Mission Control App - Turbo Vado Solution Now Available

[Stefan Mikes]

My combined average speed on a loop with a strong breeze is 14-15 mph. I can't remember a windless day since October 30th, 2019 (that was the day I collected the Vado). I was 236 lbs at that time and am 212 lbs now. With the weather conditions, my weight, weak legs, riding style, assistance levels etc the battery range is up to 28 miles. (It will certainly increase when the real Spring comes). When a day with milder wind happens, I decrease the motor support, and I can expect up to 31.8 mile range. For all those reasons I bought the spare battery.

(Mild winds or no wind and slowing down make a dramatic effect on the range).

I would be very happy to have the TCD-W display but it is the "Dr. Strangelove or How I Learned To Love The BLOKS" situation The only real weak point of the BLOKS is it tends to hang sometimes but I know how to reset the display fast now. It is also nice the BLOKS is removable. Of course the TCD-W with BLEvo is a marvel but I can live without it.

Mission Control allows you to tune both the Assistance Level and Acceleration separately for each of the three PAS levels, which is great. "Turbo Vado Como Tune" only lets setting the acceleration globally. Still, my life has changed for better since the day I got the app. The app is kept in the Huawei Cloud as part of the phone backup. Now, I had to change the smartphone to a newer Huawei Honor and the app is still with me.

 

[rochrunner]

Mission Control allows you to tune both the Assistance Level and Acceleration separately for each of the three PAS levels, which is great. "Turbo Vado Como Tune" only lets setting the acceleration globally. Still, my life has changed for better since the day I got the app. The app is kept in the Huawei Cloud as part of the phone backup. Now, I had to change the smartphone to a newer Huawei Honor and the app is still with me.

Mission Control can adjust the Assistance Level and Peak Power. I think that there used to be an Acceleration adjustment, but that is not in the latest version.

Congrats on the weight loss -- keep it up.

 

[rochrunner]

Mission Control App is growing on me. Eco 20/25, Sport 60/60, Turbo 70/70. I went riding today against COVID-19 wearing a mask. 30 miles with average speed of 11 MPH. I used Eco and unassisted the entire time. Finished with 84% battery left. It felt good getting out after being pinned in for over a week. A lot of people riding and jogging with mask. A lot not. Hopefully we get back to normal soon.

"Average speed of 11mph." That's my problem: always been a speed junkie, and so far I'm always riding faster than I would on an unassisted bike. I also have the problem that if I'm starting to catch up to someone ahead of me, I automatically speed up to pass them ASAP. My best mileage will probably be when I start riding with my wife; even on her e-bike, 12-13mph is as fast as she feels comfortable with.

 

[Kam1936]

"Average speed of 11mph." That's my problem: always been a speed junkie, and so far I'm always riding faster than I would on an unassisted bike. I also have the problem that if I'm starting to catch up to someone ahead of me, I automatically speed up to pass them ASAP. My best mileage will probably be when I start riding with my wife; even on her e-bike, 12-13mph is as fast as she feels comfortable with.

All . Normally I average a couple mph faster. I like to ride unassisted as much as possible for the workout, hills, mild winds yesterday. I'm never in a hurry. I like looking at the scenery on the trails. The trails were crowded more due to COVID. Families, joggers, bikers, and people walking their dogs. A lot of people off work. Personally I think 13-14 mph is fast enough on the trails due to the amount of pedestrians. Riding the roads I cruise along at 15-20mph.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Mission Control can adjust the Assistance Level and Peak Power. I think that there used to be an Acceleration adjustment, but that is not in the latest version.

I'm sorry for making a mental shortcut. I believe the Peak Power translates to the bike's acceleration capability. I can be wrong.

I also have the problem that if I'm starting to catch up to someone ahead of me, I automatically speed up to pass them ASAP.

Whatever bike I have ever ridden, I always tried to get onto the maximum speed achievable at given conditions but have always been a weak rider. During the last "acoustic" years (before the legs' issues developed) I used to have the average speed around 9 mph. After I had the first serious crash on an e-bike, I avoid overtaking other cyclists, or I do it with the utmost care if I have to pass them.

I like to ride unassisted as much as possible for the workout, hills, mild winds yesterday. I'm never in a hurry. I like looking at the scenery on the trails.

What was making me unhappy with traditional bikes was the fact the scenery was changing too slow. So boring on our Mazovian plains! Now, I move too fast to get bored Besides, I am too weak to pedal unassisted. If I need a harder workout, I decrease the PAS % with the app.

 

[rochrunner]

I'm sorry for making a mental shortcut. I believe the Peak Power translates to the bike's acceleration capability. I can be wrong.

From the Vado user manual, which I think explains it very well. The Support setting has more effect on acceleration (but also affects range) and Peak Power mostly affects range.

