My U1-600 Battery About To Catch Fire Or Explode?

[Stefan Mikes]

Hmmm... Interesting. The battery has spent yet another night outside. One LED is still on. BLEvo reports 0% charge but the battery still can power the e-bike lighting and the TCU. The voltage is now 32 V, meaning there's still aplenty energy in the cells. The broken cell is still heating the unit. Attaching the battery to the e-bike and turning it on to power the e-bike infrastructure resulted in the increase of the measured temperature from 30 to 32 C.

Keeping the battery outside in the shadow. Let it finally discharge itself totally!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Day Three

The battery at 30.4 V, "rest" temperature 29 C. I again loosely connected the faulty battery to the e-bike. The lights and TCD-w went on again. This time, I pressed the "High Beam" on the remote to light up the Supernova headlight. It worked, the Instant Current rose from 0.4 to 1.0 A. I hoped to discharge the battery quicker that way but after a few minutes the e-bike switched off. Meanwhile, the battery temperature went up from 29 to 32 C, where I stopped the experiment.

Does anyone know whether a damaged battery cells could be totally discharged? Is there any danger in that if the battery would not be used anymore?
@m@Robertson?

 

[Gionnirocket]

Day Three

The battery at 30.4 V, "rest" temperature 29 C. I again loosely connected the faulty battery to the e-bike. The lights and TCD-w went on again. This time, I pressed the "High Beam" on the remote to light up the Supernova headlight. It worked, the Instant Current rose from 0.4 to 1.0 A. I hoped to discharge the battery quicker that way but after a few minutes the e-bike switched off. Meanwhile, the battery temperature went up from 29 to 32 C, where I stopped the experiment.

Does anyone know whether a damaged battery cells could be totally discharged? Is there any danger in that if the battery would not be used anymore?
@m@Robertson?

So now the DIY guy is ok?

Why not take it to you Specialized LBS and let them deal with it? Isn't that the whole point of buying a Specialized? The support.

I could have sworn that this only happens to us DIY guys and those that don't buy from the top 3 brands anyway.
Anywho... Ain't karma a bitch...and what a good day to look in the mirror.

 

[harryS]

First you have a battery that won't charge. It is also losing voltage. It's also warmer than ambient temperature. You can't fix these things. or you shouldn't try. Any battery that self heats is dangerous. The only component in the pack that should get warm when idle is the BMS, and that's only if it is in balance mode.

You can write it off and maybe get someone at the firestation to take it. Or if it has any kind of warranty left, try to get Specialized to give you some money toward a replacement.

 

[Gionnirocket]

First you have a battery that won't charge. It is also losing voltage. It's also warmer than ambient temperature. You can't fix these things. or you shouldn't try. Any battery that heats is dangerous. The only component in the pack that should get warm when idle is the BMS, and that's only if it is in balance mode.

You can write it off and maybe get someone at the firestation to take it. Or if it has any kind of warranty left, try to get Specialized to give you some money toward a replacement.

Soundest advice coming from a DIY guy who doesn't blindly worship the major 3.
Who'd of thought. . .

 

[Stefan Mikes]

First you have a battery that won't charge. It is also losing voltage. It's also warmer than ambient temperature. You can't fix these things. or you shouldn't try. Any battery that heats is dangerous. The only component in the pack that should get warm when idle is the BMS, and that's only if it is in balance mode.

You can write it off and maybe get someone at the firestation to take it. Or if it has any kind of warranty left, try to get Specialized to give you some money toward a replacement.

I know all of this. My question was: "Is it safe to have the battery totally discharged?"

 

[Losna]

According to this site it is recommended:

The first step in safely disposing of a defective lithium-ion battery is to discharge it completely, as a charged battery can be dangerous. As the IOSH writes, this should be achieved “using a circuit that incorporates a suitable load to prevent a short circuit.”

Lithium-Ion Battery Disposal: How to Handle Defective Lithium-Ion Batteries

If you’re looking to dispose of a defective lithium-ion battery, there’s a safe, responsible way to do so to protect your people and the environment.

www.emtez.co.uk

 

[Dmac]

I know all of this. My question was: "Is it safe to have the battery totally discharged?"

