New Reflexes...

[mrgold35]

There seems to be a speed lock out though on mine anyway. I can not go more than a snails pace on PAS 1 without it going to zero assist. Is this what you are seeing?

Same for me at PAS 1, pretty much anything over 4 mph seems to put the watts at zero. Not much difference between PAS 0 or PAS 1 the way I ride. PAS 2 feels a little better, wider power range before hitting zero watts, and usable even up to 12-13 mph range. I have no problems maintaining 17-20 mph on level ground at PAS 3 with the new controller. I have to up the PAS to 4/5 or use the throttle on steep hills with the new controller since the watts are limited at each PAS level.

Overall, much smoother ride with the lower power output at each PAS level. Feels like a bike with motor assist instead of a motor bike with pedal assist with the smoother application and gradual ramping up of power instead of "pedal to the metal" like before.

 

[Lost]

I wonder if it would be essentially better if the power levels were there for each level, but NO speed cut off until 20 mph for any power level. Would that not be an effective way of handling it? It's a bafang setup, it must be programmable by mere mortals, just have to wait a year till warranty is gone. Then again, I know nothing about programing firmware in the unit. Autopilots in drones on the other hand.....

 

[BVC]

Not sure what Mr golds controller is doing but mine gives power regardless of speed. I even made a video about it.. So power is based on PAS level - not speed. And it will deliver power regardless of speed (up to 20/24mph)

 

[Lost]

Not sure what Mr golds controller is doing but mine gives power regardless of speed. I even made a video about it.. So power is based on PAS level - not speed. And it will deliver power regardless of speed (up to 20/24mph)

Oh man I would LOVE it if mine worked that way!
PAS 1 is useless, it cuts out at a fairly low speed. And my rover is brand new. Maybe they don't open boxes and update them.
Sucks I will have to pay $25 plus shipping and be without, but I will have to do that.
Having had both, do you decisively like one over the other? I imagine you cruise on 2 all day long?

 

[Thom473]

I have the radmini that has both a different motor and perhaps a different controller. PAS1 and 2 have very low watts delivered; 1 never shows any watts delivered (so under 50) but I can tell it is helping vs PAS0. PAS3 kicks the motor in the pants by delivering 450-550 watts depending on speed (after 13 mph it delivers less and less). PAS4 is only slightly higher than PAS3 with 500-600 watts and speeds of 16 or higher diminishes the delivery. PAS5 gets you to 19 mph where it starts delivering less than the max of 750 watts. These are the watts and speeds I've seen, of course I don't know for sure what the controller is designed to do. We have lots of hills in Benicia so I usually am in PAS3 or 4. The mini's smaller wheels gives it better torque for riding up slopes. Yes, I exceed the owners manual recommended 500 watts on hills, but I need the help.

 

[walawn]

@BVC too funny

 

[mrgold35]

Not sure what Mr golds controller is doing but mine gives power regardless of speed. I even made a video about it.. So power is based on PAS level - not speed. And it will deliver power regardless of speed (up to 20/24mph)

I think what I was seeing was the motor cut off once I reached +20 mph. I use my Radrover for work commuting mostly and it is downhill for about 4 miles once I leave my house. I can cruise at 20-23 mph sometimes at PAS 0 on certain stretches. Once I get to the motor cutoff speed in any PAS 1-5, the wattage starts to drop and hits 000 watts.

 

[vincent]

bvc just saw your video, thanks for taking the time to do that

maybe for people going faster/commuting it will save power
but for me i am sure that new controller will not work well and will not save battery

i have the older one like thom on both bikes- although this is not the first controllers where they were crazy fast right off the bat in every pas
in theory my bikes should be exactly the same, i thought they have the same controller and wiring set up

i do think the pas is similar but the throttle on the mini is awful
actually did a 22 mile ride on it yesterday and was not happy at all, this was on a paved bike path- most of my riding before on it was on gravel/dirt roads and think we were going slower so pas 2 was ok

yesterday needed level 3 to be about 10-12mph but it jumps quickly to 14 or 16mph from level 2- where it cuts out at 8-8.5
so 3 was useless and the throttle is so jumpy it is useless for trying to cruise at all or even use it for 100-150 watts to get up a small hill

you get 300-500 inconsistently each twist..

what is weird is the throttle on the rover is great, smooth ramp up and i can hold it at any speed...
have no idea why they are so different in the throttles

in the winter i ride a lot of flats or sloping areas, lots of pavement and routinely get 45 miles or more out of my rover- this was with my tires at 27psi....

