Turbo Tero 3.0 vs 5.0

[hemismith]

My wife and I have been looking for a bike for paved paths and easy dirt trails, no serious mountain biking. And as we are just casual riders we don't want to spend a fortune. I narrowed it down to Specialized and Trek models currently on sale as local stores.

We settled on the Turbo Tero 3.0 and put down a deposit but haven't picked it up yet. It had a smaller motor than I wanted but my daughter has a Scott bike with the same 50 Nm and says it's fine, and the dealer assured me we would have no problem making it up a particular large hill nearby. We did a little test drive and liked it enough to put down a deposit. However, I was really tempted by the Tero X 4.0's full suspension. Everyone assures us we don't need it, but boy does it soak up the bumps nicely. But I didn't want to pay that much more.

After I got home I did some research and found a number of poor reviews on the 3.0, mainly due to its lack of power coupled with poor gearing, which they said made it difficult on some hills unless you are in really good shape, which we aren't; we are also pushing 60. The X 4.0 has the same motor but better gearing. They also mentioned motor noise and a few other issues, although we didn't notice that. Then I saw the 5.0 - a little cheaper than the X (on sale), no FS but much better motor and other components.

So the questions are:

• For those of you who have a 3.0, do you like it or wish you had gotten something different?
• Can you put a smaller chainring on the 3.0 to get better gearing?
• Have they fixed the motor noise issues?

Had I known I would consider $3k+ bikes, I would have looked at the Trek Powerfly 4, which has great components and is cheaper. I'm normally a buy once cry once person, but not sure it's worth spending that much on a bike; maybe we should just get the cheaper one and avoid big hills, and if we really start doing a lot then save up for both a better motor and full suspension. But I don't want to spend $5k and still be unhappy.

 

[Ben J]

Hill performance is going to depend mostly on total weight: You plus the bike. Your daughter's experience is only a guide if you are about her size (and the bike is geared about the same). You will need to be able to put in some power to get full power out of the bike because it's a multiplier on your own input. I don't remember the multiplier for the Tero 3.0, it might be 4x. That means if you pedal 100w, it would assist 400w (with the bike at its highest setting). Compare that to a throttle based bike where you can get 750w by pushing a button.

You can probably change the chainring on the non-X Teros, but the gear range on the 3.0 is pretty narrow already. For my own riding I would worry that the 36/11 stock top gear would be too low for me on flat sections of road. On the X Teros (the full suspension ones) I am skeptical about changing the chainring because the chain has to pass the moving part of the suspension arm and there's an indentation for the chain. Any significant change would probably cause the chain to rub.

Motor noise is very personal. You just have to try it and see. It will depend on how you feel about the exact frequency and type of noise.

Regarding Tero vs Tero X (suspension): I wouldn't get a Tero X unless you're riding in rooty areas or on really rough pavement or chunky gravel. Anything smaller than that is smoothed out by tires more than suspension.

 

[Saratoga Dave]

I’ll jump in here as one of the semi official Spesh fans hanging around. First off, the Tero 5 is currently on sale at $3500, which I sort of assume you know, but which is a significant price drop from where it was.

That said, the extra gear and the six more teeth on the low gear (42 vs 36) mean an enormous difference in climbing ability and comfort. They both have 36 teeth rings in front, and you don’t want to go any smaller than that on a non full-on mountain bike since you’ll limit your cruising speed too much.

Add in the much higher motor power and it really seems apparent that the 5 is worth it. You don’t want to spend your ebike career knowing you should have gone for the better gear range (and better components as well) and more power.

All that said, I went the other way, from a very powerful Giant gravel bike to a first gen Creo, intentionally cutting my power in half in exchange for the far lighter and more responsive feel of the road oriented Creo. I was actively looking to do some more work and in fact usually ride most of my distances with the assistance turned off. How long I will be able to keep this up remains to be seen, as year 73 closes in on me in a couple months. I’ve already zeroed in on the Tero 5 or whatever exists like it at that time when I’m ready to start taking it easier.

 

[RTeremi]

Hello from Ivins your neighbor to the west. Our local bike shop Red rock bicycle are great folks to work with, they have good experience with the Tero. I considered buying one from them, but stuck for the Turbo Vado for the type of riding I prefer.

Yes there are certainly advantages mechanically as your go from level to level. My 2 cents in this is: Ask yourself this: which is the larger looming question, actual performance as you ride model (__). or the perception that there is something better out there? (Or that negative reviews of something will keep doubting your decision) In other words if you buy the 3 will you dwell mentally on the 4 or the negative comments? If not, get the 3 and enjoy riding it! Or get the 4 and you won’t have it lingering in your mind. Either of those bikes are going to be great fun in our area.

