. Not can be set.

It is like you would try to set a big truck to be a car.
Click to expand...
Not sure that's an entirely accurate statement. For example, what if the owner of a class II temporarily removes the throttle? Wouldn't that ebike cease to be a class II? As to whether a class III would become a class I if the top speed is revised downward in the electronics, I suppose that's somewhat debatable.
 
Rexlion said:
Not sure that's an entirely accurate statement. For example, what if the owner of a class II temporarily removes the throttle? Wouldn't that ebike cease to be a class II? As to whether a class III would become a class I if the top speed is revised downward in the electronics, I suppose that's somewhat debatable.
Click to expand...
Further logic pointing to the fact the class laws are a total joke.

The way the bike left the factory has NO bearing on it's current class as described by the current "rules". Modifications done by anyone able to watch YouTube are common. Class stickers available everywhere for 5.00 bucks or less, making them a waste of time to even look for.
 
Rexlion said:
Not sure that's an entirely accurate statement. For example, what if the owner of a class II temporarily removes the throttle? Wouldn't that ebike cease to be a class II? As to whether a class III would become a class I if the top speed is revised downward in the electronics, I suppose that's somewhat debatable.
Click to expand...
It is in his Poland as they are told how it is and further more, they will like it.
That said you can't blame their government to limiting the masses to 250w and 15mph after what's been said on this forum.
 
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