New Voltbike Yukon 750 spotted

[vincent]

amazing you guys are running your tires so low all the time, i thought that was only for soft ground like sand...

my rover is usually at 24psi....
i do think the inside of the tire is wearing more and i should lower it a little to get more even wear but mine rides fine at 24- but this is mostly pavement

 

[SuperGoop]

amazing you guys are running your tires so low all the time, i thought that was only for soft ground like sand...

my rover is usually at 24psi....
i do think the inside of the tire is wearing more and i should lower it a little to get more even wear but mine rides fine at 24- but this is mostly pavement

Perhaps because I don't weigh a lot and don't carry a lot of gear. Also, maybe our pressure gauges are inaccurate. I tried higher 15 - 20 psi, but it was too harsh for me. More importantly, I didn't notice significant battery or speed efficiency. I went back to lower psi for the comfort. Anything lower that 7 psi, steering and handling feels sluggish. I now ride between 8-10 psi.

 

[SuperGoop]

Well I'll be damned... don't believe everything you read on the web, uh? If I had known, I would have ordered the same pump as you. Got a more expensive one that shipped from the UK (with possible taxes and duty)! Got "scammed" by ordering on probikekit.ca and not confirming if they were a canadian company before ordering.

I think the "secret" is to get a *floor* pump like the one I linked above. Mine is tiny and portable, but it is still a *floor* pump. Some portable pumps are handheld only. I tried them before. They were very inefficient and tiring.

 

[SuperGoop]

I have the same large iPhone 6+. With my iPhone case, it is very heavy, but the mount holds it tight. Make SURE you tighten both nuts. During your ride, quickly check (every now-and-then) to make sure the four claws are not slowly opening from the vibrations. I happened to me once, because I forgot to tighten the smaller "locking" nut.

Also, use the thicker rubber lining and clamp it tight. At first, I used the thinner lining and thought it was tight enough, but my iPhone rotated from the bumps.

P.S. If you look at my picture above, I also use the portable powerbank beside the iPhone holder for extra support.

 

[SuperGoop]

I found cheap flashlight holder all over eBay, and bought the powerbank to fit the flashlight holder. Added a zip-tie to secure powerbank tightly. Also, make sure your handlebar is not greasy/oily. Perhaps wipe it down with alcohol.

 

[PortPerryBob]

I think the "secret" is to get a *floor* pump like the one I linked above. Mine is tiny and portable, but it is still a *floor* pump. Some portable pumps are handheld only. I tried them before. They were very inefficient and tiring.

Hello,
I have been worrying about flatting out somewhere far from home and looked at a number of small pumps. Finally I did a search on amazon.ca and found something that looked pretty interesting: a battery operated portable pump which you can see here. https://www.amazon.ca/ENGREPO-Hand-...and+held+12v+electric+portable+air+compressor

I ordered it today and will post a short review when it comes, probably next week. Also, on the Amazon site there are reviews from a number of people and most seem very positive and there is a video review of this pump.

Please note that this is the first reply to a post that I have ever done, so please excuse any mistakes I may have made.

Regards.

 

[PortPerryBob]

I looked it up now that I had more time - looks promising! please keep us posted with your review. What size tire/pressure are you looking at?

Hello,
I have a Voltbike Yukon 750 with the 26x4 inch tires. I had originally ordered a Lezyne HV mountain bike pump from my LBS. It was CAD $89.99 before taxes. The quality looked good online and there were some favourable reviews, but when the pump finally arrived at the shop, I told them I didn't want it since I had seen the portable electric pump on amazon.ca, and it was cheaper. I went to amazon.com and there were quite a few very positive reviews about this pump, so I ordered it. It may well be that using a mini floor type portable pump will inflate a large tire like the ones on the Yukon, but, I am soon to be 68, I'm overweight and out of shape and I know that for me it would not be fun pumping the tire up from zero psi. Also, this bike is so heavy and I carry so much in terms of weight (tools, water, lights and batteries, etc.) that for the few extra ounces that this battery operated pump would add to the overall gross vehicle weight, to me it will be well worth it if I ever flat out somewhere far from home. However, I won't know how good this pump is for me until it arrives and I give it a try.
Something else crossed my mind. I have a CAA membership, and they have been running some commercials on tv stating that their programs cover the member and not the vehicle. So, if my Yukon 750 broke down for some reason, I wonder if they would come out to pick me up????? I must give them a call to find out. If they do, it could be a real stress reliever if fixing a flat poses a problem for someone who has little or no experience do so.
Here's keeping my fingers crossed.
Regards

 

[ace20ri]

Nice work @SuperGoop as usual! Great info on the add-ons. I definitely would like to add the ability to record my rides.

