Must I buy a new car for my hitch/rack/bikes?

[Mark23]

We previously bought a kuat nv 2.0 tray rack to transport our old bikes - it has a capacity of 60 lbs per bike - no problem there with our new treks. The rack weighs 55 lbs.

https://www.rei.com/product/109807/kuat-nv-20-bike-hitch-rack​

We have a 2012 Mazda 3 which can only support a class 1 hitch and we got the 1.25 inch hitch. Class 1 hitches are weight carrying (WC) hitches rated up to 2000 lbs. gross trailer weight (GTW) with a maximum trailer tongue weight (TW, downward force) of 200 lbs. I thought the 200 lbs would suffice for our 2 new E-bikes (Trek Lift +) and the rack. The bikes each way 45 lbs, and if we remove the 6 lb batteries, we get down to 39 lbs each for a total of 78 lbs.

But the hitch folks (where we bought the hitch and Curt, the manufacturer) tell us that for each foot out from the hitch knob, you lose 25% of tongue weight capacity. So for transporting 2 bikes (15" out for the first bike, 27" out for the second), that drops us down to about 100 pounds which does not cover the weight of the rack and the 2 bikes (133 lbs).

While the Kuat folks insist this is not a problem because they've tested the racks with 2 bikes on class 1 hitches all kinds of ways, the hitch folks won't go out on that limb. And I'm really afraid of - not so much damage of damage to our car - but of damage to cars/drivers following us on the interstate greeted by unsolicited bikes, rack, and hitch.

I'm willing to get a new hitch and/or a new rack, but am desperately trying to avoid buying a new car that will support a class 2 or 3 hitch with the additional tongue-weight capacity. So the challenge is to get both bikes and rack under 100 lbs extending outwards not more than 2 feet, or under 150 lbs extending outwards not more than 1 foot, or some interpolation of a combination of a distance and weight in between 1 foot and 2 feet.

We much prefer a hitch-type tray rack but are willing to consider other options that don't involve towing which Mazda does not support for our vehicle.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated!

Update 1:
Now I've got an additional problem. I was resigned to getting a new car and thought I would try a crossover SUV like the Honda CRV or the Mazda CX-5. Since those cars will accept a class 3 hitch with tongue weight limits of 675 lbs, that would easily give me the 300 lbs (at 2 feet from the tongue) that I need. The problem is, then the weak link would be the car, not the rack or the hitch, because those 2 cars have tongue weight limits of 150 lbs and 200 lbs respectively - no better than the class 1 hitch I'm using on my current 2012 Mazda 3. Ugh!! I don't even want a new car, much less one of those even bigger cars like a Honda Pilot.

Update 2:
I did hear back from the Hitch House who sold me the class 1 hitch for the Mazda 3. Regarding the fix of buying a Mazda CX-5 and my concern about Mazda saying the tongue weight limit is 200 lbs. he said that the manufacturer bases these limits on the factory or dealer installed hitch, and that you can increase that limit with an after-market hitch designed for he specific vehicle. So I could get a class 3 hitch for the Mazda CX-5 and it should work for me with its 600 lb tongue-weight limit. At two feet out (for the rack with 2 bikes), I'd still have 300 lbs which would be enough tolerance for the 133 lbs I'm dealing with.

 

[Jeff Backes]

It's be fine. I have a rack that I carried two 50 pound e-bikes all over the country 6280 miles without a problem. My carrier is a saris that is rated for 60 lbs per bike. You have to trust that the manufacture did their homework.

I do worry about the wiggle I see in the rear view mirror so I use two ratchet straps hooked inside the trunk.


Jeff

 

[Mark23]

Thanks Jeff, is your hitch a 1/25" class 1 hitch? My concern is the the bike rack - I trust their specs which says it can support 60 lbs each bike. My concern is the hitch - if you say to trust the manufacturer, the manufacturer of the hitch says it can't be relied on to support the weight of the rack and bikes combined when extended out 2 feet from the hitch knob.

Mark

===
It's be fine. I have a rack that I carried two 50 pound e-bikes all over the country 6280 miles without a problem. My carrier is a saris that is rated for 60 lbs per bike. You have to trust that the manufacture did their homework.

I do worry about the wiggle I see in the rear view mirror so I use two ratchet straps hooked inside the trunk.


Jeff

 

[opimax]

I have a Saris rack rated to 60 lbs , 1 1/4 inch from Hidden hitch for 5 years. I carry 2 Stromers with fenders and racks , batteries removed, seat off on long trips , not for hour trips. No issues w/the hitch. Check for bolts on frame getting loose. Have the same model (but different physical shapes and mounting points).

