My WW Custom Design / Build Diary

Edrummer said:
Is this bike going to be made out of titanium or carbon fiber?
Click to expand...
Titanium

1624118360306.png
 
My vision is for a hybrid TI fat-tire commuter, cruiser, and cargo with an emphasis on range and comfort for all terrains in my area. My new frame built will be based off the Salsa Blackborow GX Eagle.
 
mradel said:
My vision is for a hybrid TI fat-tire commuter, cruiser, and cargo with an emphasis on range and comfort for all terrains in my area. My new frame built will be based off the Salsa Blackborow GX Eagle.
Click to expand...
And a worthy vision it is indeed. JMO but Ti is a beautiful thing in a bike frame. I wouldn't bother with paint. This bike is gonna cost you a mint. It's like you are building the prototype but it will be most probably one of a kind. Which is too bad but maybe somebody else will take up the call with chrome-moly or aluminum. You are creating the Lamborghini of cargo bikes but those within the market for such bikes don't even have Porsche money. :)
 
reed scott said:
Ti is a beautiful thing in a bike frame. I wouldn't bother with paint.
Click to expand...
I agree and it may remain naked. My goal is to darken the Ti without losing its beauty but that may be difficult without a full paint and then I agree why bother.

reed scott said:
You are creating the Lamborghini of cargo bikes but those within the market for such bikes don't even have Porsche money.
Click to expand...
A bike shop a few blocks from me specializes in high-end electric cargo bikes. I decided to go custom to get the build my way. In the end the cost comparison between the two made it an easy choice for me, it will be more money but not out of this world more.

www.perennialcycle.com

Electric Bikes

Perennial Cycle
www.perennialcycle.com www.perennialcycle.com
 
UPDATE 6: The Waiting Game (Part Two)

I spoke with Pushkar and the build is still moving bit by bit - expected ship date late September or October. This items below are still is process.
  1. Battery Design - A design concept was agreed last Sunday 5/2/2021. Super excited - the specs and functionality will be amazing and I will share the specs once it is confirmed we can build it but as a teaser the capacity will be 2.2 to 2.6 kWh. A lot of thought went into this concept. In-Progress.
    • Issue with battery placement and frame stress. Working through the issue but it appears the cell pack will be located on the rear rack.
      • The main battery will be rack mounted not seat tube mounted
      • In Design - a standard battery mount will be added to the seat tube for regular rides and the rack mount for extended rides.
      • The extras on the rack battery:
        • Confirmed 21700 battery cells 8/14/2021 - YEA!!!!!!!
        • Display on case, USB ports for charging
        • Integrated battery charger
        • Ability to charge at car charging stations
  2. Components – Changes from the proposed build list: Brakes, Saddle, and wired Lights – more details once the build list is confirmed. COVID Related.
    • No changes
  3. Color Scheme – In-Progress but nothing settled yet.
    • Sending me custom titanium samples from shop.
      • Samples were not sent yet - should be this week 8/14/2021
  4. Cost – Have a realistic idea on overall cost but waiting for confirmation on battery build. In-Progress.
    • Expecting a final cost within two weeks. MISSED DEADLINE - Not sure I want to see the final cost. 8/14/2021
More to Follow.
Michael
 
I forgot to ask Pushkar about the rack mount battery ability to be used as an inverter. This was discussed in the design phase. Added to the list. He may have told me at some point there was not enough room in the case but I will confirm.
 
mradel said:
I forgot to ask Pushkar about the rack mount battery ability to be used as an inverter. This was discussed in the design phase. Added to the list. He may have told me at some point there was not enough room in the case but I will confirm.
Click to expand...
@mradel - I know @pushkar is a fan of the J1772 interface, and so am I for my electric car. But IMHO you would be better off with a C14/C13 interface (computer inlet!) and then for America use a NEMA 5-15p to C13 power cord to plug into an outlet. A standard AC outlet in your particular country is going to be far more available than upsetting a car at a charging station….

And assuming possible, do you really want to charge at car charger currents (5-6kW!)?? I believe 5A is standard for a 5p configuration; at 52V that is only 260watts (520W for 10A charging!). Not a good power match/use and the interface is large….
-BB

PS there are C13 to J1772 adapters too in case you really want to charge with a car…

J1772 to IEC C13 Adapter for Electric Motorcycle/Scooter – EVSE Adapters

www.evseadapters.com www.evseadapters.com
 
Last edited:
Fast n' Furious said:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...offerlist.normal_offer.d_image.5b346a891yBu41
image

Been seeing these frames from this company for last 3 years or so.
Certainly not cheap stuff. >$1800.
Pushkar could do wonders with this frame and the X1.
An Ultra powered, long wheelbased Ti heavy hauler. Why not?

TB1IFvs2xD1gK0jSZFsXXbldVXa-24-24.svg
TB1bPMcmZieb18jSZFvXXaI3FXa-24-24.svg

Click to expand...
This is interesting.
image

Starting to work in more than Ti tubes. Roasted Ti to get a rainbow effect.
Someone on this forum initially pointed out that if they are not welding in an inert gas, the weld is very weak - contaminated by oxygen.
I laughed at the time, but I go to the standard literature and read "Titanium, demands great attention to cleanliness and the use of auxiliary inert gas shielding these materials. Molten titanium weld metal must be totally protected from contamination by air. Also, hot heat-affected zones and root side of titanium welds must be shielded until temperatures drop below 800°F (427°C)", and..."Reaction of titanium with gases and fluxes makes common welding processes such as gas welding, shielded metal arc, flux cored arc, and submerged arc welding unsuitable ..."
My point? I see photo's, even vids of companies showing them welding Titanium frames, never using inert gas on either side of the joint being arc-welded. Then, I read a French 1993 materials data paper and it concludes, with walls even "beyond 12mm thick, Titanium Plasma welding is fine: https://cdn.ymaws.com/titanium.org/resource/resmgr/ZZ-WCTP1992-VOL2/1992_Vol.2-2-Plasma_Arc_Weld.pdf
Crazy huh? While we've declared 'the process' too expensive to really build an industry, they find it works without 'the process' for most market demands, take over the market and now the USA's at the mercy of importing even Ti tubes to get a piece of the action.
 
