MXUS GDR19-FAT - Most powerful geared motor?

[Boosted]

Posting in the Bafang forum as there is no MXUS forum, and this motor may be relevant to users of the Bafang geared hubs.

This is somewhat of a new motor, and limited information is available in english. Here is some information that may help. XF19R XF19R-FAT GDR19 FAT GDR19-FAT

2 versions of the motor exist, a 750w-1000 rated motor and 1200w-1500 rated motor. This is the highest rating of any geared hub motor, and also has the highest advertised maximum torque of 125nm as well as the highest rated voltage (48-60v rated) and the largest diameter core, and therefore appears to be the most powerful geared hub motor available.

I was told by Mxus import/export on Alibaba, the difference between the 2 motors is the 750w has 20H magnets, and 1200w has 25H magnets. This is the only difference I have been able to identify so far between the two. Not sure if copper fill is any different but would imagine it might be. However see the picture below, the copper fill looks quite nice (a significant amount of copper is stuffed in these larger diameter motors). See the photo below, the motor has a larger stator/rotor than previous generation geared motors, allowing more copper and a greater amount of torque due to leverage ratio.

I was told it is available in 4T and 5T configurations, with the 5T having 400rpm unloaded at 48v, and 4T having 500rpm unloaded at 48v.

Take a look at the clutch picture- you will notice it has 2 notches, where 2 feather/parallel/magnet keys can fit. The feather key slot is much larger than previous generation geared motors. This is perhaps why the motor can handle more torque. When running high torque on prior models the feather key would shear off, this model has a much stronger (longer) feather key, as well as feather keys on both sides, and appears it can withstand significantly more torque than previous motors. The gears appear to still be nylon, but of course can be upgraded.

Also attached is a hard to find dimensions diagram of the motor

What I like- Appears to have more copper, larger diameter, stronger axle/clutch, in comparison to previous motors.

Regarding purchasing- Very limited information is available on this for english speaking countries and only 1 or 2 sellers have this motor on Aliexpress, the cost is typically $400-450 or more. I ordered from Alibaba, and was able to acquire the motor much cheaper. Not only was it cheaper, I could choose between axle widths (175mm/190mm) and the turn count (4T/5T) as well as the wattage (750/1200). Lastly and most importantly the factory allows customization of the motor cable, I was able to have a factory installed L1019 MALE connector rather than an inferior Z916 or other. Alibaba also seemed more knowledgeable than any of the other limited sellers. Changzhou Mxus Imp.&Exp. Co., Ltd. on Alibaba if it helps anyone.

Hope this helps anyone that cannot find information about this motor. I will be testing this motor and add more information when I can in 30-60 days, comparing it against the next closest competitor the Bafang G062.

 

[JTK77]

Bafang G062.1000 motor comes stock with L1019 motor cable. Magnets are 30H.
I have modified this motor further and running it will 60v (16s) 90A battery DC, 190A phase. Still torque is ~190Nm. Inertia dyno wheel output results 154Nm at 215rpm and 5,42 HP at 270rpm.

 

[Boosted]

Bafang G062.1000 motor comes stock with L1019 motor cable. Magnets are 30H.
I have modified this motor further and running it will 60v (16s) 90A battery DC, 190A phase. Still torque is ~190Nm. Inertia dyno wheel output results 154Nm at 215rpm and 5,42 HP at 270rpm.

All the G062's are 30H, the mxus is only 25H but has a larger rotor diameter to fit more magnets, plus the larger stator leverage and more copper. The stronger axle/clutch should be a huge benefit too as I have had issues with shearing the keys under high torque and have heard of this happening to several others too, to the point where some were welding the clutch on to the axle. Curious to test it out!

 

[kevinmccune]

HP wars again.

