New eBike Brand. Help me with Reviews!
- Thread starter krdugger
- Start date
krdugger
Member
Thanks Alan. I hope to get to the point very soon where it doesn't feel like taking a chance. >_<
Stromer2work
Active Member
ya i think i'd order one out of curiosity, but i've already got all I need (and then some haha) according to my family. All I can think is a winter beater (slush, salt, snow), but I already have a bike picked out for that role too. I'm also concerned about unique parts (not bike bits, but cables, connectors, etc) that might be hard to find in the long future, after years of hard riding.
Ravi Kempaiah
Well-Known Member
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- Canada
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- Halifax
The biggest question will be the life of the brand itself. Is it going to be around for 5 years from now?
This is a super competitive market. The lower segment (< upto 40%) of the market is taken up by RadPower, Juiced, Surface604, M2S etc.
Then there are bigger sharks like Specialized, Trek, Haibike, Raleigh who are eyeing for the lions share.
There are at least 100 crowd funded bike brands like Sondors, Spark, Flash, Mate, Super73 etc.
The questions that need answers are:
What's the service going to be like?
Are the parts too generic that, if needed, can I order it off Alibaba?
What is the financial state of the company?
ebikemom
Well-Known Member
In making purchases for my family, this was my biggest question, along with quality--longevity and after-care. Loved that my bike came with a 2-year warranty, area dealer support, and the confidence that the company will still be there years later, and standing by their products.
That said, there are folks to whom the sales price is the most important factor, who aren't thinking that far ahead. Some of those are engineers and hobbyists who have confidence that they will be able to maintain or rebuild the electrical system on their own bikes.
For a new bike company: How to convince buyers that the brand will be there for them, supporting their product, providing warranty service, etc.? That's the challenge, I think, to become a bike company with long-term prospects. I'm not a business person, so no idea how to accomplish that, but perhaps there is something instructive in the processes and experiences of other successful brands.
Calicoskies
Active Member
One of the reasons I went with ElectricBikeCompany for my first complete bike, warranty. They own part of the battery company so likely one way they keep the costs down.
Is there a warranty on the bikes?
We have a 30-day 100% money-back guarantee from the day that you receive your bike if you’re not satisfied with it. We will cover all shipping costs for returns as well as parts you may need. There is a 10 year warranty on the frame and motor and a 5 year warranty on the battery. We offer a lifetime replacement cost warranty on the battery cells – so for the life of the battery we will replace the internal cells at our cost.
Is there a warranty on the bikes?
We have a 30-day 100% money-back guarantee from the day that you receive your bike if you’re not satisfied with it. We will cover all shipping costs for returns as well as parts you may need. There is a 10 year warranty on the frame and motor and a 5 year warranty on the battery. We offer a lifetime replacement cost warranty on the battery cells – so for the life of the battery we will replace the internal cells at our cost.
Calicoskies
Active Member
I understand, maybe false security but so far so good.
I am not sure of relationship but during one of Court's video with Sean or maybe a email with the owner Sean when i was doing my research it was explained as a partnership and took it as more than just a supplier, may be wrong.
Electric Bike Company is partners with Turnlife, owning the battery designs, technology, manufacturing and distribution facility.
I am not sure of relationship but during one of Court's video with Sean or maybe a email with the owner Sean when i was doing my research it was explained as a partnership and took it as more than just a supplier, may be wrong.
Electric Bike Company is partners with Turnlife, owning the battery designs, technology, manufacturing and distribution facility.
harryS
Well-Known Member
The webite says ..."Throttle limited to 20mph, PAS up to 25mph" and just below that .."30 miles on throttle up to 60 miles Pedal Assist (PAS) "
A Class 2 ebike has throttle/PAS, with motor always shutting off at 20 mph. Class 3 is pedal assist only.
You might want to clarify whether it is throttle/PAS or PAS only (Class3)
Calicoskies
Active Member
They use the LCD3 display with full access to user, lots of items can be adjusted. I have last years model so something may of change but I do not think so.
Website shows this in FAQ:
Our electric bikes can actually be set up easily in the settings for three different classes:
Class One: Pedal Assist feature top speed is 20mph.
Class Two: Pedal Assist & Throttle top speeds are 20mph.
Class Three: Throttle top speed is 20mph and Pedal Assist up to 28mph.
Website shows this in FAQ:
Our electric bikes can actually be set up easily in the settings for three different classes:
Class One: Pedal Assist feature top speed is 20mph.
