My R&M Supercharger is the best I have ever ridden, with one exception - the Rohloff. It is down for the 2nd time. This time it cut short a solo tour on the Oregon coast after 1200 miles. After 2.5 months, the e-14 electronic controller arrived today, installed and did not resolve the issue. Identical error codes and issues. Shifts through 3 gears only and the gear it is in does not correspond with the gear displayed on the Kiox. Already missed second half of my spring tour, missed my summer tour and now concerned about the fall tour. Looking for a Supercharger with anything but a Rohloff while i try to resolve and sell the one with the unreliable Rohloff. First issue was a leak that was warrantied. Rohloff service in US is very difficult. Propel is doing a good job, but without the bike it is tough for them no matter how hard they try and even though they are clearly expert, competent and eager to help. Just posting to say "beware" of all the hype around Rohloff reliability. Since posting in related threads, I have now seen quite a few with similar experience. My guess is the YouTube videos with the exotic tours in exotic places are sponsored by Rohloff, because I'd have zero confidence in Rohloff anymore.
Multiple Rohloff issues on Supercharger
- Thread starter ZSoloTour
- Start date
Jeremy McCreary
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Carlsbad, CA
Real bummer about your missed tours. Drove US 101 from Tillamook, OR to Crescent City, CA earlier this summer — incomparable! The stretches right on the coast must be spectacular on a bike, but saw little bike infrastructure there.
Wish I could help. Please share photos of the part you got to ride.
Wish I could help. Please share photos of the part you got to ride.
dblhelix
Well-Known Member
Re: Rohloff reliability
Mechanical (non-E14) users tend to be satisfied with their Rohloff hub except for the chronic leaking some experience, even after using less oil, replacing seals etc, etc.
Having suffered both the leaking and E-14 problems (locked into 14, ugh, with incorrect gears displayed on Nyon) as well as damage to E14 shifter with the unit oddly positioned at 6 o'clock as a design choice., my conclusion was a bit different than yours. It's an integration problem.
The long waits are due to all of the chefs involved: authorized service, which is shorthand for manage the end user, Bosch, Rohloff, and nominally R&M if the end user/dealer makes contact hoping for assistance.
One Bosch service rep told me he purchased the E14 diagnostic kit with his own funds to have it in his service van. I don't remember the exact cutoff, but the shifter + cable is Rohloff's turf, while the rest of the cables + thumb control = Bosch, or something like that. This allowed him to completely diagnose instead of passing it off to Rohloff at a predetermined juncture.
The kit is just all the pieces, which you replace one-by-one to find the origin of your issue, except that in 2019-2021, end users were not permitted to buy the kit, AND it was prohibitively expensive. So, if you're not right by a Rohloff and Bosch service center, you're waiting for packages to arrive piecemeal.
A Bosch rep also told me that finding the gremlins can be very challenging. I appreciated the honesty. My dealer is expert in pretending I'm suffering a unique problem until I present evidence otherwise.
At the end of the day, I see this as an R&M issue. They don't design or manufacture the bits. They sell a product in which the bits are supposed to play together nicely, which is the basis of R&M's claim to innovation. The lack of centralization means these issues are only attended to on an ad hoc basis.
I was lucky. The E14 issue that broke the camel's back happened at home. I do think your decision to go for a SC Touring model is likely the right one. Good luck, and I thoroughly enjoyed your state 'cept for my service choices being limited to SF, SLC or Seattle at the time. Luckily, I didn't need service.
Mechanical (non-E14) users tend to be satisfied with their Rohloff hub except for the chronic leaking some experience, even after using less oil, replacing seals etc, etc.
Having suffered both the leaking and E-14 problems (locked into 14, ugh, with incorrect gears displayed on Nyon) as well as damage to E14 shifter with the unit oddly positioned at 6 o'clock as a design choice., my conclusion was a bit different than yours. It's an integration problem.
The long waits are due to all of the chefs involved: authorized service, which is shorthand for manage the end user, Bosch, Rohloff, and nominally R&M if the end user/dealer makes contact hoping for assistance.
One Bosch service rep told me he purchased the E14 diagnostic kit with his own funds to have it in his service van. I don't remember the exact cutoff, but the shifter + cable is Rohloff's turf, while the rest of the cables + thumb control = Bosch, or something like that. This allowed him to completely diagnose instead of passing it off to Rohloff at a predetermined juncture.
The kit is just all the pieces, which you replace one-by-one to find the origin of your issue, except that in 2019-2021, end users were not permitted to buy the kit, AND it was prohibitively expensive. So, if you're not right by a Rohloff and Bosch service center, you're waiting for packages to arrive piecemeal.
A Bosch rep also told me that finding the gremlins can be very challenging. I appreciated the honesty. My dealer is expert in pretending I'm suffering a unique problem until I present evidence otherwise.
At the end of the day, I see this as an R&M issue. They don't design or manufacture the bits. They sell a product in which the bits are supposed to play together nicely, which is the basis of R&M's claim to innovation. The lack of centralization means these issues are only attended to on an ad hoc basis.
I was lucky. The E14 issue that broke the camel's back happened at home. I do think your decision to go for a SC Touring model is likely the right one. Good luck, and I thoroughly enjoyed your state 'cept for my service choices being limited to SF, SLC or Seattle at the time. Luckily, I didn't need service.
Mr. Coffee
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
Having been pretty happy with Rohloffs, I do have a couple of observations that might help or at least mitigate the agony a bit.