 

[tomjasz]

For what it's worth, I've been running several MXUS motors for nearly a decade now. Both have been excellent performers. One a 1000W Direct Drive will run on 36, 48, or 52V depending on controller. The other a small Gear Drive 36V small enough to be stealthy and can push my hulk along at 20MPH with no issues. Quality motors in my experience. We sold a bunch until we decided to go all in on BBSxx series mid drives. I do still have the MXUS DD as a front drive on my favorite flat foot frame, a Trek Pure. Super comfortable and my trailer puller.

For a geared drive and powerful reliability I really prefer the MAC motors, or EZEE. for DD an ebike.ca 9C (9 Continent) is my favored beast and the 9C is the standard bib which every DD maker tries to emulate. BUT it weighs a TON!!!

 

[INSJBLM]

For what it's worth, I've been running several MXUS motors for nearly a decade now. Both have been excellent performers. One a 1000W Direct Drive will run on 36, 48, or 52V depending on controller. The other a small Gear Drive 36V small enough to be stealthy and can push my hulk along at 20MPH with no issues. Quality motors in my experience. We sold a bunch until we decided to go all in on BBSxx series mid drives. I do still have the MXUS DD as a front drive on my favorite flat foot frame, a Trek Pure. Super comfortable and my trailer puller.

For a geared drive and powerful reliability I really prefer the MAC motors, or EZEE. for DD an ebike.ca 9C (9 Continent) is my favored beast and the 9C is the standard bib which every DD maker tries to emulate. BUT it weighs a TON!!!

For what it's worth, I've been running several MXUS motors for nearly a decade now. Both have been excellent performers. One a 1000W Direct Drive will run on 36, 48, or 52V depending on controller. The other a small Gear Drive 36V small enough to be stealthy and can push my hulk along at 20MPH with no issues. Quality motors in my experience. We sold a bunch until we decided to go all in on BBSxx series mid drives. I do still have the MXUS DD as a front drive on my favorite flat foot frame, a Trek Pure. Super comfortable and my trailer puller.

For a geared drive and powerful reliability I really prefer the MAC motors, or EZEE. for DD an ebike.ca 9C (9 Continent) is my favored beast and the 9C is the standard bib which every DD maker tries to emulate. BUT it weighs a TON!!!

QQ outside of Grin is there a place to scouce a MAC or EZEE motor in the USA, I have a POC at MAC but they really are not set up for direct sales I dont want Regen I e. GMAC and $440 for a $200 motor seems excessive esp if I don't want Regen.

 

[JTK77]

All the G062's are 30H, the mxus is only 25H but has a larger rotor diameter to fit more magnets, plus the larger stator leverage and more copper. The stronger axle/clutch should be a huge benefit too as I have had issues with shearing the keys under high torque and have heard of this happening to several others too, to the point where some were welding the clutch on to the axle. Curious to test it out!

Now run this motor approx 1 year at 190A Peak phase amps and ~190Nm off the line. No major saturation yet. I might consider even but higher Power later on but lets see.
Have you tested mxus at high Power? KV? Torque rating does not promise anything but mechanical strengt basically.

 

[Boosted]

Now run this motor approx 1 year at 190A Peak phase amps and ~190Nm off the line. No major saturation yet. I might consider even but higher Power later on but lets see.
Have you tested mxus at high Power? KV? Torque rating does not promise anything but mechanical strengt basically.

G062 is a great motor no doubt, I have 5 of them too lol. I'm just hoping this is the start of the next "generation" of geared hubs, being larger, and mechanically stronger.

The mechanical strength of the axle for torque I think is huge, allowing them to be run at higher torque without breaking stuff. More durable/reliable, less maintenance, and less permanent damage to the axle (chipping/wearing). Much larger parallel keys, and 2 of them, theoretically can handle twice the torque, or more I would think, atleast from the parallel key standpoint, which in my experience was a significant limitation of the G062.

KV: I posted the specs the Alibaba "manufacturer" told me which is 48v 400rpm for 5T and 500rpm for 4T unloaded (these should be very close but may be off a tiny bit). I ordered 5T. This would be about 8.35 KV for the motor I got. Which is right in the middle of the G062 6T and 6.5T motor (the strongest bafang variants).