BarnBoy said:
@mradel - I know @pushkar is a fan of the J1772 interface, and so am I for my electric car. But IMHO you would be better off with a C14/C13 interface (computer inlet!) and then for America use a NEMA 5-15p to C13 power cord to plug into an outlet. A standard AC outlet in your particular country is going to be far more available than upsetting a car at a charging station….

And assuming possible, do you really want to charge at car charger currents (5-6kW!)?? I believe 5A is standard for a 5p configuration; at 52V that is only 260watts (520W for 10A charging!). Not a good power match/use and the interface is large….
-BB

PS there are C13 to J1772 adapters too in case you really want to charge with a car…

J1772 to IEC C13 Adapter for Electric Motorcycle/Scooter – EVSE Adapters

www.evseadapters.com www.evseadapters.com
Click to expand...
You raise good points and I’ll touch base with Pushkar. The idea (apparently not thought out) was to future proof the bike battery. In my area, we have a National Park and State Park side by side where I ride. They have charging stations throughout the parks but I would likely find a regular 120 outlet.
 
mradel said:
UPDATE 6: The Waiting Game (Part Two)

I spoke with Pushkar and the build is still moving bit by bit - expected ship date late September or October. This items below are still is process.
  1. Battery Design - A design concept was agreed last Sunday 5/2/2021. Super excited - the specs and functionality will be amazing and I will share the specs once it is confirmed we can build it but as a teaser the capacity will be 2.2 to 2.6 kWh. A lot of thought went into this concept. In-Progress.
    • Issue with battery placement and frame stress. Working through the issue but it appears the cell pack will be located on the rear rack.
      • The main battery will be rack mounted not seat tube mounted
      • In Design - a standard battery mount will be added to the seat tube for regular rides and the rack mount for extended rides.
      • The extras on the rack battery:
        • Confirmed 21700 battery cells 8/14/2021 - YEA!!!!!!!
        • Display on case, USB ports for charging
        • Integrated battery charger
        • Ability to charge at car charging stations
  2. Components – Changes from the proposed build list: Brakes, Saddle, and wired Lights – more details once the build list is confirmed. COVID Related.
    • No changes
  3. Color Scheme – In-Progress but nothing settled yet.
    • Sending me custom titanium samples from shop.
      • Samples were not sent yet - should be this week 8/14/2021
  4. Cost – Have a realistic idea on overall cost but waiting for confirmation on battery build. In-Progress.
    • Expecting a final cost within two weeks. MISSED DEADLINE - Not sure I want to see the final cost. 8/14/2021
More to Follow.
Michael
Click to expand...
Not meaning to ask stupid questions, but (I'm too famous for it to stop now) this is a cargo bike, so, 1) why pay all that money for Titanium, when you're adding battery chargers, car-charger fitments and don't care about being a 100lb e-semi ?
2) You're not really going to (sacrilegiously) paint a stunning Titanium frame ??? Are you :eek:
Somebody has to say it (that's me): Painting, Cerakote, Anodizing, Decals, et al on Titanium is up there with using a sharpie to put a moustache on the real Mona Lisa and driving a pink interior' Bugatti Veyron to a Square dance - in a Tux ... uh, quite original.
3) What drivetrain are you using - that's rated for this weight machine with that power?
It sounds as though you plan to move some weight, using that long wheelbase that decreases maneuverability - but who cares on a Mommy Bike w/ baby seats.
Are you limited to a direct-drive and drag-racing up to 20mph? I have doubts even that will work for long. You need a driveshaft.
My 300 Lb Gorilla in the corner asks: but don't Cargo bikes have rear hubs?
Suddenly, everyone realizes (Sounds of monkey's screeching): There are no 'drivetrains' for Hub motored Cargo bikes' because none are needed - Hub Motors will stomp Mid-drives (Ultra included) without a drivetrain and achieve whatever Mph. They have the market cornered - clear into lower motorcycle territory.
My bias against (MAC and MXUS) hubs is manufacturer's unethical, impatient responses and just plain shady BS when it suited them.
Haven't looked lately, but I see a 72v Hub pushing you in style - no chain, no exploded, stripped out IGF's. No limited to 20mph (even though with that long wheelbase having severely reduced maneuverability, 20mph might be correct).
-
So cool, 21700 batteries!
I'd hope that's standard issue an all Pushkar's machines going forward.
Really glad you requested it - or however it came about.
It shows why I love WW. They keep going forward and dumping - obsolete - 18650's is a great idea.
-
Wanna see Ultra work? We all need to see this: In this video Soloked tests 21700's on his Custom Ultra on our local trails during the initial pandemic - eat your heart out Evel Knievel.
He made a battery base w/ his 3D printer, used a pro on eBay, creating custom packs and these awesome rides are SICK.
No promotional nothing. Just real time w/ the Ultra.
You can only do that on those trails once in a lifetime - during a civil lockdown.
.
I went surf fishing. Literally. How ^%#*@ embarrassing.
-
Speaking of fishing, I have to get back to my 'once in a lifetime' dream rod builder. The Titanium parts are limping in from Singapore.
So many hobbies. So little time.
 
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