Need some feedback on TSZD2 with OSF vs standard OS

[Bob.A]

Howdy
Some background first. I've currently got a Greenspeed Magnum which is a tadpole trike with 20" wheels that I would like to electrify. It's not my first electric bike experience, before this I had a Himiway with a hub motor that was fun to ride but didnt provide that much exercise for me.

I've looked at the options for putting a motor on this bike and have pretty much settled on the Tongsheng mid drive with the torque sensor. It should be a fairly straightforward install and I doubt I would have too many problems with the mechanics and electrical hookups since I have fixed up all sorts of cars, bikes and machines throughout my life.

These things aren't cheap, but then neither was the bike. Looking online there are sellers in China and a couple in the US. The best price I can find for a standard 48v 750w version is 344 which is including tax and a 120 dollar shipping cost. This is an off the shelf motor with no mods or additions and the standard LCD display.

There are a couple of US sellers, Electrify Bike and ECO cycles that are also selling versions that have the OSF system installed and they are going for about
528 to over 580 depending on a couple of options. But the base price of the motors is 525 for either. I've heard wonderful things online about the current version of OSF and how it smooths out the performance of the motor, but I've also read reports from folks that have run it with the original OS with 5 PAS levels and are just fine with it.

The question that is nagging me is whether it is really worth about 200 bucks to get it from a US supplier and flashed to OSF? I'm not looking for anything that is going to turn it into a 3 wheel pocket rocket, I really do want to have to pedal it some for the exercise but would like to get it going a bit faster. I think that the US versions are also coming with a color display, so there's that, but I could live with either. I thought about trying to flash it myself, but as technical as I am or have been, it looks like it is still quite a trial and error process and there is also the cost of the hardware to link it to the PC. I would also have to get a battery system, figure out a mount for the battery and mounting for the display so there is more cost involved for that as well.

I'll attach some photos of the bike if folks aren't familiar with what they look like.


Thanks in advance, Bob

 

[PedalUma]

Bob,
Welcome! I am a known builder in Coastal N. California with several dozen reviews on Google Maps, all 5-Stars. The standard V5 firmware is very nice. The latest motor has wonderful improvements and can be delivered with in 3-days domestically for under $400. A custom made locking battery takes about 11-days and is also about $400 for 48V, 10.5Ah with premium cells and BMS. I recommend that you mount it using three Topeak Versa Mounts on the tube under the seat. Fiber grip paste will prevent it from slipping. You will need to drill an M8 hole for the secondary motor mount. Pro tip: Run the wires through frame.
All the best with your unique project.

 

[harryS]

You can get a TSDZ2B from PSWpower for $285, shipped out of their US warehouse. I bought one last Fall for $255, and it shipped in less than 10 days, I have read that the 500 and 750W models are exactly the same. However, if you want the color display, this vendor doesn't carry them.
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PSW Power 750W TSDZ2 kit with 8 pin VLCD5 shipped $285
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I have not installed it yet. Only flashed the OSF firmware and verified the motor spins. I have about 260 miles on the prior version TSDZ2 which I installed last year on an older Raleigh 10 speed, also with OSF firmware.

 

[harryS]

Riding impressions:

Since 2020, I ride about 2200 miles annually with my wife, and another 800 miles solo. We go 12-14 mph. I own the TSDZ2 and also a BBS02 mid drive, and a couple of hub drive motors. Most of my bikes have controllers that peak at 20A, The BBS02 peaks at 26A, and the TSDZ2 peaks at 13A. This is based on my ammeter between the battery and controller.
The original TSDZ2 performance disappointed me. I could barely detect assist in the two lowest assist modes. In highest assist, I could barely maintain 20 mph. After a week, I received the $20 programming cable, and installed eco-cyles "stock" firmware, which raises the current to 15A. That gave me some hope, and I went on to install the embrusa OSF, which is written to work with the VLCD5 display,
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Senor Brusa lives in Portugal and has kept the motor around 12 amps for rliability. I think the firmware allocates more motor power at lower pedal pressures, which benefits slow riders like me. My calculations say I'm getting about 70W in assist 1, compared to about 100W on my hub motor bikes, and 120W on the Bafang, On my Raleigh, that's enough. It allows me to carry a tiny 48V7AH battery with a expected range of 40 miles. I also find it easy to reach 20 mph with pedal assist, I suspect the older firmware required some really heavy torque on the pedals to put out full power. STill, it;s as fast as I want to pedal,.
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It has its limits. Throttle doesn't do much. If I'm hill climbing and got into the wrong gear, throttle is no help. On my bafang, if I made that mistake, the motor would go to work. So would my 20A hubmotor. On the other hand, if I'm in the right gear, the TSDZ2 climbs as well as I can pedal.
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I was going to put the spare TSDZ2B in a conversion for a friend, but I don't think he has the same affinity for biking as me. He probably won't relish the pedal experience as I do, So I'm going to put him in a BBS02.
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Pic from today's ride.

 

[Bob.A]

Thank you both for the quick replies. A few quick questions:

Is the V5 software what is shipped from the factory currently?

How difficult is it to flash to the OSF version, what type of dongle is needed?

I've got a motor and 48v 12.5a battery in the cart from PSW power. Total cost so far is 470 which is much better than where I was before.

I was not aware of the Topeak mounts, I was thinking about fabricating some type of mount or use a triple bob mount. On most tadpoles they are mounting the battery behind the seat. Catrike sells a mount that is about 150. I'll include a picture below. Did I say that everything on recumbent trikes is Uber expensive? I'm not committed to using something like that, I was going to wait to see whether there was enough space to mount the battery forward of the seat or aft. This particular trike folds so I would take that functionality into account when I put it all together. The seat also has several heights that it can be set at so if the battery is to sit underneath, it has to clear.

My normal rides are about 45 minutes, just local streets. I've never been a speed demon and don't expect to be even after this, but would like to go farther and a tad faster. This area (SE VA) is pretty flat so hill climbing isn't much of an issue.

I appreciate all the input so far, it's a big help.

 

[PedalUma]

It will clear. You just need 11Cm. That is if you use a battery like this with the Versa Mounts. There are two per package, you could use four. And use washers for better load distribution. I am uncertain of their BMS chips and the quality of the cells. Fires are a known with cheap batteries. What is the brand of cells, premium, or generic Chinese? The motor looks fine, so then it is just a matter of the level of domestic support. If installed with a six-pin it is so much better. Just do not install the speed sensor. And it will be perky. Then a throttle and brake cutout levers are not needed, along with their extra wires and sloppy connectors. Those items make it whippy. Hence the mixed reviews favoring Bafangs. You will be able to ride for many hours. A 36V system would cut weight. Maybe that is what is a better fit for 1.5 hours of ride time. So, it comes down to, what is reputable domestic support worth over say four years?

 

[Bob.A]

Motor and battery ordered from PSWPower. A bit shy of 500 for both with shipping. Should be here in a few more days. Had to get a special wrench to get the bottom bracket off, but once in hand, it wasn't too bad. Ordered a topeake bar extender for the display and a longer cable for the speed sensor.

I liked the idea of mounting the battery low, and the Terratrike mounts are sweet, but not cheap at about 160 for all the parts. Instead of buying prefab, I'm going to make a mount using stainless U bolts and a section of 3x4 aluminum angle with a total cost about 45 dollars. I'll round over the edges and paint it black so it looks more "OEM" but it should work fine and let the bike fold as long as the battery is first removed.