That being said I have not heard of the formula you mentioned so I can't comment towards it. Your insurance company would be the would I would verify will cover you

 

[Mark23]

Thanks, without knowing the weight of your rack and bikes, I can't tell if your situation is comparable. While liability is always a concern, my primary concern is hurting someone. I'm afraid to take that risk when the hitch manufacturer is telling me I'm taking a significant risk.

I have a Saris rack rated to 60 lbs , 1 1/4 inch from Hidden hitch for 5 years. I carry 2 Stromers with fenders and racks , batteries removed, seat off on long trips , not for hour trips. No issues w/the hitch. Check for bolts on frame getting loose. Have the same model (but different physical shapes and mounting points).

That being said I have not heard of the formula you mentioned so I can't comment towards it. Your insurance company would be the would I would verify will cover you

 

[harryS]

Same concerns here. I used to have a Grand Cherokee and later a Honda Pilot. I put on sturdy 2" hitches. I did the Jeep myself. Both had also substantial chassis points for attachment. Meanwhile, I think the hitch on my VW wagon uses the floor pan bolt for one point. Doesn't the actual tongue. if used for towing, sticks out about 6" past the hitch? So my actual weight is only a foot past that.

To mitigate my fears, I have straps from the roof rack around each bike wheel. If the rack snaps off, the straps will hold the bikes while sparks fly and rubber grinds off.

This is my swagman carrying maybe 90 pounds of bike and 2o pounds of locks/chains. The hitch was hitting the pavement when we pulled into gas stations. We went 2500 miles. I took off the seats for the trip home.
.

 

[opimax]

My bikes list at 62lbs each i checked the manual and cannot find the weight of the rack.

 

[Dewey]

We have a 2012 Mazda 3...We much prefer a hitch-type tray rack but are willing to consider other options that don't involve towing

Hi Mark, I used a trunk mounted bike rack on a hatchback and a sedan before I got my Forester with a Class 2 hitch. Air filled tires are quite heavy and if you took off the battery and front wheel the combined weight would be under the 70lb limit for the Saris Bones 2, which has an optional bike beam if you bought a step through frame. You'll easily stow two 26" wheels and two batteries inside your car. Lash the frames together/to the car with tie-down straps for peace of mind.

BTW good call on the Trek Lift +, where were you thinking of going to ride them?

 

[mrgold35]

I think going with the rack specs AND vehicles specs might come into play? You might be A-OK with just you and another person with 2 ebikes on the hitch only (little to no cargo). It might be more of an issue on a weekend get away with more passengers and/or more cargo in the cabin/trunk. You might be close or exceeding the Mazda total cargo recommendations while still being under the hitch specs.

I have two SUVs and as I increases the tow weight, I need to lower the number of passengers and/or cargo weight. You don't want the rear squat compressing the rear shocks lifting the front end too much because that can effect braking, handing, visibility, or bottoming out over dips/bumps.

Around town, I use my smaller SUV with 1500lbs of towing with my Saris rack for my Radrovers. I always switch to my larger SUV with 5000lbs of towing when heading out of town because I usually have more people or cargo for the longer trip adding to the total tow weight+rack+bikes.

 

[Mark23]

So let me see if I've got this, your bikes at 62 lbs each almost double your Saris rack's capacity of 60 lbs, which I guess speaks very highly of your Saris rack. But my issue is my class 1 hitch has a tongue weight limited to 200 lbs, or, in theory, 100 lbs with the rack extended to hold two bikes. The 100 lbs is not enough to support my rack and two bikes. In your situation, I take it your hitch, being a class 1 also (base on the 1.25" size), has the same or similar tongue weight limits. And your bikes weigh about 120 lbs and with your rack weighing I guess at least 20 lbs would total 140 lbs. Is that right? The other variable you didn't mention was how far your second bike is extended from the hitch tongue, but if it's close to 2 feet, we have similar scenarios. If this is what you're saying, then I take your point - you've never had a problem, which is good to know. Sounds like you might be taking a risk at least with your rack, so good luck with the rest of your journeys. I'm still inclined to be concerned about what the hitch manufacturer is saying about their own hitch ratings and am trying to find a solution within those specs. Thanks!

==============

My bikes list at 62lbs each i checked the manual and cannot find the weight of the rack.

I have a Saris rack rated to 60 lbs , 1 1/4 inch from Hidden hitch for 5 years. I carry 2 Stromers with fenders and racks , batteries removed, seat off on long trips , not for hour trips. No issues w/the hitch. Check for bolts on frame getting loose. Have the same model (but different physical shapes and mounting points).