Motor is shipped but not delivered yet, should be here within 2 weeks. I'm going to start at 5000w 90 phase amps to see how warm it gets, how it compares. Then go up to 7000w 120 phase amps or 7000w 150 phase amps, just like I did with the G062. Will add venting if it needs it. I expect it will outperform the G062, but time will tell. Will be testing this all out in the next 30-60 days.

 

[JTK77]

G062 is a great motor no doubt, I have 5 of them too lol. I'm just hoping this is the start of the next "generation" of geared hubs, being larger, and mechanically stronger.

The mechanical strength of the axle for torque I think is huge, allowing them to be run at higher torque without breaking stuff. More durable/reliable, less maintenance, and less permanent damage to the axle (chipping/wearing). Much larger parallel keys, and 2 of them, theoretically can handle twice the torque, or more I would think, atleast from the parallel key standpoint, which in my experience was a significant limitation of the G062.

KV: I posted the specs the Alibaba "manufacturer" told me which is 48v 400rpm for 5T and 500rpm for 4T unloaded (these should be very close but may be off a tiny bit). I ordered 5T. This would be about 8.35 KV for the motor I got. Which is right in the middle of the G062 6T and 6.5T motor (the strongest bafang variants).

Motor is shipped but not delivered yet, should be here within 2 weeks. I'm going to start at 5000w 90 phase amps to see how warm it gets, how it compares. Then go up to 7000w 120 phase amps or 7000w 150 phase amps, just like I did with the G062. Will add venting if it needs it. I expect it will outperform the G062, but time will tell. Will be testing this all out in the next 30-60 days.

6T G062 has KV 8.8-8.9rpm/v. I'm feeding this motor 190A Peak phase 60v. Also torque is more than twice the combined G060.750 running 70A phase. No mechanical problems. Need to use dyno when ramping towards 300A.
You might go straight 200A?

 

[Boosted]

6T G062 has KV 8.8-8.9rpm/v. I'm feeding this motor 190A Peak phase 60v. Also torque is more than twice the combined G060.750 running 70A phase. No mechanical problems. Need to use dyno when ramping towards 300A.
You might go straight 200A?

Yep and the 6.5T is like 8kv, so the 5T mxus should be right in between them at about 8.35, a slightly lower KV than the 6T bafang

Riding it hard (full throttle from stops, rocks, wheelies, jumps, etc) I have blown nylon gears, parallel keys, broken clutches, on multiple brand new motors, even with as little as 105NM on the bafang numerous times. Heard of this happening to several other high power G062 users as well, idk lol. The upgraded stainless steel keys and gears definitely help, but it still causes excess wear on the keyhole in the axle (boring it out) causing more problems down the road. So I look forward to the new design with dual larger keyholes.

 

[JTK77]

Yep and the 6.5T is like 8kv, so the 5T mxus should be right in between them at about 8.35, a slightly lower KV than the 6T bafang

Riding it hard (full throttle from stops, rocks, wheelies, jumps, etc) I have blown nylon gears, parallel keys, broken clutches, on multiple brand new motors, even with as little as 105NM on the bafang numerous times. Heard of this happening to several other high power G062 users as well, idk lol. The upgraded stainless steel keys and gears definitely help, but it still causes excess wear on the keyhole in the axle (boring it out) causing more problems down the road. So I look forward to the new design with dual larger keyholes.

I don't do wheelies. Those fails sound like different design or manufacturing defect mayde. Venting and good grease is magic for the gears For the axle its important to have really strong torque arms both side.

 

[tomjasz]

QQ outside of Grin is there a place to scouce a MAC or EZEE motor in the USA, I have a POC at MAC but they really are not set up for direct sales I dont want Regen I e. GMAC and $440 for a $200 motor seems excessive esp if I don't want Regen.

You don't have to go with regen it's a setup option. Damon, Cutler MAC will ship a single motor one time. EZEE is a slightly better motor and I've been using and selling (past tense) bikes.ca motors.