Red Rock will customize either of those models to your hearts content (and wallet); say if you want different gear ratios….

Cheers!

 

[hemismith]

Hill performance is going to depend mostly on total weight: You plus the bike. Your daughter's experience is only a guide if you are about her size (and the bike is geared about the same). You will need to be able to put in some power to get full power out of the bike because it's a multiplier on your own input. I don't remember the multiplier for the Tero 3.0, it might be 4x. That means if you pedal 100w, it would assist 400w (with the bike at its highest setting). Compare that to a throttle based bike where you can get 750w by pushing a button.

You can probably change the chainring on the non-X Teros, but the gear range on the 3.0 is pretty narrow already. For my own riding I would worry that the 36/11 stock top gear would be too low for me on flat sections of road. On the X Teros (the full suspension ones) I am skeptical about changing the chainring because the chain has to pass the moving part of the suspension arm and there's an indentation for the chain. Any significant change would probably cause the chain to rub.

Motor noise is very personal. You just have to try it and see. It will depend on how you feel about the exact frequency and type of noise.

Regarding Tero vs Tero X (suspension): I wouldn't get a Tero X unless you're riding in rooty areas or on really rough pavement or chunky gravel. Anything smaller than that is smoothed out by tires more than suspension.

Thanks, we are both around 180 lbs, our daughter is maybe 140. Her bike as the same cassette but a 32T chainring instead of 36. So in theory maybe a 25% or more advantage altogether.

It seems most cassettes have an 11T top gear, and most chainrings I've seen are 32, 34, or 36. I'm not worried about top speed, we aren't fast riders, but I don't have anything to compare to at this point.

The reviews said there were horrible noise, like it was banging around, not just the normal hum. I didn't notice any noise but only so much you can do riding around a parking lot. They rent bikes but unfortunately not that model.

 

[hemismith]

I’ll jump in here as one of the semi official Spesh fans hanging around. First off, the Tero 5 is currently on sale at $3500, which I sort of assume you know, but which is a significant price drop from where it was.

That said, the extra gear and the six more teeth on the low gear (42 vs 36) mean an enormous difference in climbing ability and comfort. They both have 36 teeth rings in front, and you don’t want to go any smaller than that on a non full-on mountain bike since you’ll limit your cruising speed too much.

Add in the much higher motor power and it really seems apparent that the 5 is worth it. You don’t want to spend your ebike career knowing you should have gone for the better gear range (and better components as well) and more power.

All that said, I went the other way, from a very powerful Giant gravel bike to a first gen Creo, intentionally cutting my power in half in exchange for the far lighter and more responsive feel of the road oriented Creo. I was actively looking to do some more work and in fact usually ride most of my distances with the assistance turned off. How long I will be able to keep this up remains to be seen, as year 73 closes in on me in a couple months. I’ve already zeroed in on the Tero 5 or whatever exists like it at that time when I’m ready to start taking it easier.

Thanks. Yes, it seems like a really good deal, although the regular price seems quite high compared to the Trek which has similar levels of equipment.

Sounds like you're doing great, I hope I am in half as good of shape when I'm your age. I was only ever using Eco on my test ride but will turn off assistance when I can.

 

[hemismith]

Hello from Ivins your neighbor to the west. Our local bike shop Red rock bicycle are great folks to work with, they have good experience with the Tero. I considered buying one from them, but stuck for the Turbo Vado for the type of riding I prefer.

Yes there are certainly advantages mechanically as your go from level to level. My 2 cents in this is: Ask yourself this: which is the larger looming question, actual performance as you ride model (__). or the perception that there is something better out there? (Or that negative reviews of something will keep doubting your decision) In other words if you buy the 3 will you dwell mentally on the 4 or the negative comments? If not, get the 3 and enjoy riding it! Or get the 4 and you won’t have it lingering in your mind. Either of those bikes are going to be great fun in our area.

Red Rock will customize either of those models to your hearts content (and wallet); say if you want different gear ratios….

Cheers!

Hey, great to hear from a local. Red Rock is where I'm getting it from. I asked him if it would have any trouble getting up the Snow Canyon road and he said no. I've only done it in a Rad Power bike, which is heavier but had more power, and only 7 gears, but 34T in front and 42T in the rear. It was tough near the end but we made it.