Almost all Rohloff hubs eventually start leaking. In particular if you encounter large temperature changes the hub will inevitably start leaking oil. Having it leak a little bit isn't a big deal, in the very worst case you might have to replace the hub oil every two or three months rather than once a year. On the other side of it, and really the worst-case scenario, some hubs were apparently defective and leaked a lot. On top of it if you overfill the hub during servicing you can compromise the seals and then it will leak a lot as well. A lot of bike shops that aren't very experienced with IGHs have a tendency to overfill the hub.
The E14 electronic shifting system is pretty much hopeless in my opinion. There is nothing wrong with mechanical shifting on a Rohloff and it works fine and it works fine basically forever. By using electronic shifting you are basically taking a near-perfect system and making it less reliable, sometimes much less reliable.
Almost all Rohloff hubs eventually start leaking. In particular if you encounter large temperature changes the hub will inevitably start leaking oil. Having it leak a little bit isn't a big deal, in the very worst case you might have to replace the hub oil every two or three months rather than once a year. On the other side of it, and really the worst-case scenario, some hubs were apparently defective and leaked a lot. On top of it if you overfill the hub during servicing you can compromise the seals and then it will leak a lot as well. A lot of bike shops that aren't very experienced with IGHs have a tendency to overfill the hub.
The E14 electronic shifting system is pretty much hopeless in my opinion. There is nothing wrong with mechanical shifting on a Rohloff and it works fine and it works fine basically forever. By using electronic shifting you are basically taking a near-perfect system and making it less reliable, sometimes much less reliable.
Thank you Mr. Coffee. I'll be switching to mechanical so it is running, only to be able to sell. I'll buy a somewhat inferior bike that at least can be fixed mid tour. Probably giving up on e-bike touring and just use it for local or very short 1-5 night rides.
dblhelix
Well-Known Member
:Really, there are only two issues with the leaking. 1) oil on the brake rotors 2) $10k+ ebikes often get kept indoors. In the olden days, a little leaking in the garage was not much different from fluids released from cars, lawnmowers, etc.
I agree and don't care at all about oil in the garage or parts of the house where i keep it between rides in Montana winters. But still should not leak and is indicative of quality. Leaks tend to get worse, not better. Have recommend Reise & Muller to 11 friends, 9 purchased. No more. I loved it for a while, but done. Why would I struggle with it and take the risk when I rode traditional shift systems for 50 years. Progress is great, but not if it does not work reliably and cannot be fixed.
Mr. Coffee
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
Nearly all internal hub gearboxes for bikes leak a bit of oil.
Sturmey-Archer 3 speed hub leaks oil - Bike Forums
Bicycle Mechanics - Sturmey-Archer 3 speed hub leaks oil - Ok, I've fixed everything else on this old pair of his & her Raleigh Essex 3 speeds. Sholuld I attempt repair on this old hub? I put TriFlow in the hub yesterday, for probably it's first lubrication in it's 35 year life, and it started...
www.bikeforums.net
Tom@WashDC
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Loudoun County, VA.
I did a deep dive on Rohloff before I installed the Rohloff on my eMTB. Searched many a forums and determined that the electronic shift version is plagued with problems. Many unhappy owners. I installed the manual shift version and could not be happier. Riding vary hard for 14 months almost every day and not a single problem. Stay away from the electronic shifter.
Did you re-calibrate the Rohloff after the E14 controller was replaced?
I wouldn't be surprised if that was essential after the part replacement.
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A different mechanic now has the bike. recalibrated and says it works like it should. My bad, but 3 shops did not tell me, Rohloff did not tell me and i did not see it searching online, except Andrew at Propel, but it did not work with the old one. BTW Andrew was amazing throughout the process. Responsive, knowledgeable, concerned, took ownership, friendly, clear explanations, answer all questions. Unfortunately he could not actually do the repair as he is in NYC and I am Montana. Gal Alon in Bozeman, MT also has the knowledge, experience and drive to make things work. He is who got it going last week. Just opened his own repair only shop and his following has him already booked solid, but he always finds time to help those of us in emergency need. He is as good as it gets!
Kiwibru
Member
Wow, a very different perspective for sure. I have been riding my SC2 since it was new in 2020. Now at 6000 miles +. The only issue I have had in the four years is the rear wheel magnet needed re-positioning as I lost sensor pick up and the Kiox threw an error. Propel was great, sent me a replacement frame sensor and wire to install in the motor case. I have noticed some hub leaking, especially with very hot temperatures. I began a more proactive oil change schedule, once a year and flush the hub twice with a bit of kerosene, then the final rinse with the Rohloff cleaning oil, wait overnight, then exactly 20ml of new hub oil. One trick that really works is to park the bike with a small piece of 2X4 under the rear kick stand after a ride. This levels out the hub as the bike is nearly verticle, (but not enough to fall over) and this prevents oil leakage very nicely. Curious to know what the actual fix was for your problem?
The fix on my much more significant leak was a full hub replacement - warrantied by Roholoff. thanks for sharing how you have eliminated the leak. Regardless of the ultimate outcome, I will never buy another Rohloff or anything other than a traditional derailleur that I can fix or replace on the road. If the Bosch motor is the only thing I cannot fix, I can live with that as those seem to be more reliable than the Rohloff and other competitive systems.
The procedure I have used (out of curiosity, not need so far):
Rohloff Recalibration
- Hold gear shift + and - buttons down and turn system on.
- After audible shifting cycles have completed release + and – buttons.
- Press and hold the gear shift M button until the display turns off
It's on the shifter, underneath.
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