My Eco day

[Captain Slow]

Went for a breakfast ride today and since I didn't need to rush to work or anything I thought I'd ride in Eco to test range claims as well as just have a leisurely ride. It was a sunny day (dry weather, but a bit cold on the morning part of the ride), little to no wind.

With the gear I was carrying, plus my weight I'd estimate that total weight carried by the bike was around 200 - 210 lbs. I rode a total of 42.15 km's using 296 watt hours, and I gained 282 metres of elevation. My average speed was 22.3 km/hr. or 13.86 m/hr.

That works out to 7.022 watts/km, or if my conversion is correct 11.299 watts/mile.

According to the "real-world" mileage claims on the Juiced website if you were using assist level 3 with a 190 lb. total payload on flat ground, warm dry weather that going 14 mph you would use 9.7 watt hours per mile. Using Eco where I find it's a much lower drain I used 11.3 watt hours per mile though I did gain 282 metres of elevation, plus my total weight was above the 190 lbs. for their claims.

I suppose it's hard to know how much to adjust for the higher power level, etc ..... but I suspect that if I rode level 3 on flat ground that I probably wouldn't get 9.7 watt hours per mile.

I would be interested in how much battery consumption others are seeing and their parameters. It hasn't been a significant issue, but I am finding that I wish I'd bought the 17.4 ah battery and cycle satiator. If I wanted to ride around time running a whole bunch of errands I'd have range anxiety with my current battery. Having the mid-level battery would significantly help the range and the satiator would allow me to top up the charge and pretty much eliminate range anxiety.

Let's see what happens this summer as I use the bike to ride errands on weekends. Again, would really like to have others post their battery efficiency numbers in this thread, how they use the bike and if they got a bigger than standard battery what their experience has been.

 

[Reid]

It is interesting to know, however, that cadence-sensor-only mode restricts maximum current considerably, vs. torque + cadence sensor. cadence-sensor-only mode amperage restriction may possibly provide higher W/h efficiency for sloppy pedalers like me.

Max current is strictly limited to 5A while in ECO on cadence-sensor-only mode, and something like 7A if the torque sensor is on.

 

[Captain Slow]

Reid, that's interesting. How did you know about the current restriction? I have my bike on the torque sensor, which is the default option.

I think you're saying you use the cadence setting, but maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying.

 

[Reid]

Reid, that's interesting. How did you know about the current restriction? I have my bike on the torque sensor, which is the default option.

Because I noticed from the information screen (it shows you current and amps and volts simultaneously) that using the cadence sensor reduces max current, compared against torque & cadence sensor together (the two sensors work together when we select the torque sensor setting).

For instance, the maximum possible current in S mode when on torque sensor mode is 20A. But in cadence sensor mode the max S current drops to 15A.

 

[Captain Slow]

Ah, that makes sense. I guess I have always just used the torque and cadence sensor together and haven't ever tried cadence only.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Thanks, Cap. I did some testing of amps at different PAS levels a while back. The first test was at 15 mph on a level stretch. In Eco mode, it took 4.1 amps to maintain 15 mph. In Level One, it took 6.1. These were averages of 5 tries. At 18 mph: 5.2 amps on Eco, 7.6 amps on Level One. Again, averaging 5 tries on a level road.

Watt-hours might be of more practical use, although I found the amperage comparisons interesting. I'll do some watt-hour testing sometime soon and get back to you.

 

[SlowRider]

Went for a breakfast ride today and since I didn't need to rush to work or anything I thought I'd ride in Eco to test range claims as well as just have a leisurely ride. It was a sunny day (dry weather, but a bit cold on the morning part of the ride), little to no wind.

With the gear I was carrying, plus my weight I'd estimate that total weight carried by the bike was around 200 - 210 lbs. I rode a total of 42.15 km's using 296 watt hours, and I gained 282 metres of elevation. My average speed was 22.3 km/hr. or 13.86 m/hr.

That works out to 7.022 watts/km, or if my conversion is correct 11.299 watts/mile.

According to the "real-world" mileage claims on the Juiced website if you were using assist level 3 with a 190 lb. total payload on flat ground, warm dry weather that going 14 mph you would use 9.7 watt hours per mile. Using Eco where I find it's a much lower drain I used 11.3 watt hours per mile though I did gain 282 metres of elevation, plus my total weight was above the 190 lbs. for their claims.

I suppose it's hard to know how much to adjust for the higher power level, etc ..... but I suspect that if I rode level 3 on flat ground that I probably wouldn't get 9.7 watt hours per mile.

I would be interested in how much battery consumption others are seeing and their parameters. It hasn't been a significant issue, but I am finding that I wish I'd bought the 17.4 ah battery and cycle satiator. If I wanted to ride around time running a whole bunch of errands I'd have range anxiety with my current battery. Having the mid-level battery would significantly help the range and the satiator would allow me to top up the charge and pretty much eliminate range anxiety.

Let's see what happens this summer as I use the bike to ride errands on weekends. Again, would really like to have others post their battery efficiency numbers in this thread, how they use the bike and if they got a bigger than standard battery what their experience has been.

I didn't realize you had started this thread. I started a very similar thread yesterday (real world battery range) where some posters have responded with some numbers. My take-away was sort of the same as yours, i.e. that I am not able to match the real-world numbers from the Juiced Website.

 

[Asher]

As I posted in the other thread. 9.4 watts per mile on Eco and 1. When on Eco only, I got 8.7 watts per mile. 190 lbs of rider and gear. Lights on for the 8.7 watts portion (14 mile length).

I also try to minimize braking.

 

[Chris Hammond]

I didn't realize you had started this thread. I started a very similar thread yesterday (real world battery range) where some posters have responded with some numbers. My take-away was sort of the same as yours, i.e. that I am not able to match the real-world numbers from the Juiced Website.

There is one obvious variable in the Juiced numbers that can't be replicated exactly; that being the rider. Pedaling effort is highly subjective. The only real way to take this subjectivity out would be to put a power meter on the rider himself during the entire test and then have the rider put in "X" number of Watts of power during the entire ride. Even then, the size and shape of the rider will be different from each of us, not to mention riding position, clothing, etc. all which affect aerodynamics. In the end, each of us will likely get an individual trend over time of average watts/ mile ridden. Not very different from driving cars actually. I average ~10-15% better mileage than my wife does driving the same vehicle in the same conditions. Pretty sure I'm not pedaling any harder in the 6000 lb. Denali XL

 

[Bruce Arnold]

@Chris Hammond good point about the pedaling effort. What might seem like very little effort to a trained athlete like Tora (when he did his real world comparisons) would probably seem like a lot of effort to an old out-of-shape guy like me. In doing my comparisons, I tried to use the bare minimum of torque, i.e. just enough to hear the motor kick in.

 

[Asher]

I'm now averaging 10 watts per mile or more ( I didn't reset the trip counter from when I got 9 watts per mile).

My main technique is to brake less. Braking kills the energy the motor just put out. So more strain on your brakes and more energy loss. Of course to do that safely, you even out your speeds, and don't go too fast if you have to slow or stop ahead.