Yes. More safe to have a discharged battery. Could be a failure in the electronics as well but good batteries like that typically won't catch fire because they have safety fail safes built in. Sorry about your dead battery. I had one die on me for my winter bike and it was replaced under warranty. For me, it simply no longer held a charge but a hot battery like yours is always scary.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Thank you for your useful information @Losna and @Dmac!

As it looks now, the battery has lost most of its charge. Pressing the switch does not light the LED up, and the battery is not as warm as it was before. I am now hoping to store it for a while so that it is completely discharged through the faulty cell, and then find a company that can dispose of the battery.

 

[Mike_V]

Thank you for sharing what must be a very important, and trying, experience Stefan.
Especially at this time of year - I believe.
You have developed a style of writing for us all that has been steadfast for many years about yourself and eBike riding and your equipment.
I appreciate the fact that you have written about this battery ( and eBike system ) that you depend upon, have invested in and have written about at great lengths over the years. Good luck to you as you work though this challenge and the comments from the 'peanut gallery' as you keep faith with your brand.
I look forward to reading about it - however this works out because it's a shame that such a device appears to have failed so early.
Mike

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Thank you for sharing what must be a very important, and trying, experience Stefan.
Especially at this time of year - I believe.
You have developed a style of writing for us all that has been steadfast for many years about yourself and eBike riding and your equipment.
I appreciate the fact that you have written about this battery ( and eBike system ) that you depend upon, have invested in and have written about at great lengths over the years. Good luck to you as you work though this challenge and the comments from the 'peanut gallery' as you keep faith with your brand.
I look forward to reading about it - however this works out because it's a shame that such a device appears to have failed so early.
Mike

Thank you for your kind words Mike.

The situation is not hopeless as I still own two other batteries: one (Black) with the identical number of charges but more degraded than the Gray and the Blue with half of the recharge cycles. I was more scared to cause a fire where I live than worried about the battery loss. And well, that battery was manufactured 7 years ago

There is an e-bike battery regeneration service within a riding distance. Perhaps these people could rebuild the battery. I wonder whether it would work if all the cells were replaced with identical new ones. (Not that I could not afford buying a new battery but who could guarantee the new battery would not be NOS?)

 

[Eband]

one of our Como's (3.0) started shutting down at @ 60 percent charge left on bikes display (after close to 20K miles) . Appeared to fully charge but bike would suddenly shut down completely. LBS had sftwe verifying dead cell. I did get a new one thru the "LBS" ($$!) who mentioned Specialized was not cooperative on Batts as in past. LBS had a few new bike batts crap out and Specialized balked at warranty replacement.
.
LBS sent the old Batt out for disposal but before I brought it to them I hooked up an old car headlite to the batts' power terminals until totally dead (outside away from buildings).

hav fun

. .

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It took me 3 days and nights to discharge the battery through the dead cell. The LBS said they pay the disposal service to take the old batteries. A friend told me I could deliver the old battery to a company dealing with waste nearby as they gladly take any electro-waste. Another friend adviced taking the battery to PSZOK (Point Of Selective Disposal Of Communal Waste), which is bound by EU law to take electro-junk.

Meanwhile, I contacted a Warsaw company, which motto is the things should be repaired not disposed of. I delivered the battery for rebuild there. What I didn't like to hear there was the company is not rebuilding e-bike batteries but rather inserts new ready made 36V 15 or 20 Ah battery packs into the existing case and connects the pack to the existing BMS. I honestly doubt that would work but let us see... (I simply distrust any company talking ampere-hour instead of watt-hour). The Specialized BMS might be programmed to understand there are 16.8 Ah/604 Wh cells in the original battery and refuse to work if the BMS finds 540 or 720 Wh there.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Update:

The status of the repair as seen online has changed from "Being diagnosed" to "Rejected". I think the guys at the GTX could see an advanced e-bike battery for the first time in their lives! (That's why I can only smile when I think of DIY builders and the followers of Grin Technologies) Yes, there is a service in Germany to specifically rebuild Specialized batteries but sending the battery to Germany is unfeasible.

