New Juggernaut Ultra Beast - Unable to Program - Display cable fitting is a different shape

[Ridetoglide]

Hey Guys!

So I received my new Ultra Beast yesterday, assembled, tested it and was excited about hooking up the laptop to upload the current controller settings to see what changes i would possibly make after riding it a little. When i disconnected the display port to hook up the programing adaptor i noticed the fitting was a different shape, it was V shaped instead of round.

I remember reading that Bafang was switching to a new proprietary design, i think it was called Canbus but I'm not sure about that or not. I am hoping I just need a different shape display cable.

Does anybody know if or where we are able to purchase the new adaptor cable needed to program the Ultra controller? I hope its not the case that Bafang made the new motor unprogrammable.

Attached are photos of the new V shaped display port and a photo of my programming cable.

 

[Ridetoglide]

I just went for a nice test ride.... the power cuts in and out and is very jerky. There is a delay before the power cuts out. I am extremely annoyed over this because i know all the roughness can be programmed away. Biktrix is no help they replied to me that its the new Canbus interface and cannot be programmed and that Bafang tuned the motor for optimal performance. If this cannot be programmed bafang went from having an awesome product to having a mediocre product at best. I feel after speding $4000+ dollars this is unacceptable.

 

[mxer]

Think I'll leave my next purchase for now then! My Ultra was an absolute pig before I smoothed things out thanks to members here!.. if this is no longer available they can keep it!!.

Do you not have a Grace period? If it's not fit for purpose (overun is dangerous) then get your money back!!..

For 4k it's got to be RIGHT!..

 

[Ridetoglide]

yeah im on the fence whether i should return it or not, especially because biktrix's response was like, "its no longer programable, thats just the way it is". (paraphrased). Biktrix sold me the bike, they should have an interest in the way it performs... i am going to ride it more my right now my biggest dissatisfaction is because:

1) there is a noticeable delay before the power cuts out
2) the lower assist levels are too powerful so the power engages then cuts out frequently because it accelerates too quickly
3) I cannot change the throttle to "by displays command", i dont want the throttle to be able to command full power in a lower assist level.

 

[TForan]

Think I'll leave my next purchase for now then! My Ultra was an absolute pig before I smoothed things out thanks to members here!.. if this is no longer available they can keep it!!.

Do you not have a Grace period? If it's not fit for purpose (overun is dangerous) then get your money back!!..

For 4k it's got to be RIGHT!..

A Biktrix ?

 

[SQUIDwarrior]

Oh man, I was literally about to order a Beast and ran across this thread. Now I’m not sure, especially for $4K. @Ridetoglide when you ordered yours did you choose the “20mph/500W” option or the “No Limit” option for motor power?

 

[Mike_V]

Surprised?
For YOU the Juggernaut Ultra Beast :
Too powerful and too quick and disobedient for too long too much of the time.
I dunno, maybe you can ride faster
Beast Master

1) there is a noticeable delay before the power cuts out
2) the lower assist levels are too powerful so the power engages then cuts out frequently because it accelerates too quickly
3) I cannot change the throttle to "by displays command", i dont want the throttle to be able to command full power in a lower assist level.

 

[TForan]

I really don't understand all the complaints, other than Roshan's early tuning really worked or I'm just not that sensitive as some. Maybe, the fact that I ride in the top fours gears all the time. Is it some noticeable in the lower gears ?

 

[Ridetoglide]

Oh man, I was literally about to order a Beast and ran across this thread. Now I’m not sure, especially for $4K. @Ridetoglide when you ordered yours did you choose the “20mph/500W” option or the “No Limit” option for motor power?

I went with No Limit... Its a beautiful bike, big beefy tires.... I plan on taking it on the beach.... The problem with returning it is i probably will not be able to find an Ultra motor bike with the Uart system.

There are people working on cracking the Scambus (Canbus).... interesting read.....

Bafang M500/M600 Tuning & The BESST Tool

So i got a race face 30 chain ring and still at the stupid customs ztto 32 chainring and 52 casette.As soon as i have everything i will do again a test ride.Usually with the Bosch Fatbike-Mondraker panzer with a 400wh battery i am able to get 1000hm.With the kenevo 2018 even 1500 but on 500w...

www.emtbforums.com

 

[Ridetoglide]

I really don't understand all the complaints, other than Roshan's early tuning really worked or I'm just not that sensitive as some. Maybe, the fact that I ride in the top fours gears all the time. Is it some noticeable in the lower gears ?

