Newbie

[jodi2]

There are downsides of CF bikes:

• Very expensive
• CF is brittle and bike components such as frame can crack and break; which is potentially not only very expensive but also dangerous
• Mechanical work with CF bike requires appropriate tools and care as not to damage CF components.
• It is the best to ride a CF bike on perfect roads...

That said: CF bikes is the thing for professional cyclists but not really for everyone. In the world of e-bikes, it is not always the more money the better product. More money can buy you a professional but not necessarily practical product.

I would also slightly disagree here... ;-)
Your final summary is fine, I CF is not really necessary for all day use and even less with an ebike.
But I have to disagree to ALL your downsides.
- Very Expensive - It depends, I would call it "expensive". If you buy a Expert or S-Works Creo for $10000 or more or a swiss Stromer ebike für $10000, $1000 for the CF Frame (which isn't available for the Stromer, as it would not make much sense on such a heavy bike) would be peanuts.
- CF is more sensible: This is a common prejudice I also had until a few years ago. Here is a very nice video from the producer Simpon (first alloy frame, then CF, then CF single tube, look until the end):

Maybe some of you can understand German or Youtube offer some translation to Englisch. The commenst of the producer are very nice and objective about both types of material and he knows them very well. In short: A well made CF frame is stronger against damages/"external forces" in the beginning and supports overall sometimes more and not less force. And it also shows smaller damages (material/frames are made like this), to announce possible weaknesses/failures. So CF fails/has fatal damages to due the slightest contact and has te be exchanged after the slightest touch and no small dmaage is visible, all of this prejduices are untrue today.
- Mechanical work with CF: You should always have in mind or check the right torque for your screws, also with alloy frames/parts. It's no rocket science and doesn't need a fortune, buy some tools with a torque meter for $20-50, that's it.
- It is the best to ride a CF bike on perfect roads: This point I do not understand. You said yourself that CF frames dampen bad roads, so the opposite is true. Or do you refer to the sensibility of CF frames? As stated above, this is not true (anymore...).

Still no need to spend the extra money for many people and purposes and just rare use of the bike. The CF difference is not that big. But also no reason to be afraid of it.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

No need to go in quarrel Jodi. I'm not an expert. Isn't it true, however, that CF ages badly and becomes fragile after several years? Isn't it true you better inspect the frame for dents before you go for a ride? Isn't it true carbon components are NOT under Specialized warranty but aluminium is?

 

[jodi2]

Isn't it true, however, that CF ages badly and becomes fragile after several years?

Ask me again in several years... ;-) I guess too much sun/UV rays is bad for CF and the glue, I wouldn't take CF for an bike that is stored outside but I guess no one does also due to theft.
And the same was told 20 years ago about alloy frames, that they don't last very long. I used one (ok, totally oversized frame) for 15 years. Apart from this one, I've never used a bicycle much more than ten years. On the other hand if I see some friends with very nice old steel frames, it's impressive that these frames still last. But usually they are heavy and with very old, bad and uncomfortable stuff for braking, shifting or suspension. Upgrades here are often very expensive/not worth the effort or not possible due to missing mounting points or something similiar.
It's terrible that we waste so much energy, water and ressources in short lasting products like smartphones and today as well bicycles. But honestly spoken, I wouldn't really enjoy to use still the smartphone I had 10 years ago or my bicycle 20 years ago...

Isn't it true you better inspect the frame for dents before you go for a ride?

I don't know if it's true or not, but I never do it (and after seeing this video even less...) and I use my Creo and my acoustic gravel bike quite roughly offroad.
I also don't know anyone who does this today. For MTB frames carbon has become quite common, for the better models maybe more than alloy today. And these are strained even harder. And I doubt here as well that the riders look after their CF frame after very small bouncing stone. I would to it after a serious crash, falling on a rock or things like that. But with any kind of frame.

Isn't it true carbon components are NOT under Specialized warranty but aluminium is?

I never heard of this, it would surprise me. Do you have a link or a source for that?
Several brands offer lifetime warranty for their CF frames (like Orbea). What seems very optmistic for me, I'm curious what will happen claiming that warranty after 20 years daily use with a yet broken CF frame...

 

[Stefan Mikes]

OK, Jodi, thank you so much for enlightening me. You know what? I've just touched a Cannondale Topstone Neo Carbon Lefty 3 at my local LBS...