That being said I have not heard of the formula you mentioned so I can't comment towards it. Your insurance company would be the would I would verify will cover you

 

[Mark23]

Thanks, those straps would seem to help with stability and at least keep the downward pressure to the weight of the rack and bikes without adding the additional force from all of them bouncing up and down. A Honda Pilot would probably solve my problems, but didn't want a new car and especially not one that big.
=========

Same concerns here. I used to have a Grand Cherokee and later a Honda Pilot. I put on sturdy 2" hitches. I did the Jeep myself. Both had also substantial chassis points for attachment. Meanwhile, I think the hitch on my VW wagon uses the floor pan bolt for one point. Doesn't the actual tongue. if used for towing, sticks out about 6" past the hitch? So my actual weight is only a foot past that.

To mitigate my fears, I have straps from the roof rack around each bike wheel. If the rack snaps off, the straps will hold the bikes while sparks fly and rubber grinds off.

This is my swagman carrying maybe 90 pounds of bike and 2o pounds of locks/chains. The hitch was hitting the pavement when we pulled into gas stations. We went 2500 miles. I took off the seats for the trip home.
.
View attachment 18052

 

[Mark23]

Thanks Dewey, funny, we just sold our Saris Bones 2 because we loved our Kuat tray rack and knew we would never go back to the anxiety we felt using the mounting racks. We love the ease of putting our bikes in the trays and locking them to the tray which is locked to the hitch. Our bikes without batteries are 39 pounds each. I don't know if the front wheels weigh 4 pounds each, but if they did, that would get us down to the 70 lb limit.

Thanks for the suggestion - we may have to go back to it, but we'd still have to learn how to put the front wheel back on the disk brake bikes - it's hard for us to thread that calliper needle with the disk, but they say practice helps.

I take no credit for the choice of the Trek Lift +, that was a strong recommendation from another member in response to an earlier post on what to buy. It was more than I wanted to spend, but if I can ever get them anywhere, I believe it will be worth it.

As for where to ride them - anywhere with the peddle assist! If you're in Atlanta and that's why you're asking, we like the Freedom Parkway Trail - hills aren't bad but a couple tire us out. Our neighborhood is extremely hilly, and just getting to the the Path Trail is too hard to be worth it.

Thanks!
===========

Hi Mark, I used a trunk mounted bike rack on a hatchback and a sedan before I got my Forester with a Class 2 hitch. Air filled tires are quite heavy and if you took off the battery and front wheel the combined weight would be under the 70lb limit for the Saris Bones 2, which has an optional bike beam if you bought a step through frame. You'll easily stow two 26" wheels and two batteries inside your car. Lash the frames together/to the car with tie-down straps for peace of mind.

BTW good call on the Trek Lift +, where were you thinking of going to ride them?

 

[Mark23]

I think going with the rack specs AND vehicles specs might come into play? You might be A-OK with just you and another person with 2 ebikes on the hitch only (little to no cargo). It might be more of an issue on a weekend get away with more passengers and/or more cargo in the cabin/trunk. You might be close or exceeding the Mazda total cargo recommendations while still being under the hitch specs.

I have two SUVs and as I increases the tow weight, I need to lower the number of passengers and/or cargo weight. You don't want the rear squat compressing the rear shocks lifting the front end too much because that can effect braking, handing, visibility, or bottoming out over dips/bumps.

Around town, I use my smaller SUV with 1500lbs of towing with my Saris rack for my Radrovers. I always switch to my larger SUV with 5000lbs of towing when heading out of town because I usually have more people or cargo for the longer trip adding to the total tow weight+rack+bikes.

 

[MikeDD]

To avoid your problem, I bought a small trailer. If you do not mind pulling a trailer, it is a lot simpler than a rack and not that much more expensive. The trailer was my logical solution because my wife needed an e-trike.

 

[Mark23]

Wow, cargo weight never occurred to me, but tongue weight of the car did, and it is the most limiting factor with the smaller SUVs I was looking at as a solution (see my updated post, the last paragraph). But that gives me something else I need to check. The two of us are only 270 pounds together, but with the bikes it's still only like 4 passengers plus luggage. But we don't really want to go back to a mounted rack or stuffing the bikes into the car (separated with a piece of plywood) like we used to.
Thanks, I think ;-).

BTW, if you're using a rack and have 1,500 lbs of towing, that translates to a tongue weight (10%) of 150 lbs, which according to the hitch folks is reduced to 75 lbs 2 feet out from the tongue - not a lot for a bike rack with 2 backs. I guess your Saris is mounted and if so, I don't know if the towing limit applies, but the cargo limit might.