Class Two: Pedal Assist & Throttle top speeds are 20mph.
Class Three: Throttle top speed is 20mph and Pedal Assist up to 28mph.
krdugger
Member
Thanks! There aren't that many unique parts actually. We of course stock all the replacement parts and plan on being around long term, but if you didn't believe that, you could get anything replaced and working fine with parts available online from many stores. You wouldn't be sitting there with a half-working bike 5 years down the road if the company died. The next model we are designing will be a little more custom. This is very generic
krdugger
Member
Very good points. It is hard to answer these questions in the short term. The parts on this bike are very generic fortunately, and you could buy all of the parts in the US, not just Alibaba. We have the same battery attachment as a few other retailers. The next model I've been designing will be a little more custom. Really hope to prove the value of the company with the service in the next few years. Also, the financial state is good
Ravi Kempaiah
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Canada
- City
- Halifax
Very good points. It is hard to answer these questions in the short term. The parts on this bike are very generic fortunately, and you could buy all of the parts in the US, not just Alibaba. We have the same battery attachment as a few other retailers. The next model I've been designing will be a little more custom. Really hope to prove the value of the company with the service in the next few years. Also, the financial state is good
The biggest red flag for me is when there is no physical location and when they don't publish their actual names and photos.
It takes 2 minutes to close the website and say bye to all. What does one have to lose?
If you publish your name, physical location then reputation is at stake, people can track you down.
Why dealers are more trusted than online sellers because they have a physical shop where you can go....
It's like in the world of dating.. what is one thing that women look for in a man?
"Trustworthiness"....
Similarly, those people who are looking for a DIY thing or lowest possible price for a bike, they would not mind but someone who is serious about biking wants to see and know who is the person running all this and what happens few years down the line.
scootscoot
Member
This sounds like a solid entry level offering in the ebike market. Realistically, I feel like 500 watt hours should be sufficient or more than sufficient for most rides. However, I would still like the extra security of a 650 watt hour capacity battery or higher. This would have me covered when I want to go out for a 30 mile ride, and don't want to bother charging for an hour or longer if I was too lazy to recharge the night before, as long as the battery had say a 70% charge or so. A 70% charge on a 500 watt hour would give me a lot less range for the types of rides I like to go on.
I figure 300 watt hours would have me covered for a 15-20 mile ride at 20+ mph. A 500 watt hour would get me about 25-35 miles fully charged but that wouldn't take into account hills, wind, or extra cargo. But 650 watt hours would give me a bit of extra insurance. Useful also as the battery ages out over a 3-5 year span.
After having ridden with hydraulic brakes, I'd also be hard pressed to give them up to save a bit of money.
The main problem however is with bikes that are a single size. A 32" standover is unrealistic for most people. I have a 30" inseam. With standard shoes, the minimum standover I need is 30.5." 32" is just too high. This is likely due the wheel size you spec: 700c or 29".
I believe biktrix utilizes single sizing for most of their models. However, iirc, their standover is under 30."
I think you could correct all of these problems/issues over the next 6-12 months as you introduce new lines and sizes.
One other issue: a 4 month lead time between ordering and receipt of the bike is just too long. I appreciate the sincerity and it looks like you are trying to underpromise and overdeliver, but still, that is quite a long lead.
If you can address these issues AND as others have pointed out, offer superior customer service, you will be able to gain a foothold in the market.
Look at amazon: superior customer service allowed them to become largest etailer on the planet.
As far as current model offerings from other brands, the juiced ripcurrent (not s) may be closest to offering the feature set I am looking for at the price I am willing to pay. My main concern there is their extremely spotty track record with customer service. There is so much uncertainty about whether and when or if or how they will respond, I'm still unwilling to buy.
I am willing to spend far more for a brand name like giant. I'll look up the model later, but they have a plus sized tire bike that can double as a road and offroad model. Their pricing is competitive at $3K or so, but obviously it's far higher than the direct to consumer models.
However, I feel far more confident going with the largest player in the game that can afford to actually fix any potential problems rather than a small direct to consumer brand which has only been around for a few months or a few years or in this case, just a few hours!
What's frustrating about the ebike market is that so few bike guys design ebikes. That means almost no time is spent on actually designing frame geometry and tubing. I'm picky about frame geometry and sizing because it makes such a huge difference in comfort over the long term. But most offbrand/direct to consumer brands put zero effort into frame geometry and sizes.