 

[jodi2]

And did it break? ;-)

 

[Art Deco]

When the OP returns, hopefully after his first ebike ride, do tell about the EBR /offtopic/ problem we have . But thanks for stepping in .See you in a Carbon Fiber thread.

 

[jondillinger]

There are also other brands outside of Specialized. I would start by making a list of requirements or at least how you plan to ride the bike. Is it for commuting and runs to the store or just pleasure riding and exercise? Will you ride only on roads or also trails and dirt? You said the area is fairly flat. How far will you ride in a session? How important is the weight of the bike? A lighter bike will mean a smaller motor and battery. With your budget, you have a lot of choices.

pretty much pleasure ~ tho might start going back and forth to the office ~ all roads

 

[jondillinger]

Creo SL Expert or Comp Carbon is more a question of you likings and your wallet. They both ride great. All Creo have race handle bars.
The Vado SL is the cheaper alloy brother of the Creo with straight handle bars. Most people and less experienced riders prefer straight handle bars. Normally one chooses race handle bars if he/she is used to it or wants to be a little bit fast at higher speed/less barn door in the wind. Don't take race handle bars just because it looks fancy and more sporty. It's an active decision and the most important between Creo and Vado SL. But you don't need to be Eddie Merckx to use race handle bars, one can get to it also later in life (I started with them with 45 years).


I would slightly disagree here. Yes, you get less power with an SL drive. But you get a much much lighter bike which is more fun and easier to ride. And this is also interesting/important escpecially less experienced riders who don't need or even don't want more power. That's why we bought a Vado SL for my wife, not that experienced or sportive on the bike (and of course because her former ebike weighed 55% of her... :-( ).
It depends also an your goal, more cycling with some help sometimes or riding as fast as possible. Here in middle Europe most Class 3 ebikes/Speed-Pedelecs with 45km/h motor limit are used as commuters, for transport, to get to work. Much more flexible, less stress, with fresh air, some nature, sometimes faster than with car or bus/train and some sport. But sport is not the key goal, not the only goal. If you can have more motor power and save 2x 5 minutes every day or sweat a little bit less when entering the office, you go for it. That's where my Stromer with 500 watts and 1000 watts peak is great. But for fun and sportive riding with less motor support and in more difficult paths it's a heavy clumsy monster.

My question is, why do you think you need an ebike? If sport/cardio is the main goal and you are not in a hurry (for example to get to work) maybe a pure/acoustic bike would be better? ebikes are heavier, more expensive and more parts subject to failures and more maintenance.
This is an open question. As I ride an ebike/a Creo as well, I'm surely not the one to prohibit you one. But I already know why I ride one and where it is better for me then an acoustic bike...

my thought was if i get tired out on a long ride (would be nice to have some assistance on the way back
: )

price isn't an issue ~ how much maintenance is required on the Creo ~ and it something i can do myself ?

 

[Art Deco]

I won't tell you that price can't be an issue ..it usually is, but the fastest way through the maze is to find out what you want, then you can be prepared for what it costs.

 

[Art Deco]

Money (alone) won't buy you happiness, but ...

 

[RunForTheHills]

pretty much pleasure ~ tho might start going back and forth to the office ~ all roads

If you are going to carry stuff with you, you could put a backpack on but the best way is to clip a pannier to a rack on the back of the bike. The Creo isn't the ideal bike for that purpose. I also like to be more upright when I am commuting to better be able to see and navigate traffic. Of course, there is no rule against buying more than one bike.

 

[RunForTheHills]

my thought was if i get tired out on a long ride (would be nice to have some assistance on the way back
: )

price isn't an issue ~ how much maintenance is required on the Creo ~ and it something i can do myself ?

Maintenance is lubricating the chain periodically. Some people clean the chain before lubing it, but I don't. I just wipe it down. You will eventually need to replace the chain and rear cogs (cassette). Bike maintenance is something you can do yourself. Most of the specialty tools aren't that expensive and there are lots of Youtube videos to show you how to do it.