I don't mind a little extra workout, although in the heat of summer I may think differently. The main issue is my wife really wanted a class 2/3 where she wouldn't have to pedal at all if she didn't feel like it. So my only concern really is if she will be able to make it up hills like that without hating the bike. I admit I am prone to spec envy but at this point I think the cheaper one would be fine for me. We were supposed to pick up the bikes yesterday but our sales person is off yesterday and today so I haven't been able to talk to him about it.

 

[Ben J]

It seems most cassettes have an 11T top gear, and most chainrings I've seen are 32, 34, or 36

A bike meant for road use/commuting (like the Vado) would have a 48t in the front.

 

[RTeremi]

A bike meant for road use/commuting (like the Vado) would have a 48t in the front.

Exactly; I have a 48T chainring; though I still grind snow canyon climb. My loop is Kayenta to snow canyon, to veyo, to gunlock and home. I’m leaning towards Creo as the next bike.

 

[hemismith]

A bike meant for road use/commuting (like the Vado) would have a 48t in the front.

I'm referring to similar bikes.

 

[hemismith]

Exactly; I have a 48T chainring; though I still grind snow canyon climb. My loop is Kayenta to snow canyon, to veyo, to gunlock and home. I’m leaning towards Creo as the next bike.

Maybe less is more, i.e. we'll get in better shape if we choose less power.

 

[Ben J]

I'm referring to similar bikes.

I just mention it because a common complaint of ebike riders is "ghost pedaling," where you are going so fast that there are no more gears that give you any pedal resistance. It's easier to hit those speeds on an ebike. By my math, the 36t + 11-36t + 29" wheels will hit 25mph at a 90 RPM pedaling cadence. To reach the max class 3 assist speed of 28MPH you'd have to pedal at about 100RPM, which is pretty fast (especially for us old guys).

For comparison, my Tero X 6 is 38t + 10-50t + 27.5" (rear) which takes me to almost exactly 28mph at 90RPM and I definitely notice that on downhills.

 

[hemismith]

I just mention it because a common complaint of ebike riders is "ghost pedaling," where you are going so fast that there are no more gears that give you any pedal resistance. It's easier to hit those speeds on an ebike. By my math, the 36t + 11-36t + 29" wheels will hit 25mph at a 90 RPM pedaling cadence. To reach the max class 3 assist speed of 28MPH you'd have to pedal at about 100RPM, which is pretty fast (especially for us old guys).

For comparison, my Tero X 6 is 38t + 10-50t + 27.5" (rear) which takes me to almost exactly 28mph at 90RPM and I definitely notice that on downhills.

Good info, thanks. Although I'm pretty mechanical I've never been seriously in to biking so not familiar with all these, but I find it very interesting. I don't think I've ever been faster than 20 so not sure I'll even want to, but I'll get used to it. I was seriously thinking about the Tero X 4.0, which has better gearing, but other aspects of it seem subpar.

 

[hemismith]

Thanks everyone. It sounds like changing the chainring is not a good idea. I am looking at other cassette options, but don't see anything in the line it comes with. Maybe other lines can be used, but seems like that could require changing a lot of other stuff to which wouldn't be worth it.

On another note, the main reason I was considering full suspension is because I have a bad disc in my back and it doesn't take much compression to aggravate it. But although the X 4.0 has better gears, its SX components are not very well rated. The 5.0 is another $500 and probably well worth it, but that's a lot more than we want to pay right now. Having a hard time convincing my wife of the Tero 5.0 as it is.

Sorry I'm so new at this. I've found it fascinating reading about all the difference components, now I appreciate it all more.

 

[hemismith]

Well, the price on the 5.0 went up today so it's no longer an option, even though last night the dealer said they would still honor that price today. I may look at the Trek Powerfly instead but will probably just get the 3.0 and see how it goes. Thanks all for your input.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I don't remember the multiplier for the Tero 3.0, it might be 4x.

It's rather 2.8x.

 

[Saratoga Dave]

So Hemismith, which way did you end up going and how’s it working out?

 

[hemismith]

So Hemismith, which way did you end up going and how’s it working out?

Well, we went ahead and looked at the Trek Powerfly 4 but my wife didn't like it. I was surprised at how noisy it was too. So we went back to the Specialized shop, but then my wife decided we should get full suspension after all. So we decided not to get anything then and think about it and look at other options, given the price of the Tero X 4.0 and its small motor. We checked out the Trek Rail 5 Gen 2 which is on sale, but she didn't like that either. So then we tried a Giant Stance and she liked it so we ordered those. We haven't received them yet though. So we'll see how it works out. I don't like how much heavier it is than the Trek though.