With the Canbus I not sure if Roshan can tune it or not. I've read that Roshans tuning worked very well.

 

[Ridetoglide]

The way it seems going forward we will need the BESST firmware flasher to tune the bike via Canbus. I've read that Bafang can authorize certain changes to be made for ender users but only basic parameters. Guys are working on "cracking the code" for lack of a better term this way we can tune/program as desired. The way i see it its my bike i should be able to change the settings as desired, even at the risk of breaking it. This s$%t pisses me off.

 

[Mike_V]

EBR Saga:
I Must Tame the Ultra Beast
Chapter One: Triggered


Roshan's Reply?
Why because this a Juggernaut Ultra Beast and not a tricycle?

 

[roshan]

yeah im on the fence whether i should return it or not, especially because biktrix's response was like, "its no longer programable, thats just the way it is". (paraphrased). Biktrix sold me the bike, they should have an interest in the way it performs... i am going to ride it more my right now my biggest dissatisfaction is because:

1) there is a noticeable delay before the power cuts out
2) the lower assist levels are too powerful so the power engages then cuts out frequently because it accelerates too quickly
3) I cannot change the throttle to "by displays command", i dont want the throttle to be able to command full power in a lower assist level.

1. Can you explain 1 a bit more? Cut out after stopping pedaling or when gear sensor engages or when brakes are applied?
2. How would would like 2 to behave?
3. The most requested feature we had from customers is to have full throttle on all levels so that the throttle always gives the rider a boost, even when pedal assist is on. You don't want this? Keep in mind that without this, if you reach top speed/current limit on each level with PAS, then the throttle would appear dead (ie. no additional power when you hit the throttle)

 

[TForan]

1. Can you explain 1 a bit more? Cut out after stopping pedaling or when gear sensor engages or when brakes are applied?
2. How would would like 2 to behave?
3. The most requested feature we had from customers is to have full throttle on all levels so that the throttle always gives the rider a boost, even when pedal assist is on. You don't want this? Keep in mind that without this, if you reach top speed/current limit on each level with PAS, then the throttle would appear dead (ie. no additional power when you hit the throttle)

Roshan, Is the programming "different " on the early bikes ?

 

[AHicks]

Roshan, my guess is he's not talking about the throttle. More likely the level of PAS assist at lower speeds being a bit much, maybe leading to ghost pedaling. That's a pretty common complaint, even going back to the UART based Ultra

 

[Lou B.]

1. Can you explain 1 a bit more? Cut out after stopping pedaling or when gear sensor engages or when brakes are applied?
2. How would would like 2 to behave?
3. The most requested feature we had from customers is to have full throttle on all levels so that the throttle always gives the rider a boost, even when pedal assist is on. You don't want this? Keep in mind that without this, if you reach top speed/current limit on each level with PAS, then the throttle would appear dead (ie. no additional power when you hit the throttle)

Hi Roshan, I am curious to understand your #3 answer, that the most requested feature from that customers that you have seen and or assisted with (to have full throttle on all levels so that the throttle always gives the rider a boost)? is this a standard config the ultra beast has when its shipped to a new customer or is it something that needs to be requested from Biktrix? Reason for my ask is, I have received an order update #7593 the process can take from 2 days to 2 weeks based on complexity? if its not configured like #3, can I make the request NOW to be changed before you ship it to me? and what is the process to make that change to avoid going back & forth? Please advise and thank you in advance!! LB

 

[TForan]

Roshan, my guess is he's not talking about the throttle. More likely the level of PAS assist at lower speeds being a bit much, maybe leading to ghost pedaling. That's a pretty common complaint, even going back to the UART based Ultra

It's why I went to a 52 tooth chainring. I kept trying to shift to a gear that wasn't there. I might go down to a 50 next time.

 

[Ridetoglide]

1. Can you explain 1 a bit more? Cut out after stopping pedaling or when gear sensor engages or when brakes are applied?
2. How would would like 2 to behave?
3. The most requested feature we had from customers is to have full throttle on all levels so that the throttle always gives the rider a boost, even when pedal assist is on. You don't want this? Keep in mind that without this, if you reach top speed/current limit on each level with PAS, then the throttle would appear dead (ie. no additional power when you hit the throttle)

Hello Roshan... thank you for responding. I have decided to keep the bike, but I am not happy that the Ultra motor can no longer be programmed, when I purchased the bike I was under the assumption that I was going to be able to do so like I did with the stunner X I purchased 5 months ago. I understand this is not biktrix fault, it is because Bafang switched to the Canbus protocol and the Ultra motor can no longer be programmed. After going for a few rides my biggest complaints with the stock programming is:

1. The motor does not cutout right away when I hit the brakes or stop peddling or when I shift, there is about a 1/4 to 1/2 second delay. This often causes a hard upshift. With the stunner X bbs02, after I programmed the Time of Stop(x10ms) value to 0 it fixed this issue right away.