Which reminds me of the day I collected my new Vado from an LBS...

My Vado post her first ride, November 1st, 2019.

There was an youtuber by nickname of WrongWay! (who was promoting DIY built, 100 km/h mini-motobikes pretending to be e-bikes) hanging around. His "e-bike" looked as if was just pulled out of a junkyard A big homemade battery was taking the entire frame front triangle. At the sight of my Vado he stood and looked like he was unable to breathe It was because the poor bastard could see a quality production e-bike for the first time in his life! He asked about the maximum assisted speed and was impressed it was a 45 km/h, pedal assist e-bike. He was complaining on the motor overheating in his "e-bike", too.

My feeling is the techie at GTX lost his breath, too, when he saw how an advanced e-bike battery was built!

Well, I need to recover my charger from GTX, and perhaps would leave the battery there.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Update:

The status of the repair as seen online has changed from "Being diagnosed" to "Rejected". I think the guys at the GTX could see an advanced e-bike battery for the first time in their lives! (That's why I can only smile when I think of DIY builders and the followers of Grin Technologies) Yes, there is a service in Germany to specifically rebuild Specialized batteries but sending the battery to Germany is unfeasible.

Which reminds me of the day I collected my new Vado from an LBS...

View attachment 176439
My Vado post her first ride, November 1st, 2019.

There was an youtuber by nickname of WrongWay! (who was promoting DIY built, 100 km/h mini-motobikes pretending to be e-bikes) hanging around. His "e-bike" looked as if was just pulled out of a junkyard A big homemade battery was taking the entire frame front triangle. At the sight of my Vado he stood and looked like he was unable to breathe It was because the poor bastard could see a quality production e-bike for the first time in his life! He asked about the maximum assisted speed and was impressed it was a 45 km/h, pedal assist e-bike. He was complaining on the motor overheating in his "e-bike", too.

My feeling is the techie at GTX lost his breath, too, when he saw how an advanced e-bike battery was built!

Well, I need to recover my charger from GTX, and perhaps would leave the battery there.

As usual... a lot of assumptions and incorrect conclusions.
But you were on the right track earlier...

I don't think Specialized anyone in Poland is as advanced
Will try anyway!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

For the record, Idiot, Bosch E-bike batteries are made in Poland

 

[Gionnirocket]

Well that would explain the battery failure.... but I believe it's Hungry & Malaysia
But wait!... aren't Bafang motors made in Poland

Ok now standing by for some maps, full Strava stats and a pic of a 6th place dufas that justifies everything in your mind.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Can't even believe some Muricans could be that stupid

 

[Gionnirocket]

Yet

Can't even believe some Muricans could be that stupid

Yet the proverbial dumb Polack is internationally known

 

[m@Robertson]

I missed this until getting tagged above, but it seems like the solution has already been arrived at.

Of course the battery can be discharged... but can it be done safely? I would argue no to that given the problem description. The Specialized BMS is proprietary, and you already know there is a failure of some kind, somewhere. It seems like its in a cell, but is it for sure? Difficult to say for certain considering the potential risk.

I doubt the 'Rejected' repair is due to being awestruck by the battery innards. More likely it is simply the fact that the proprietary BMS is just that, and any replacement is likely to be rejected... so why bother fighting with the customer if the repair doesn't work (the electronics that phone-home are probably also a factor)? I see this happen when I am reading private discussion between ebike retailers. They don't want to screw with the potential for backlash.

I am a DIY guy but I don't screw around with battery construction. I leave it to professionals, am involved in the performance specs and cell choice, and ensure I am dealing with someone who has a reputation for top quality. I can't say I would trust a 3rd party rebuild service without knowing a lot about them already from online commentary over time from satisfied or upset customers.

This is where you would want to be able to cash in on the extra money paid for the Specialized reputation. 140 cycles is awful as reliability goes, even if it is 7 years old. But I suspect they will hang their hat on that 7 year lifespan. We'll see.