 

[harryS]

Motor and battery for $500? .That would be a $200 battery then, Hope it works out, FYI, when pswpower was selling on ebay as "elifebike" in 2015, I bought a $220 36V10ah battery from them. To my continued surprise, it still works well enough for a 25 mile ride. I plan to replace the cells someday, but not this winter, Then again, all three batteries I had in 2015 still work reasonably well. Maybe there weren't that many copycats in the business then.
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Yes, get creative and you can mount your battery cradle far more secure than the designers intent. I will add two more attachment points. usually with a u-bolt in the rear. and hose clamps in front, If there are no frame holes, I add more clamps,

 

[harryS]

About OSF programming. You may have seen this link.
https://empoweredpeople.co.uk/2020/05/28/tongsheng-tsdz2-what-firmware-options-are-there/
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I already had the STM part but I bought a ready-made cable. Just wanted to get rid of one variable, It was easy enough to download the program components and install on my Dell laptop, As it's winter, I really haven't had the opportunity to try different things.
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I decided to buy that BBS02B for my friend's project. He's not ready for a Euro styple pedelec ebike. American throttle and big watts for him. $410 for the motor and it arrives this weekend.

 

[Bob.A]

Yeah, that was the only battery that they had with US shipping. Chinese cells but rated for 48v at 12.5a. I shopped around and it looked like comparable everywhere else (Ebay, Amazon) was about 270. Guess we'll see how it works once it all gets here.

Not planning on drilling any extra holes if I can help it. Will see what the wiring looks like and go from there.

 

[Bob.A]

Motor and battery came in Friday. I was a bit surprised that it did not have a throttle. Looking online it looks like I got a 6 pin version that does not support the throttle function. I dont think they had one that mentioned a throttle, maybe I just assumed. I'm guessing its possible to mod the board and add the wiring but I'll hold off on that till I get some use out of the bike.

Motor mounted up easy enough in the bottom bracket. This particular bike has a welded on tab on the bottom for a chain gobbler so I decided to use that to anchor the motor. I cobbled up a piece of 1/2 inch aluminum on the bandsaw and drilled it on both ends. Both the motor tab and the chain gobbler tab were threaded so I used the existing bolts along with some stainless washers to space it out. I'll trim the bolts down to a better length when I get it all finalized.

Also worked on the battery mount as well. I got 4 60mm stainless U bolts off amazon for about 9 bucks and a hunk of 3 x 4 aluminum angle a foot long. Some more drilling and cutting and I got it to this point. Still waiting on some more hardware to come in to bolt it up.

I did get into setup and set it to MPH and update the wheel size. Turning the crank with the bike on the stand doesnt seem to generate enough torque to spin the motor, but I did get it to go into walk mode which demonstrated that it did run.

I left the front derailleur on because I think it will help to support the chain guide to the front sprocket. I may swap out the single 42 for a double but will wait till its been on the road for a bit.

 

[harryS]

If you're up to digging out the conformal coating, this link will give you the attach points for a throttle. The OSF software allows users to plug a temperature sensor in place of the throttle.

How to install motor temperature sensor

Contribute to OpenSourceEBike/TSDZ2_wiki development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

 

[Bob.A]

I got the bike put together today and took it for a test ride. What I had left to do was to finish up the battery mount and secure the wiring.

I had bought a 3x4x12 piece of aluminum angle and had did some work on it, but was not happy that it would support the battery fully since it was a bit narrow and the battery would have sat maybe 2/3 on the metal and 1/3 or more off. I scrounged around my junk pile and decided to use an old aluminum boat hatch from another project to expand the base of the mount. I cut it down and did some test fits till I was happy and secured it with some stainless screws. I had to make sure I could get to the battery switch and also had to make sure the bike would still fold at least without the battery mounted. To that end I had to mount the battery with the keys to the outside since there would not be enough room the other way.

Got the bike back outside and finished up with the pedals and added a few extra zip ties to keep things neat. I checked and I can get my arm back and under the seat to access the switch. So far so good.

Got it on the road and my immediate reaction was was yep, bionic legs. I was doing 10 or 11 mph without really trying where before I would do maybe 5 to 6. The happy spot seemed to be on the third level. I was still having to work which is what I wanted but now I was going quite a bit faster. Success.