2. Assist 1 has too much power. At slow speeds the motor senses my torque, activates, accelerates and cuts out soon after, the cycle repeats itself at slow speed when the motor is under a light load. This is a common complaint regarding the bafang stock programming.

3. I also noticed that in a higher assist like 3 or 4 while pedaling at a high cadence like above 90 rpm under a moderate load the power delivery tends to be a little jerky.

4. I understand many customers like having full throttle available but I actually like having the max throttle tied to the current assist level, just a personal preference.

With that being said aside from these 4 things I am really enjoying the bike. The Beast is a beast and has globs of power.

I have one question... I am very curious.... Previously it has been said that Roshan and Biktrix had very good torque settings for the Bafang Ultra M620 motor (with the previous UART protocol).

Did biktrix adjust the torque settings ( Biktrix's Sause) after receiving the motor from bafang?

As a dealer Is Biktrix still able to program the torque settings in the new Canbus protocol ( as you were in the UART protocol)? or the are current torque settings ( Canbus Protocol ) set at the bafang factory?

Again, thank you for responding, it is impressive when the CEO of a company takes time to read customer complaints.

 

[Mike_V]

How 'bout a hill climb, fire road, forest trail, desert, beach anywhere but;
Oh please, challenge the Juggernaut Ultra Beast instead of milquetoast.

 

[roshan]

Oh man, I was literally about to order a Beast and ran across this thread. Now I’m not sure, especially for $4K. @Ridetoglide when you ordered yours did you choose the “20mph/500W” option or the “No Limit” option for motor power?

Taming down the beast is

Hello Roshan... thank you for responding. I have decided to keep the bike, but I am not happy that the Ultra motor can no longer be programmed, when I purchased the bike I was under the assumption that I was going to be able to do so like I did with the stunner X I purchased 5 months ago. I understand this is not biktrix fault, it is because Bafang switched to the Canbus protocol and the Ultra motor can no longer be programmed. After going for a few rides my biggest complaints with the stock programming is:

1. The motor does not cutout right away when I hit the brakes or stop peddling or when I shift, there is about a 1/4 to 1/2 second delay. This often causes a hard upshift. With the stunner X bbs02, after I programmed the Time of Stop(x10ms) value to 0 it fixed this issue right away.

This is interesting - I will need to check with Bafang and get back to you.

2. Assist 1 has too much power. At slow speeds the motor senses my torque, activates, accelerates and cuts out soon after, the cycle repeats itself at slow speed when the motor is under a light load. This is a common complaint regarding the bafang stock programming.

We should be able to adjust this. Note that unlike UART, CANBUS doesnt currently have a UI to make these changes. So we (OEM) need to make requests to Bafang on specific changes and they would then send us a bin file (firmware update) to load to the motor.

3. I also noticed that in a higher assist like 3 or 4 while pedaling at a high cadence like above 90 rpm under a moderate load the power delivery tends to be a little jerky.

4. I understand many customers like having full throttle available but I actually like having the max throttle tied to the current assist level, just a personal preference.

Would need to check on this as well.

With that being said aside from these 4 things I am really enjoying the bike. The Beast is a beast and has globs of power.

That's good!

I have one question... I am very curious.... Previously it has been said that Roshan and Biktrix had very good torque settings for the Bafang Ultra M620 motor (with the previous UART protocol).

Yeah, unlike UART, CANBUS doesnt currently have a UI to make these changes. So we (OEM) need to make requests to Bafang on specific changes and they would then send us a bin file (firmware update) to load to the motor.

Did biktrix adjust the torque settings ( Biktrix's Sause) after receiving the motor from bafang?

We made our recommendations and Bafang tells us they made those changes. Unfortunately, since we can't read the settings on CANBUS, we can't verify those changes. We can only ride and see if it rides well or not.

As a dealer Is Biktrix still able to program the torque settings in the new Canbus protocol ( as you were in the UART protocol)? or the are current torque settings ( Canbus Protocol ) set at the bafang factory?

Answered above

Again, thank you for responding, it is impressive when the CEO of a company takes time to read customer complaints.

I do what I can