Since I haven't posted in a while here is an update to my current sense resistor swap. It was successful but had some temporary set backs. Here are some pics of the swap...sorry I was caught up in the moment and did not take a lot of them. If the solder job looks a little crappy it is because the pcba has conformal coating which sucks to remove.

Existing current sense resistor:

Current sense resistor removed:

New current sense resistor (Vishay 3W 0.005Ohm):

I improved the solder job after I took these pics (promise!). I also added more solder around the FET pads and the FET rail (right side of the picture above). The Vishay 3W current sense resistor improved the rated current to 24.5A so no more worrying about pushing the controller to hard (besides worrying about the FETS and capacitors but they seem to be pretty robust based on my research). Now I did run into an issue taking the bike out after this update. The motor would cut out every time I tried to accelerate from rest. The power reading would ramp to 500-600W and then cut out and start from 0. After it restarted then it would accelerate no problem. I was worried that resistance change caused to much ripple current and caused the motor to trip due to under voltage. BUT after unplugging the battery and fully charging it and reconnecting it seemed to have corrected itself. Not really sure how that is the case (I'm asking my electrical engineer coworkers to explain). I have been able to accelerate from rest without any cut outs and it's great. I can feel the difference on some of the hills I climb during my commute. I really want to take it to Half Moon Bay beach to really test it out.

One thing I did notice when I accessed the current parameter in the LCD display is that I can increase the current to 30A now. I was pretty sure that 20A was the previous limit. I'm not sure if it our controller is smart enough to know that it received an upgrade but somehow it does. @SuperGoop can you confirm that your bike max current setting is 20A? Or can you increase it to 30A (obviously don't leave it at 30A)?

Either way yay for me! All that I am missing is the ability to tweak the controller programming from the back end...need George's help with that! Since I live in Silicon Valley, I would really like to take advantage of every possible avenue to increase my speed for commuting.

I am looking into the magnetics side of our motor to see if we are truly limited by the windings of the coils or if Voltbike is limiting us due to country/state laws. I do feel that since we purchased the bikes we should have the ability to change the bike to how we see fit easily.

Lastly, here are some pics of my Classic 2.0 Garment pannier for commuting (https://www.twowheelgear.com/products/commuter-garment-pannier):

I have changed the bike a lot since these pics but they work for showing the pannier. Needless to say, I love my purchase and glad that I made it.

Okay, really lastly for this post if anyone is taking a trip to Cabo San Lucas, Mexico in the near future I highly recommend booking the Ebike outing with Cabo Adventures. They have a bunch of RadRovers (the Yukon is way better IMO) and take you for a 2 hour ride up and down the Pacific ocean coast. You then go to a remote pavilion to make real Mexican quesadillas and learn how to make Mexican margaritas! Ask for Hector the Protector! (I do not get anything for referals just wanted to share because my fiancé and I had a blast!).

 

[SuperGoop]

@ace20ri Yes, my LCD allows me to increase the current to 30A also.

I experimented at 20A, and my wattage immediately jumps up to almost 1,000W on full throttle. I didn't dare go any higher, because (thanks to your pictures), I see that the rated maximum current is only 20A (10A nominal). I am now experimenting at 10A (reducing from the default 15A) to conserve on battery. Full throttle now max out at around 500W (instead of 750W), which is hardly noticeable to me.

Basically, by reducing the current to 10A, I am avoiding the "jack-rabbit" starts from standstill, which we all know is inefficient. Once I get up to speed, I only need ~100-200W with PAS anyways, so 10A current is more than enough for that.

In conclusion, unless someone craves for the rapid acceleration, or you ride with lots of hills, gear or weight, then setting the current to 10A (ie. 500W) is enough, and the benefit is better battery life and less wear on the motor, and especially the controller.

 

[SuperGoop]

@ace20ri I know little about electronics, but it sounds like the cut outs are due to low voltage detection (41V?). When you fully charged the battery, maybe the voltage has enough extra (54V) to avoid cutouts.