the mini has not gotten as much riding but i have gotten close to 40 on it a couple of times
on both bikes this is not running it down past 2 bars, so i dont really know how far they will go


the mini seems to have more issues with the disc brakes getting out of whack and dragging, screwing up my mileage though

i am very ready for some 20 and 26 inch fat bikes 48 volt, 750 or 1000 watt with good torque sensing pas or an excellent 9 level cadence sensing pas, hydraulic brakes and throttle override

if rad ever offers upgrades on the brakes to hydraulic i will do that asap

i know there are some fat bikes with hydraulic and torque but on the big bikes i am holding out for someone to have the smaller frame sizes, really dont want to buy another 26 inch fat bike that is too big for me, where i have to change out handlebars etc to try and make it fit

this is the only draw of the bulls and haibikes to me

sorry to go off on a tangent with this thread

 

[Thom473]

I've been riding and experimenting with keeping balance in traffic (what the thread was originally about). For me, it is still better to down PAS to 2 or 1 to keep riding while nearly stopped. I did try a few times in PAS3 and "ride the brake" but it was a bit of a lurching sensation as the motor kicked in to be suddenly cut off by the brake. Good to be able to do it in an unexpected situation, though; so it was good to practice. Basically, just have to keep my head on a swivel and stay aware of my surroundings (which is always a good idea on the road-bicycle, motorcycle, car or pedestrian). With cold weather gloves it is more difficult to hit the controller buttons, but it'll be warmer soon. BTW, I looked at the ser# of my frame and I think my radmini was built in April 2016 even though it was delivered to me in December.

 

[Lost]

I'm getting pretty (very very) annoyed at the speed cutout on pas. I would like to be able to have the level 2 assist at higher speeds. So much so I am considering any alternatives that anyone could come up with to drop the limits. I love the rover except for this glaring fault, and had I known it would bother me, would consider a competitor product.

WHY THE INCREDIBLY STUPID SPEED LIMIT?

I want a little bit of assist at say 10 mph. That's not possible with pas. Say a consistant 200 watt boost at 10 to 12 mph so I can get a little bit of exercise at that speed.

 

[vincent]

I thought the new controllers did not have a speed limit but maybe I'm wrong

I am different than you, I like having the PAS cut out in level two at a certain speed

My controller works on Watts and speed I think, I thought the new controllers only worked on Watts

I would contact Radpower and see what they say

 

[RyanConway]

I'm getting pretty (very very) annoyed at the speed cutout on pas. I would like to be able to have the level 2 assist at higher speeds. So much so I am considering any alternatives that anyone could come up with to drop the limits. I love the rover except for this glaring fault, and had I known it would bother me, would consider a competitor product.

WHY THE INCREDIBLY STUPID SPEED LIMIT?

I want a little bit of assist at say 10 mph. That's not possible with pas. Say a consistant 200 watt boost at 10 to 12 mph so I can get a little bit of exercise at that speed.

You can replace the controller and LCD, the PAS brake cutoffs and throttles are compatible among ebikes. The cycle analyst 3 is the most programmable from what I understand- but even the bms battery LCD-6 and s12sh would provide more options, no top speed cut off and what they call "torque simulation" which is a fairly smart PAS from what I have read.

 

[RyanConway]

After my research so far, I'm definitely leaning the European way. Torque sensing PAS, no throttle. I want my future e-bike to be a normal bike first in every way possible, only adding some power to my own human power.

Depending on your use you may find a throttle more important that you would have initially thought. The downside to lower watt, torque sensing systems IME is that the gear spacing ends up being kinda weird. There isn't enough power to prevent you from having to downshift for a stop, but there is enough power to make you fly through the gears on your way back to speed. You aren't going to want to put a lot of pedal power in with all that shifting... With a PAS and a throttle, you can just drop one or 2 cogs, throttle and pedal back to speed and back to your cruising speed cog...

IMO if you are in a urban commuting environment, with a lot of stop and go, the throttle is a very good thing to have- even for those of us who are intent on putting in as much human power as possible. I really like it for commuting with clipless pedals, I can get to speed and click in...

 

[mrgold35]

I'm getting pretty (very very) annoyed at the speed cutout on pas. I would like to be able to have the level 2 assist at higher speeds. So much so I am considering any alternatives that anyone could come up with to drop the limits. I love the rover except for this glaring fault, and had I known it would bother me, would consider a competitor product.

WHY THE INCREDIBLY STUPID SPEED LIMIT?

I want a little bit of assist at say 10 mph. That's not possible with pas. Say a consistant 200 watt boost at 10 to 12 mph so I can get a little bit of exercise at that speed.