IMO, Giant Bicycles is probably the best compromise between actual bicycle engineering and design and value. The question is, am I willing to drop $3K for customer service and peace of mind or should I roll the dice with Juiced or an even newer brand like 1up.
Good luck I hope you got some useful advice from this post.
I figure 300 watt hours would have me covered for a 15-20 mile ride at 20+ mph. A 500 watt hour would get me about 25-35 miles fully charged but that wouldn't take into account hills, wind, or extra cargo. But 650 watt hours would give me a bit of extra insurance. Useful also as the battery ages out over a 3-5 year span.
After having ridden with hydraulic brakes, I'd also be hard pressed to give them up to save a bit of money.
The main problem however is with bikes that are a single size. A 32" standover is unrealistic for most people. I have a 30" inseam. With standard shoes, the minimum standover I need is 30.5." 32" is just too high. This is likely due the wheel size you spec: 700c or 29".
I believe biktrix utilizes single sizing for most of their models. However, iirc, their standover is under 30."
I think you could correct all of these problems/issues over the next 6-12 months as you introduce new lines and sizes.
One other issue: a 4 month lead time between ordering and receipt of the bike is just too long. I appreciate the sincerity and it looks like you are trying to underpromise and overdeliver, but still, that is quite a long lead.
If you can address these issues AND as others have pointed out, offer superior customer service, you will be able to gain a foothold in the market.
Look at amazon: superior customer service allowed them to become largest etailer on the planet.
As far as current model offerings from other brands, the juiced ripcurrent (not s) may be closest to offering the feature set I am looking for at the price I am willing to pay. My main concern there is their extremely spotty track record with customer service. There is so much uncertainty about whether and when or if or how they will respond, I'm still unwilling to buy.
I am willing to spend far more for a brand name like giant. I'll look up the model later, but they have a plus sized tire bike that can double as a road and offroad model. Their pricing is competitive at $3K or so, but obviously it's far higher than the direct to consumer models.
However, I feel far more confident going with the largest player in the game that can afford to actually fix any potential problems rather than a small direct to consumer brand which has only been around for a few months or a few years or in this case, just a few hours!
What's frustrating about the ebike market is that so few bike guys design ebikes. That means almost no time is spent on actually designing frame geometry and tubing. I'm picky about frame geometry and sizing because it makes such a huge difference in comfort over the long term. But most offbrand/direct to consumer brands put zero effort into frame geometry and sizes.
IMO, Giant Bicycles is probably the best compromise between actual bicycle engineering and design and value. The question is, am I willing to drop $3K for customer service and peace of mind or should I roll the dice with Juiced or an even newer brand like 1up.
Good luck I hope you got some useful advice from this post.
krdugger
Member
Agreed. And very good point. I have published an about photo of our small team. Re location; we are mostly able to offer this pricing because we do not have a physical location, other than a not for retail warehouse and my home address.. Do you have any suggestions for how and where I should display my name? Maybe an about the owner section of the about us page? I do appreciate your suggestions very very much
Ravi Kempaiah
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Canada
- City
- Halifax
Agreed. And very good point. I have published an about photo of our small team. Re location; we are mostly able to offer this pricing because we do not have a physical location, other than a not for retail warehouse and my home address.. Do you have any suggestions for how and where I should display my name? Maybe an about the owner section of the about us page? I do appreciate your suggestions very very much
I think you can start by writing your full name here.
On your website, may be a expand on how you got into this business and what you did before. Link your LinkedIn profile.
Most people who are tech savvy can smell if the business is after a quick buck or really interested in helping customers in the long haul.
If you/your team comes across as someone who walks the talk, even if you are little abrasive, people will work with you and buy from you.
If you provide top notch service, business will thrive.
Radpower started as a small crowd funded company, they stood behind their very average product and now they are a 50 million $$ company.
I am just providing honest feedback and hoping that you will succeed. I wish my best for you and your team.
krdugger
Member
ScootScoot - There are so many useful things you said there and so much to unpack - Firstly, you brought already one error of mine to my attention. - The sizing. I've had 5'4" riders use these bikes with no issues. I had to measure my bike because 32" didn't seem right. It was incorrect. I did all the measurements, I am not sure why it had 32"! I am correcting that online. Thank you! See attached image. You would fit the bike perfectly Honestly, it fits everyone who's tested between 5'4"-6'4" without any complaint (I'm 6'2").