I wonder if your "mod" has somehow lowered the voltage, perhaps from higher resistance?

 

[ace20ri]

@ace20ri I know little about electronics, but it sounds like the cut outs are due to low voltage detection (41V?). When you fully charged the battery, maybe the voltage has enough extra (54V) to avoid cutouts.

I wonder if your "mod" has somehow lowered the voltage, perhaps from higher resistance?

@SuperGoop Yes I thought the same about the low voltage cutoff by the controller but my battery was fully charged when the motor cut out so I'm not sure what was going on. I will keep monitoring the performance to see if the motor starts to cut out again.

 

[ace20ri]

@ace20ri Yes, my LCD allows me to increase the current to 30A also.

I experimented at 20A, and my wattage immediately jumps up to almost 1,000W on full throttle. I didn't dare go any higher, because (thanks to your pictures), I see that the rated maximum current is only 20A (10A nominal). I am now experimenting at 10A (reducing from the default 15A) to conserve on battery. Full throttle now max out at around 500W (instead of 750W), which is hardly noticeable to me.

Basically, by reducing the current to 10A, I am avoiding the "jack-rabbit" starts from standstill, which we all know is inefficient. Once I get up to speed, I only need ~100-200W with PAS anyways, so 10A current is more than enough for that.

In conclusion, unless someone craves for the rapid acceleration, or you ride with lots of hills, gear or weight, then setting the current to 10A (ie. 500W) is enough, and the benefit is better battery life and less wear on the motor, and especially the controller.

For commuting I definitely like the faster/jackrabbit starts so that I can beat the road bikes at the traffic lights since they take a little time to getting up to full speed. I also travel up some hills that have lights or stop signs so I need a little more torque to get going from rest.

I agree that our motors are more than torquey enough to drop the current down so that rms power is 500W for most applications. Great thing about our bikes is the ability to adjust them based on our preferences.

 

[ace20ri]

Quick update, I had the wrong resistor value (0.001Ohm instead of 0.002Ohm). I thought that I ordered the correct value but I didn't. Fortunately I ordered 2 resistors so I put them in series to get the correct value and all is well. No cut outs anymore! I need to place a thermocouple on the motor and the controller now to see what temperatures they are seeing to make sure that I am not pushing to hard. Right now I set the current to 16A but I tried out 20A and no issues regarding cut outs but I am sure the temperatures seen by the controller and motor were high.

Side note I am thinking about swapping out the controller and display for an Infineon controller and Cycle Analyst. Way more tweaking allowed and will give me the ability to increase my top speed. A coworker has a 36V 30A Infineon controller with a Bafang 500W motor and can top out at 26mph with throttle only. So 48V 30A controller with our Bafang 750W motor should beat that. Stay tuned.

I think Voltbike should consider going the Infineon route for future bikes. As long as they preset the parameters for the relevant regions their liability should be covered. JMHO.

9-Fet Infineon Controller
V3 Cycle Analyst

 

[SuperGoop]

@ace20ri Love what you are doing, glad we have someone with this kind of knowledge and resources in-house. Not something I would dare to attempt anytime soon, but still very interesting to follow your mods.

When your battery needs replacing, do you think you will replace the 18650 batteries yourself (saving significant costs), and perhaps using a higher amperage batteries (say 3500 mAh instead of 2600 mAh)? Is this possible? Will the Battery Management System (BMS) automatically adjust to different battery ratings?

 

[ace20ri]

Thanks @SuperGoop It's in my DNA to tinker. I'll try to keep updating as I tinker some more.

When the day comes that the cells want to retire I would like to take a look at replacing them with some 2170 cells that aren't available for public purchase
If the volume does not lend itself well to that form factor then I would swap them with 18650 cells that aren't available for public purchase

Not sure how the Yukon's Reention BMS works but typically they monitor the cell voltage to determine state of charge (SOC) along with an array of other features (cell balancing, charge/discharge current limiting, etc.). Increasing the Ah would definitely increase the charge time without swapping chargers. I'm sure that I will try and email Reention if they programmed the BMS based on cell chemistry. All else fails, since I would end up building the pack myself I would probably replace the BMS!