 

[RunForTheHills]

A bike you could look at for commuting is the Watt Wagons Helios. By the time you have loaded it up with a belt drive (no lubing!), Kindernay IGH, and upgraded controller, you will be in the same price range as the Creo. It is a carbon bike, but is heavier because it has a bigger battery and controller. It also has a rack and is designed for commuting. All the components used on it are high end. There are also DIY options if you really want to learn how to work on a bike. The thing to keep in mind about bicycles is that, like motorcycles, there are different styles of bike for different purposes. You wouldn't buy a ninja style bike for long distance touring.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Maintenance means: cleaning the bike; lubing the chain; replacing the chain when it has stretched to the allowable limit; occasionally replacing the cassette; more often replacing brake pads.

Watt Wagon Helios is a DIY e-bike made by a one-man company and equipped with a Chinese monster motor and large battery: it is heavy. I thought the OP looked for a fitness machine allowing him to do cardio workouts and commuting, not being "ridden by the bike". (If the OP were to ride a Watt Wagon, he could as well ride a motorbike). While Specialized is an organization, one of the biggest and most respected bike brands of the world, making electrically assisted bikes.

 

[jondillinger]

wow you guys are a wealth of information ~ its not like the 992 forum ~ u post a question there to the Porsche crew and its a month before you get a reply ~ really appreciate everyone here
yea maintenance i understand now ~ basically i preform more on my motorcycle ~ i guess the reason why i chose Speicalized it that ill get a workout plus have a little assist when I'm dragging .....

i think the local shop has a Creo and a Vado ~ ill go take a look this weekend

 

[Stefan Mikes]

i think the local shop has a Creo and a Vado ~ ill go take a look this weekend

Demo ride them if you can, Jon!

 

[kahn]

If you are going to carry stuff with you, you could put a backpack on but the best way is to clip a pannier to a rack on the back of the bike. The Creo isn't the ideal bike for that purpose. I also like to be more upright when I am commuting to better be able to see and navigate traffic. Of course, there is no rule against buying more than one bike.

I may be living in CF's past. I have a Trek Madonne. Trek was very clear that I could not put a rear rack on that bike although I could have a seat post (replaced the CF post with a steel version) mounted rack with not more than 10 pounds.

Can the CF Creo's support a rack and panniers and how much weight? I went with the Aluminum Creo so I could put a rack and pannier (single at the moment) on it.

 

[Art Deco]

I may be living in CF's past. I have a Trek Madonne. Trek was very clear that I could not put a rear rack on that bike although I could have a seat post (replaced the CF post with a steel version) mounted rack with not more than 10 pounds.

Can the CF Creo's support a rack and panniers and how much weight? I went with the Aluminum Creo so I could put a rack and pannier (single at the moment) on it.

.

 

[RunForTheHills]

Maintenance means: cleaning the bike; lubing the chain; replacing the chain when it has stretched to the allowable limit; occasionally replacing the cassette; more often replacing brake pads.

Watt Wagon Helios is a DIY e-bike made by a one-man company and equipped with a Chinese monster motor and large battery: it is heavy. I thought the OP looked for a fitness machine allowing him to do cardio workouts and commuting, not being "ridden by the bike". (If the OP were to ride a Watt Wagon, he could as well ride a motorbike). While Specialized is an organization, one of the biggest and most respected bike brands of the world, making electrically assisted bikes.

Well, I wouldn't call it a DIY bike. Even though the owner posts on this forum he does have employees. He is not a one man show. It is a custom carbon fiber frame with an integrated battery and internal cable routing. The big disadvantage is that it is online order only. You won't be able to test ride it or get local support from an LBS. The other options at the high end tend to be Euro-centric and have to conform to the more restrictive ebike regulations in Europe. I know you have a personal bias against Bafang motors, but the Ultra is a good motor that I wouldn't mind having on a bike, particularly with WW upgraded German controller. The Bafang motor is heavier than a Bosch or Shimano, but you can get a lot more power out of the Bafang with the upgraded controller.

 

[Rincon]

It is the best to ride a CF bike on perfect roads...

You have so much great advice, other than this last bullet point.

I have three carbon fiber bikes: a 10 year old Trek Superfly MTB, a Salsa Warroad gravel bike, and the S-Works Creo which I’ve set up for gravel. The two reasons I bought CF was weight and to tame imperfect roads, off road in fact. I’ve never ridden a smoother, more supple bike than the Warroad on gravel, even compared to full suspension. On perfect roads the handling is like a sports car. Bring on the imperfect!