Regarding range. Are you riding with throttle only? I'm routinely getting 40+ miles on a full charge riding at around 23 mph average cruising speed (except stops) using high pedal assist, mostly motor. I think you are underestimating the range on this bike. I usually charge around 40 miles with 1/3 battery left. I weigh 190lbs.
I am most curious about this- "One other issue: a 4 month lead time between ordering and receipt of the bike is just too long "
Where did you read that? I have 160 bikes left which ship UPS ground same day, and have 200 more ready next month. Anyway, location dependent you may receive your bike within 3 days (west coast)
Regarding customer service of the big guys. I cannot really prove anything on here, but I don't plan on operating without fixing any and every mechanical issue if one should occur. Sometimes small startups care more about personalized service than trek or giant.
Finally, to your point about frame design. This first model is a very generic and popular frame. I love it. We are in production of 200 more bikes which I have designed inside and out for the past couple years. drawings and manufacturer partnerships, and prototype testing etc etc. It is a city commuter bike though. More of a Dutch style bike. So it will be a little more specific, but it is something I really wanted to create. It will be light, sleek, fast, and comfortable. It is rare to have unique designs mostly because of the upfront costs, legal risks, and timeline. But for both bikes and boards, I am spending over $30k in new design molds for 6+ unique product molds. So I am definitely trying to design something uniquely better.
Appreciate your response,
Kevin
Honestly, it fits everyone who's tested between 5'4"-6'4" without any complaint (I'm 6'2").Regarding range. Are you riding with throttle only? I'm routinely getting 40+ miles on a full charge riding at around 23 mph average cruising speed (except stops) using high pedal assist, mostly motor. I think you are underestimating the range on this bike. I usually charge around 40 miles with 1/3 battery left. I weigh 190lbs.
I am most curious about this- "One other issue: a 4 month lead time between ordering and receipt of the bike is just too long "
Where did you read that? I have 160 bikes left which ship UPS ground same day, and have 200 more ready next month. Anyway, location dependent you may receive your bike within 3 days (west coast)
Regarding customer service of the big guys. I cannot really prove anything on here, but I don't plan on operating without fixing any and every mechanical issue if one should occur. Sometimes small startups care more about personalized service than trek or giant.
Finally, to your point about frame design. This first model is a very generic and popular frame. I love it. We are in production of 200 more bikes which I have designed inside and out for the past couple years. drawings and manufacturer partnerships, and prototype testing etc etc. It is a city commuter bike though. More of a Dutch style bike. So it will be a little more specific, but it is something I really wanted to create. It will be light, sleek, fast, and comfortable. It is rare to have unique designs mostly because of the upfront costs, legal risks, and timeline. But for both bikes and boards, I am spending over $30k in new design molds for 6+ unique product molds. So I am definitely trying to design something uniquely better.
Appreciate your response,
Kevin
Attachments
krdugger
Member
Kevin Dugger. m 530 400 1770
bearingproperties.com
I run 3 businesses including a real estate brokerage. I always stand behind my work. A quick buck is meaningless to me.
I don't have a linkedin as I haven't looked for a job or worked for a company since Heavenly ski resort in 2010.
I'll try including something personal on the site with information about the owner, etc.
Thank you again. You're advice will help me in the future.
Last edited:
scootscoot
Member
ScootScoot - There are so many useful things you said there and so much to unpack - Firstly, you brought already one error of mine to my attention. - The sizing. I've had 5'4" riders use these bikes with no issues. I had to measure my bike because 32" didn't seem right. It was incorrect. I did all the measurements, I am not sure why it had 32"! I am correcting that online. Thank you! See attached image. You would fit the bike perfectly
Regarding range. Are you riding with throttle only? I'm routinely getting 40+ miles on a full charge riding at around 23 mph average cruising speed (except stops) using high pedal assist, mostly motor. I think you are underestimating the range on this bike. I usually charge around 40 miles with 1/3 battery left. I weigh 190lbs.
I am most curious about this- "One other issue: a 4 month lead time between ordering and receipt of the bike is just too long "
Where did you read that? I have 160 bikes left which ship UPS ground same day, and have 200 more ready next month. Anyway, location dependent you may receive your bike within 3 days (west coast)
Regarding customer service of the big guys. I cannot really prove anything on here, but I don't plan on operating without fixing any and every mechanical issue if one should occur. Sometimes small startups care more about personalized service than trek or giant.