 

[ace20ri]

Hi @america94, no problem asking questions. I did not find anything about your OE controller. Identifying the wires can be tricky since there is not a standard and there are so many variants of controllers out there. If Teo will not give you the schematic you can try my approach for my swap by tugging on the wires routed on your bike to determine the signals. Disconnect them one by one and try each feature as well. That will definitely determine the wire signals

If you are looking for suggestions on replacement controllers, I really haven't found a better overall solution for DIYers than Infineon controllers. Programmable and use pretty quality parts.

Happy mod'n!

 

[Areviaki]

Can you explain this a little bit? How did you get "480W"? Did you multiply 48V x 10A current? You said it can be pushed to 16A... does that mean the motor peaks at 48Vx16A=768W? A freshly charged battery is around 54.6V, right? So 54.6Vx16A=874W peak?

Most importantly, how did you push it to 16A, when the "Rated Current is only 10A? How did you know it was running at 16A? Thanks again!

For reference, my limited knowledge is that:

- Individual 18650 cells run from 3.0V (dead) to 4.2V (fully charged). Nominal "resting" voltage is 3.7V.

- The Yukon 750 uses quality Panasonic 2600 mAh cells. That is why our battery is rated at 10.4 Ah (4 bundles x 2600 mAh)

- In our bike's battery, we have 4 bundles of 13 cells = 52 Panasonic 18650 cells.

Voltages are:
(13 cells x 3.0V/cell) = 39.0V (dead)
(13 cells x 3.7V/cell) = 48.0V (nominal)
(13 cells x 4.2V/cell) = 54.6V (fully charged)

- This is the battery standard we use: (Link Removed - No Longer Exists) There is a longer version, but we use the shorter 440mm/52 cells version. The longer version is 505mm/65 cells

- Yukon 750's controller cuts off at 41.0V to protect the cells.

Does this low voltage cutoff create the 04E Error? And if so, should it become more noticeable at three battery bars and less? I'm constantly getting 04E errors after the battery hits three bars, and each time the 04E error pops up the battery drops a bar each time.

 

[SuperGoop]

Does this low voltage cutoff create the 04E Error? And if so, should it become more noticeable at three battery bars and less? I'm constantly getting 04E errors after the battery hits three bars, and each time the 04E error pops up the battery drops a bar each time.

Yes, the 04E Error is the low battery error. It pops up when your battery drops below 41V set by the controller. Whenever you stress the battery (eg. going up a steep hill on full throttle), the battery voltage will drop temporary. When the stress is relieved, the voltage returns.

When your battery is already weak (say around 45V remaining), additional stress may drop it below the 41v cut-off mark, but only temporarily. When you encounter the 04E Error, try not to use full throttle from a standstill (ie. Jack Rabbit starts). Just slowly ramp up the power.

Also, keep in mind that the battery indicator is not linear. From my long-term experience with my Yukon 750:

5 bars: 100%
4 bars: 60%
3 bars: 30%
2 bars: 10%
1 bar: 0%

 

[gcoop]

Absolute noob to the e-bike scene. Sold my motorbike & bought a yukon.

Opened the box & very impressed. Riding it is a ton of fun & have barely had time to really investigate but... man the pedal assist is aggressive and too powerful IMO to offer a workout. Now i know there must be a setting to reduce the pedal assist. Could someone tell me how to adjust?

I'm clear entering the speed code default # to access the speed settings but not sure which is the abbreviation for the reduced pedal assist.

Many thanks!

 

[SuperGoop]

Instead of the default PAS 1-5, try 0-9. This will give you finer increments of PAS to suit you. Alternatively, you can reduce the max Current from the default 15A to 10A or less. This will limit the max power to the motor. 15A = 750W, 10A = 500W, 5A = 250W, etc.

Here is as much as I can gather from various sources for the settings:

S7 - (km/mile)

bL1 - backlight brightness display (3)

OFf - auto time(min) display off (5)

W d - wheel diameter (26)

bU0 - voltage set (48V)

PSd - password (1919)

SPL - speed limit (45km) - gov cuts off at 32km

CUL - MAX Current Limit set (default 15A)

HAL - Magnetic Pole numbers of speed sensor (default=1. Use Unknown ???)

ASs(AS5) - 1-15 ??? (default 12) # of Cadence magnets?

Hd6 - sets the throttle to 6km/h; 1=ON, 0=OFF (default 0)

HdP - toggles the throttle power/current level to match the PAS level. 1=ON; 0=OFF (default 0, full power independent of PAS level)

PAs - levels of assist (set to 0-9; default 1-5)