New Frey Owners

[Mark Tunis]

I got roughly 13 miles last night running high speed at full throttle draining the battery to 20%, but there was a big hill on the way home which I pedaled a bit to offset. It never complained to go fater than 28mph, even well below 50% remaining. I am guessing the range would have been closer to 15-20 miles after a few charges with balanced cells, no hills, high speed, throttle only. I'm not sure I will do too many more of these torture tests as it may overheat the cells which might not be good for long term battery health and not really how I ride. I plan to do more of a normal ride today. I would agree if you want a bike to go fast on flats on throttle alone this is not necessarily the right bike. A rear hub might be more efficient and significantly cheaper.

Yes just so, but I’m driveway to driveway, stop light to stop light, start and stop where I live, no hills just urban adventure, to the beach and back,
I have a hub drive, rad rover, perfect if it had more power, I’m a old motorcycle guy ,old habits
Thank you
All the best
Mark

 

[Paul Dugrenier]

Greetings from Portland

Nice shots of the bike. Is that color the stock red that appears on Frey’s website or did you choose it from the YS color catalog? The red on your bike looks a little deeper and richer but it might just be the lighting. In any case, it’s a beautiful bike and a beautiful property you have. I hope you have a good heavy lock as it’s going to attract attention. I hope you get plenty of opportunities to ride it.

 

[Dave Thefonziscool]

Nice shots of the bike. Is that color the stock red that appears on Frey’s website or did you choose it from the YS color catalog? The red on your bike looks a little deeper and richer but it might just be the lighting. In any case, it’s a beautiful bike and a beautiful property you have. I hope you have a good heavy lock as it’s going to attract attention. I hope you get plenty of opportunities to ride it.

Hi. I agree that the color seemed a touch different than the stock photos. Its a super candy apple red metallic. I did order simply the red, not custom or from the color catalog. Its pretty flashy for sure. I do like it. Yes for security i have an Abus Granite x plus 540 and also a 10mm super hardened chain with a stanley shrouded padlock. This stuff can only he breached by grinding (well, it's rare that a bike thief has mega expert level lock picking skills). Thanks on the property comment, I bought the place in a sketchy neighborhood for 54K. Of course that was 1993 lol.

 

[Paul Dugrenier]

Hi. I agree that the color seemed a touch different than the stock photos. Its a super candy apple red metallic. I did order simply the red, not custom or from the color catalog. Its pretty flashy for sure. I do like it. Yes for security i have an Abus Granite x plus 540 and also a 10mm super hardened chain with a stanley shrouded padlock. This stuff can only he breached by grinding (well, it's rare that a bike thief has mega expert level lock picking skills). Thanks on the property comment, I bought the place in a sketchy neighborhood for 54K. Of course that was 1993 lol.

Thanks for mentioning the locks you have. I have a big old kryptonite lock from the 70’s for one bike but I need another for the second one plus a heavy chain. That Abus lock is expensive but well worth the investment considering the value of the bike. I’m also considering some sort of tracker system. I’ve noticed some ebike manufacturers have an integrated anti-theft system and it would be nice to see Frey offer one as an option.
Have you taken your bike off-road yet? It would be interesting to know your thoughts on how it handles more challenging terrain.

 

[TomD]

I think the CC would work better as a bikepacking or touring bike. I found sharp turns to be a challenge.

 

[Explorer-1]

I think the CC would work better as a bikepacking or touring bike. I found sharp turns to be a challenge.

Range is not enough for touring I don't think.

 

[byunbee]

Range is not enough for touring I don't think.

As long as you use level 1-2 PAS and not throttle, I would think that CC would give you 40-50 miles easily. If you carry extra battery, then you have almost 100 mile range.

 

[TomD]

Range is not enough for touring I don't think.

True, although it theoretically shouldn't be worse than other bikes with the Ultra motor of similar weight and you can carry spares on the rack, albeit unsprung. I think Watt Wagons set a world record for range with an Ultra based bike that isn't particularly aerodynamic.

 

[JCofMN]

Yes just so, but I’m driveway to driveway, stop light to stop light, start and stop where I live, no hills just urban adventure, to the beach and back,
I have a hub drive, rad rover, perfect if it had more power, I’m a old motorcycle guy ,old habits
Thank you
All the best
Mark

Depending on how much more power you need for your Rover, Bolton sells an controller kit upgrade that apparently significantly alters the ride feel of the bike. There's a guy on Youtube named CitizenCycle who's done an independent review of the controller kit covering its install, performance testing compared to stock, and sort of a range test. See:

for one of his videos. Now I say "sort of a range test" in that it's an anecdotal account of one his longer but normal riding style rides and not a rigorous throttle only controlled variable ride it till it drops test. Interestly though he reports no significant range loss despite the noticeable power performance increase. The only way for this to happen is for the new controller to be more efficient than the stock Bafang controller. By more efficient I mean more of the electrical energy is converted to mechanical driving force energy in the motor by more precise control of the magnetic fields in the motor three phase stator windings so that the magnetic vector is alway as close as possible to 90 degrees to the rotor's radius (i.e., the max torque angle). If you look this stuff up, the hierarchy of controller topologies from least to highest efficiency is trapezoidal, sinusoidal, and FOC (field oriented controller). For 200 bucks, I suspect the Bolton kit is a a step up from trapezoid to sinusoidal. The GRIN phaserunner I think also a sinusoidal upgrade path.