California eBike has a pretty cool sweet setup.

Mxus Hub Motor Custom Build Kit

This high-end geared motor system from Mxus combines the torque and efficiency of the smaller geared motor with bigger windings and gears to accommodate more voltage and amperage for max power (6.5″ diameter, 8 lb. motor). Can be used with batteries from 36v to 52v 900w to 1200w depending on...

california-ebike.com

 

[tomjasz]

I don't do wheelies. Those fails sound like different design or manufacturing defect mayde. Venting and good grease is magic for the gears For the axle its important to have really strong torque arms both side.

Where are you located?

 

[Boosted]

I don't do wheelies. Those fails sound like different design or manufacturing defect mayde. Venting and good grease is magic for the gears For the axle its important to have really strong torque arms both side.

I run them on a bomber frame, so it has about the strongest torque arms of any bike on the market. Motor is vented.

Nylon gears have stripped within 5 miles on brand new motors, Ive tried it with multiple new and used motors, they strip before the motor even gets hot, on 105nm (90 phase amps). If I take it easy I can maybe "get by" with them, but they dont seem to handle going hard. Soaking them in grease could help too, I usually run minimal grease.

The parallel keys I've broken a bunch of too. It could be the steel gears that make them go faster, instead of the gears slipping its putting the torque on the key. The 12mm and 14mm axles do have slightly different keys in them. A welded clutch may help by not allowing the freewheel to engage/disengage putting less stress on the keys. But it has been a recurring problem for me, the OEM keys shear for me at 105nm when going hard. I have heard of this happening to others as well, one guy welded the clutch on to the axle (welded the key) for example. Anyways thats one of the things that sold me on the mxus motor was having dual, stronger keys, should eliminate half the problems.

 

[JTK77]

Where are you located?

Finland

 

[kevinmccune]

Finland

You cant win against a Finn!

 

[Boosted]

Its a nice piece, heres some good and bad-

Motor ran well sensorless, with a little stutter at startup. I could not get it to run with sensors (which I have heard as being a problem for others from the limited online information).

Whoever wired the L1019 must have been a monkey. Red was wired to black. Black was wired to red. White was a hall sensor. Hall sensor didnt match in color. Hall sensor colors didnt even match phase colors on the hall sensor board. I wish I knew this before spending all day figuring it out and taking the brand new motor apart

Some of the copper was a little bit loose, I sprayed some insulating varnish on it to help hold them in place

While I was trying to figure out why the halls do not work looking at the wire colors under the board, A hall sensor or two was damaged. I ended up replacing hall sensors. Hall sensors test okay, but still does not work sensored. Thinking it may be a 60 degree hall configuration instead of 120- I have some better hall sensors coming and will get to the bottom of this.

Also worth noting this motor may have some ERPM issues depending what controller you run. Its a geared motor so the RPM is already multiplied 5 fold. In addition it has 15 pole pairs, more than the standard 10, so it ends up needing a high ERPM controller, especially when running at 72v.

Aside from the badly wired L1019 and sensor issues, the motor is nice-

Express Air shipping, delivered in about 1 week from ship date
Was able to get extra clutch + extra gears for only $7!!!!
1200w motor came with 1/2 steel 1/2 nylon gears (yay) I have heard of some people getting nylon-only in the past
Its a 10x14 axle, which is better than 10x12 and also means a L1019 or other connector will fit through the motor housing/case making for easy removal

The clutch is a unique clutch- not compatible with Bafang style clutches. It has much stronger/longer keyholes, and dual keyholes, as well as the axle. The clutch also has machining to act as a small spacer between the gears and the rotor, so the gears do not rub against the rotor like Bafang style motors, which is a nice touch. Motor is nearly identical to the Bafangs as far as disassembly, perhaps even easier. Mangets for 1200w measured at 25H as expected x 30 magnets. The steel gears do not make any significant noise, perhaps more than nylon, but not a significant amount. The L1019 cable used was a "Juliet" brand, which is larger gauge than the standard/small Bafang L1019, approximately the same gauge as the G062 motors that come with the medium sized L1019, but also had a little bit of wiggle room in the axle for larger wires which was reassuring.