Finally, to your point about frame design. This first model is a very generic and popular frame. I love it. We are in production of 200 more bikes which I have designed inside and out for the past couple years. drawings and manufacturer partnerships, and prototype testing etc etc. It is a city commuter bike though. More of a Dutch style bike. So it will be a little more specific, but it is something I really wanted to create. It will be light, sleek, fast, and comfortable. It is rare to have unique designs mostly because of the upfront costs, legal risks, and timeline. But for both bikes and boards, I am spending over $30k in new design molds for 6+ unique product molds. So I am definitely trying to design something uniquely better.
Appreciate your response,
Kevin
I am using a range estimate of 20 miles per 300 watt hours. This is based upon Faraday's "real world" test of range in hilly northern california. They were able to complete a 40 mile ride, very hilly, real world conditions including wind, traffic, etc. with a pair of 300 watt hour batteries, with some juice to spare.
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
"To recreate a “real life” use case, this ride was completed with a 2-year-old Porteur S daily commuter on a single charge of both the internal and auxiliary battery. In theory, that’s 612 Wh minus the loss of battery capacity from the age of Thomas’ internal battery. With his setup, our standard assist level delivered nearly 38 miles of range with 1,900 ft of climbing through the Oakland hills. In short, it works! On newer bikes and flatter terrain, it’s realistic we’d hit 45 or even 50+ miles on a single charge. Excited yet?"
You have four sections on ordering, and the last section on pre-ordering states there is a 4 month wait list. It wasn't clear if this was a reference to your current model/s or to future models. I assumed the wait applied to current models, apparently not?
ORDERING
Pre-orders
Pre-orders are an extremely valuable part of our business. While we understand it is frustrating to wait for a product you are excited about, we will make your order a priority, and we do promise to deliver within a 4-month time frame or your money back. Your early orders help us spend more on production to manufacture more units per month. We will reward every pre-order with an added gift at the time of delivery. Thank you for supporting our business.
Benefits of pre-ordering: Sales prices are always temporary and may be reduced our supply decreases and demand increases. By pre-ordering, you will be early in-line and thus oftentimes receive a better sales price than those do not pre-order.
I'm glad you corrected the standover height info but color me skeptical when anyone claims that "one size fits all" when it comes to bicycle sizing. Or sizing, period. Take specialized and trek for example. Both offer four frame sizes on their ebikes. Everything changes: crank length, seatpost length, stem length, standover, even wheel size. Here is specialized's geometry chart for their four sizes:
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/mens-turbo-vado-3-0/p/129143?color=216902-129143
Also, why 700c? This reduces standover clearance, especially for shorter riders. Also, are you using road 700c rims or offroad 29" rims? The latter are much wider and can accommodate fatter tires.
Anyway, I'm getting frustrated writing this up so I'll just stop. There are just far too many errors and gaps in information for me to correct.
rich c
Well-Known Member
I would like to remind everyone that there is a line between helping a new businessman with reviews of his product, and being critical of the business in general. A startup is incredibly difficult and if rushed there will be some mistakes. Let's be mindful of this please. I was critical of his choice of names, which I regret. But with my career background at a major construction machinery corporation that vehemently guarded it's brand, my intent was meant to be a warning and not a criticism. Thanks, Rich
krdugger
Member
Sorry I was out of the country on a poorly timed trip and wasn't able to login and reply. Firstly, Thank you Rich, your comment is much appreciated. Doing my best, much of the site is being improved week by week.
Scootscoot: The pre-order info on the support page is for products marked as pre-order. The quantity available of each unit is listed on the product page. Re. Range, I guess it just depends how you ride. Re. Sizing, I don't believe it's a one size fits all. I've had people very happy with the size from 5'5" to 6'4" though. It fits those sizes with a safe comfortable upright posture.
I'm sorry if it seems like there are a lot of errors. Trying to correct any and all, so thank you for pointing any out.
Kevin
Scootscoot: The pre-order info on the support page is for products marked as pre-order. The quantity available of each unit is listed on the product page. Re. Range, I guess it just depends how you ride. Re. Sizing, I don't believe it's a one size fits all. I've had people very happy with the size from 5'5" to 6'4" though. It fits those sizes with a safe comfortable upright posture.
I'm sorry if it seems like there are a lot of errors. Trying to correct any and all, so thank you for pointing any out.
Kevin
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