The upcoming Exess (Sp?) controller for the Ultra Bafang I would hope is a full on FOC to take full advantage of the motor's magnetics. From my limited experience with the Frey CC with its stock controller, warts and all, unless I gain another 100 lbs, I don't really need any more power.

 

[Mark Tunis]

I think the CC would work better as a bikepacking or touring bike. I found sharp turns to be a challenge.

Got 17 miles from 54.6 volts to cut off at 43.6 volts,
Battery’s have gotten better with conditioning
It is what is is, I guess larger or higher voltage battery’s would be required for this motor To increase speed / distance

 

[Mark Tunis]

Got 17 miles from 54.6 volts to cut off at 43.6 volts,
Battery’s have gotten better with conditioning
It is what is is, I guess larger or higher voltage battery’s would be required for this motor To increase speed / distance

Some have suggested that the battery cells are not original Samsung but rebranded generic

 

[seabeast]

Some have suggested that the battery cells are not original Samsung but rebranded generic

Do have a source or evidence for this suggestion? I mean, "some have suggested" is about the weakest statement possible. It this is true, it would be a serious issue, so it seems kind of reckless to suggest this without providing any more info.

ebike range estimates seem sorta like the wild west right now, with few rules. Minimally, I think most ebikes assume you'll be pedaling at the same time. And for hub-drive bikes, I suspect your gear choice matters, and with all bikes, velocity makes a HUGE difference (power goes up with the cube of velocity). So if you cruise your CC at the same speed you ride your RadRover, you'd probably get better range from a charge.

Here's a fun bike power calculator: https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html
Using the default parameters, cruising at 15mph takes 88.18 watts, while cruising at 25mph takes 326.16 watts.

So if you have a 1000Watt-hour battery, at 15mph you can cruise for 11.34 hours and cover 170 miles.
But at 25mph you can only cruise for 3.1 hours and cover 76.6 miles.

Obviously those specific numbers won't match your specific bike, but the point is that cruising at 25 instead of 15 reduces your range by more than half.

 

[TomD]

I pedal mostly in Eco mode PAS 1 on my CC and have no problem getting up to 25 mph on flats. I'm just learning to appreciate the bike for what it is. I think it's best to have realistic expectations, otherwise you'll just set yourself up for disappointment. Converting those numbers to the 840wh battery, I'd take 76.6 x .84 = 64 miles at 25 mph, not gonna happen on the CC though.

 

[brake034]

Hello, I am not a "new" Frey owner, I have my HT (the first production 29er) for some time now.
I am Marcel, live in Thailand and help Frey as a brand ambassador with International Marketing.

Good to see this Frey forum becoming a lively platform for Frey owners!

Here's my HT in Royal Dutch Orange, in the rice fields of the Golden Triangle, Chiang Rai province:

 

[Paul Dugrenier]

Hello, I am not a "new" Frey owner, I have my HT (the first production 29er) for some time now.
I am Marcel, live in Thailand and help Frey as a brand ambassador with International Marketing.

Good to see this Frey forum becoming a lively platform for Frey owners!

Here's my HT in Royal Dutch Orange, in the rice fields of the Golden Triangle, Chiang Rai province:View attachment 52204

Love the color Marcel and it looks like a great place to ride your bike.

 

[byunbee]

Hello, I am not a "new" Frey owner, I have my HT (the first production 29er) for some time now.
I am Marcel, live in Thailand and help Frey as a brand ambassador with International Marketing.

Good to see this Frey forum becoming a lively platform for Frey owners!

Here's my HT in Royal Dutch Orange, in the rice fields of the Golden Triangle, Chiang Rai province:View attachment 52204

Looks brand new. You must baby that thing.

 

[brake034]

Looks brand new. You must baby that thing.

Actually it was on the first ride out

 

[byunbee]

Actually it was on the first ride out

Make more sense...

 

[brake034]

We also have an M600 in Thailand and soon we hope to get a CC.
This M600 is the EU version limited to 25km/h.

 

[byunbee]

We also have an M600 in Thailand and soon we hope to get a CC.
This M600 is the EU version limited to 25km/h.
View attachment 52212

M600 is one of the better looking bikes Frey makes. They really need to retire the AM1000 and HT1000 frame design and come up with a fully integrated battery design like the EX and M600.