I'll be riding and seeing how much heat the motor can take as well as working on the sensors in the coming 2 weeks.

 

[INSJBLM]

Its a nice piece, heres some good and bad-

Motor ran well sensorless, with a little stutter at startup. I could not get it to run with sensors (which I have heard as being a problem for others from the limited online information).

Whoever wired the L1019 must have been a monkey. Red was wired to black. Black was wired to red. White was a hall sensor. Hall sensor didnt match in color. Hall sensor colors didnt even match phase colors on the hall sensor board. I wish I knew this before spending all day figuring it out and taking the brand new motor apart

Some of the copper was a little bit loose, I sprayed some insulating varnish on it to help hold them in place

While I was trying to figure out why the halls do not work looking at the wire colors under the board, A hall sensor or two was damaged. I ended up replacing hall sensors. Hall sensors test okay, but still does not work sensored. Thinking it may be a 60 degree hall configuration instead of 120- I have some better hall sensors coming and will get to the bottom of this.

Also worth noting this motor may have some ERPM issues depending what controller you run. Its a geared motor so the RPM is already multiplied 5 fold. In addition it has 15 pole pairs, more than the standard 10, so it ends up needing a high ERPM controller, especially when running at 72v.

Aside from the badly wired L1019 and sensor issues, the motor is nice-

Express Air shipping, delivered in about 1 week from ship date
Was able to get extra clutch + extra gears for only $7!!!!
1200w motor came with 1/2 steel 1/2 nylon gears (yay) I have heard of some people getting nylon-only in the past
Its a 10x14 axle, which is better than 10x12 and also means a L1019 or other connector will fit through the motor housing/case making for easy removal

The clutch is a unique clutch- not compatible with Bafang style clutches. It has much stronger/longer keyholes, and dual keyholes, as well as the axle. The clutch also has machining to act as a small spacer between the gears and the rotor, so the gears do not rub against the rotor like Bafang style motors, which is a nice touch. Motor is nearly identical to the Bafangs as far as disassembly, perhaps even easier. Mangets for 1200w measured at 25H as expected x 30 magnets. The steel gears do not make any significant noise, perhaps more than nylon, but not a significant amount. The L1019 cable used was a "Juliet" brand, which is larger gauge than the standard/small Bafang L1019, approximately the same gauge as the G062 motors that come with the medium sized L1019, but also had a little bit of wiggle room in the axle for larger wires which was reassuring.

I'll be riding and seeing how much heat the motor can take as well as working on the sensors in the coming 2 weeks.

Must have been a Monkey? Meaning not very smart? Who did you buy it from?

 

[Boosted]

The good:
- Large high torque stator
- The motor seems to take heat well, seemingly outperforming the G062- I was able to run 90 phase amps at low RPM (thick sand) non stop for 2+ miles (several minutes) on a warmed up motor
- Steel/Nylon gears from the factory
- Much stronger cluch/drive key setup that will not break under high torque like the G062 solving the mechanical issues
- L1019 from the factory, with decent sized phase wires (same as G062)
- I was able to fit a full size grin L1019 (12 awg) through the axle fairly easily, with just a pair of pliers which is adequate for 150 phase amps (the axle/phase wire holes are LARGER than the G062)
- Motor is easy to disassemble, just as easy as the G062 if not easier

The bad:
- Factory L1019 wiring was bad (as mentioned earlier)
- ERPM possible issues with the motor as it has 50% higher ERPM requirement than G062 due to 50% more magnets
- Seems to be designed for a trapezoid/squarewave controller not sinewave, still working on debugging sensor issues...

I do have a temp sensor installed. Quite impressed with the motor. Need to get the sensors working, and will continue to test at 6000w, 150 phase amps.