===========
I think going with the rack specs AND vehicles specs might come into play? You might be A-OK with just you and another person with 2 ebikes on the hitch only (little to no cargo). It might be more of an issue on a weekend get away with more passengers and/or more cargo in the cabin/trunk. You might be close or exceeding the Mazda total cargo recommendations while still being under the hitch specs.

I have two SUVs and as I increases the tow weight, I need to lower the number of passengers and/or cargo weight. You don't want the rear squat compressing the rear shocks lifting the front end too much because that can effect braking, handing, visibility, or bottoming out over dips/bumps.

Around town, I use my smaller SUV with 1500lbs of towing with my Saris rack for my Radrovers. I always switch to my larger SUV with 5000lbs of towing when heading out of town because I usually have more people or cargo for the longer trip adding to the total tow weight+rack+bikes.

 

[Mark23]

Thanks, but a trailer is really problematic when parking and traveling around with the bikes, but I appreciate the suggestion. Also, even a trailer requires us to get a new (ie different) car since Mazda says "no towing" for the 2012 Mazda 3.

To avoid your problem, I bought a small trailer. If you do not mind pulling a trailer, it is a lot simpler than a rack and not that much more expensive. The trailer was my logical solution because my wife needed an e-trike.

 

[opimax]

I am sorry I didn't respond earlier I broke my ankle falling off my bike Saturday and just seeing this. My rack was rated at 60lbs per bike so I am very close to rated capacity, that didn't come through. I am not a fan of pushing past the limits and it seems I was doing that and then some!

Part of the weight rating includes the individual trays and latches and not total weight. Someone once argued they only carry 1 bike on a rack which could hold 2 so the bike could be twice as heavy but that exceeded manufacturers specs on the trays and such

 

[Mark23]

I am so sorry about your ankle, hope you are otherwise OK but I suspect not. Thanks for pointing out the potential tray and latch limits - I hadn't thought about that. But in my case, the rack supports 60 lbs per bike so I'm good there. It's the hitch and car that are my limiting factors. Hope you're better soon, Mark.

I am sorry I didn't respond earlier I broke my ankle falling off my bike Saturday and just seeing this. My rack was rated at 60lbs per bike so I am very close to rated capacity, that didn't come through. I am not a fan of pushing past the limits and it seems I was doing that and then some!

Part of the weight rating includes the individual trays and latches and not total weight. Someone once argued they only carry 1 bike on a rack which could hold 2 so the bike could be twice as heavy but that exceeded manufacturers specs on the trays and such

 

[mrgold35]

Have you checked into upgrading the suspension of the Mazda3? Maybe the shocks, struts, springs, and swaybar(s) are tuned for leisurely commuter duties. I upgraded my super handling awd (sh-awd) Acura RDX with Eibach stiffer lower springs, larger Progress rear stabilizer bar, thicker endlinks, and stiffer front/rear KYB struts and shocks (to go with my engine mods for extra hp/tq). My rear squat was reduced with the bike rack after the mods.

Wouldn't hurt to hit a Mazda3 forum to find out if other have the same issue OR not a big enough problem to worry about.

 

[Mark23]

Thanks, I tried a few body shops asking if anything could be done to either the car or hitch to increase the tongue weight limits for either, and I couldn't find anyone that would do it. One said an attempt at this could interfere with the crush zones on the frame rails. All the work you had done - was it to keep the car from sagging in the rear or to increase the tongue weight limit of the car?

I did hear back from the Hitch House who sold me the class 1 hitch for the Mazda 3. Regarding the fix of buying a Mazda CX-5 and my concern about Mazda saying the tongue weight limit is 200 lbs. he said that the manufacturer bases these limits on the factory or dealer installed hitch, and that you can increase that limit with an after-market hitch designed for he specific vehicle. So I could get a class 3 hitch for the Mazda CX-5 and it should work for me with its 600 lb tongue-weight limit. At two feet out (for the rack with 2 bikes), I'd still have 300 lbs which would be enough tolerance for the 133 lbs I'm dealing with.

Have you checked into upgrading the suspension of the Mazda3? Maybe the shocks, struts, springs, and swaybar(s) are tuned for leisurely commuter duties. I upgraded my super handling awd (sh-awd) Acura RDX with Eibach stiffer lower springs, larger Progress rear stabilizer bar, thicker endlinks, and stiffer front/rear KYB struts and shocks (to go with my engine mods for extra hp/tq). My rear squat was reduced with the bike rack after the mods.

Wouldn't hurt to hit a Mazda3 forum to find out if other have the same issue OR not a big enough problem to worry about.