I wonder if you have the old controller programming? I think you can contact Rad Power Bikes to re-program your controller for $25+shipping.

Old controller: The hub motor is set to a mph cut-off and re-engages (sometimes at full power) if you dip below that mark. Very hard to maintain a smooth ride in lower PAS with the motor kicking in/out (noisy and jerky). Might have been a contributing factor in my wreck on my bike with the old controller program on a tight muddy corner. I think the hub motor kicked in with too much power in the turn at PAS 3 and the front tire lost grip and plowed straight ahead instead of turning.

PAS 1: 4 mph
PAS 2: 8 mph (500w peak, max PAS level for climbing steep hills)
PAS 3: 12 mph
PAS 4: 16 mph
PAS 5: 20 mph

New controller: Power stays consistent and level until the 20 mph motor cutoff. The wattage is slowly decreased once you reach motor cutoff speed. More like riding an escalator and you have the option to stand, walk up the stairs, or jog up to change your level of exercise. I find the bike's 7 gears can be matched to the PAS level and your pedal cadence rpm to find a sweet spot much easier compared to the old controller program.

PAS 1: 75 watts
PAS 2: 175 watts
PAS 3: 375 watts
PAS 4: 550 watts (new max PAS level for steep hills)
PAS 5: 750 watts

The new controller update is really worth it if you spend the majority of your riding at PAS 3 or lower. The only downside is having less peak power on hills at the lower PAS levels; but, the throttle takes care of that.

 

[Lost]

I wonder if you have the old controller programming? I think you can contact Rad Power Bikes to re-program your controller for $25+shipping.

Old controller: The hub motor is set to a mph cut-off and re-engages (sometimes at full power) if you dip below that mark. Very hard to maintain a smooth ride in lower PAS with the motor kicking in/out (noisy and jerky). Might have been a contributing factor in my wreck on my bike with the old controller program on a tight muddy corner. I think the hub motor kicked in with too much power in the turn at PAS 3 and the front tire lost grip and plowed straight ahead instead of turning.

PAS 1: 4 mph
PAS 2: 8 mph (500w peak, max PAS level for climbing steep hills)
PAS 3: 12 mph
PAS 4: 16 mph
PAS 5: 20 mph

New controller: Power stays consistent and level until the 20 mph motor cutoff. The wattage is slowly decreased once you reach motor cutoff speed. More like riding an escalator and you have the option to stand, walk up the stairs, or jog up to change your level of exercise. I find the bike's 7 gears can be matched to the PAS level and your pedal cadence rpm to find a sweet spot much easier compared to the old controller program.

PAS 1: 75 watts
PAS 2: 175 watts
PAS 3: 375 watts
PAS 4: 550 watts (new max PAS level for steep hills)
PAS 5: 750 watts

The new controller update is really worth it if you spend the majority of your riding at PAS 3 or lower. The only downside is having less peak power on hills at the lower PAS levels; but, the throttle takes care of that.

This is the way it SHOULD be! Why, then, with my Rad only a month old, did I get stuck with the old firmware?
Yuck.

 

[Lost]

Not sure what Mr golds controller is doing but mine gives power regardless of speed. I even made a video about it.. So power is based on PAS level - not speed. And it will deliver power regardless of speed (up to 20/24mph)

This. I want this!

 

[vincent]

lost i dont know why yours has the old controller, but i am sure rad will take care of you and swap it out- surely for no charge

i have a bike with the CA and it is pretty cool, but you will have to cut up wiring etc and void your warranty

definitely talk to rad and see if they will send you a new controller to try, they are easy to swap out

try that first

i tried the new controller on my radmini and did not like it at all but according to the specs it should do exactly what you want

 

[Lost]

One call does it all.
They are sending out a controller to swap out.

I will say the support of this company is top notch!

 

[BVC]

Bummer. I'm thinking I'm willing of swapping out with someone with an older controller for my newer controller.

I'm not sure I'm a fan of the new controller.

Wish I would have read your reply earlier, Lost.

 

[Lost]

Bummer. I'm thinking I'm willing of swapping out with someone with an older controller for my newer controller.

I'm not sure I'm a fan of the new controller.

Wish I would have read your reply earlier, Lost.

So I have watched your video a few times (THANKS!). What don't you like about the new one?
A new controller is $80, I suppose I could sell it to you and just pay it instead of shipping it back.

I want to go PAS 2 but 10 mph, so that I am getting SOME exercise, but the electric is essentially erasing the weight of the Rover.