SUPPORT: The Support mode sliders change how much assistance the motor provides in each mode, based on pedaling input. Generally, more Support provides faster acceleration and easier climbing at the expense of shorter range and greater chance of wheelspin. Less Support results in longer range, and more control in situations where traction is limited. For example, pedaling in Sport mode with Support set at 50% will require approximately double the effort to get the same motor assist as compared to pedaling in Turbo mode with Support set at 100%.

PEAK POWER: In addition to the Support mode setting, there is also the Peak Power setting. This refers to the maximum power output by the motor for each Support mode. This can be set at up to 100% for all Support modes. If Peak Power is set to 100% for all Support modes, the harder you pedal the more assist you get in each Support mode. For example, if a Support mode is set at 35% with Peak Power set at 100%, you can still achieve 100% Peak Power by pedaling with more effort and high rider torque. If Peak Power is set at less than 100%, you will limit the amount of current the motor provides, creating an artificial ceiling for the current. Setting Eco mode with an artificial Peak Power ceiling will improve range, as well as provide greater differentiation between Support modes.

Specialized recommends experimenting with the power settings that work best for your riding style and conditions.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Interesting! I still could not find out how the Peak Power really affected the bike's performance though.

 

[rochrunner]

Interesting! I still could not find out how the Peak Power really affected the bike's performance though.

I think that's fairly straightforward. If you have it set to 50 on a 250W bike, you're only going to get a maximum 125W power from the motor.

 

[Marcela]

Using 30/40 for a 95Nm motor. Explain the support and peak power. I find it confusing how the definitions can be interpreted. Thanks.

SUPPORT: The Support mode sliders change how much assistance the motor provides in each mode, based on pedaling input.

PEAK POWER: This refers to the maximum power output by the motor for each Support mode.

 

[rochrunner]

When you pedal, the bike provides a power boost that is proportional to the force you're applying to the pedals. With an assistance setting of 30, the bike applies just 30% of the maximum additional power that it can apply for the given pedal input, cadence, etc.

The peak power puts a ceiling on the max power output of the motor. With a setting of 40, the max additional power will be 40% of 95, or 38Nm no matter how hard you are pedaling.

Another example is that with a setting of 50/100 vs 100/100, in both cases you can achieve the full output of the motor, but in the first case you will be pedaling twice as hard to get there!

There are some other variables involved, but this is the general idea.

 

[Marcela]

Okay, understand the PEAK POWER, which would be like a limiter or governor, or how much is available and nothing more.

On the SUPPORT, you are saying that the computer determines what my potential 100% output is, and at 30% of my potential it provides the 38Nm?

Or for SUPPORT, the computer has installed a theoretical 100% potential for all riders, and at 30% of that it provides the 38 Nm?

Another example, I can program 30/100, and at 30% of whatever potential of rider or programmed input, the assist provides 95Nm?

Or is it cadence based? At certain percentage of a cadence it starts support?

 

[rochrunner]

Okay, understand the PEAK POWER, which would be like a limiter or governor, or how much is available and nothing more.

On the SUPPORT, you are saying that the computer determines what my potential 100% output is, and at 30% of my potential it provides the 38Nm?

Or for SUPPORT, the computer has installed a theoretical 100% potential for all riders, and at 30% of that it provides the 38 Nm?

Another example, I can program 30/100, and at 30% of whatever potential of rider or programmed input, the assist provides 95Nm?

Or is it cadence based? At certain percentage of a cadence it starts support?

I think it's simpler than what you are describing. The bike provides a boost that is proportional to the rider's power, and Support determines how much of a proportion that is. For example, assume that 100% support means that the bike adds exactly the power that the rider is pedaling with.

For the case of 100/100, if you are pedaling at 20Nm, the motor adds 20Nm for a total of 40Nm output. At 50Nm, you get 50+50=100Nm, at 95Nm pedaling it is 190Nm total. Since the motor is at its maximum, pedaling harder will not add anything additional: pedal at 120Nm gets you 120+95=215Nm, etc.

With a Support of 30, the motor adds 30% of what it does at 100% support. For the above example, 20Nm gets you 20+6=26Nm total, 50Nm is 50+15=65Nm, 95Nm yields 95+29=124Nm, and 120Nm is 120+36=156Nm. If your Peak is set at 40 for a max motor output of 38Nm, you would have to pedal at 127Nm to get 127+38=165Nm. Again, you could keep pedaling harder, but the motor assistance is topped out at 38Nm. Notice that you are pedaling a lot harder and still not getting the total power output as with Support = 100.

Again, the values are based on an assumption, but no matter what the default power delivery curve is, the general idea should hold. Cadence also plays into this, but again that shouldn't matter from one setting to another.

 

[Marcela]

Thanks. That helps to explain what I was trying to wrap my head around. I think the cadence also plays into it somewhat as you say, I was out doing a little experimentation with it.

So 95 Nm equates to 70 ft. lbs., compared to say a Bosch system which advertises 400% assist, would that be down on power compared to the Bosch system?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I think it's simpler than what you are describing. The bike provides a boost that is proportional to the rider's power, and Support determines how much of a proportion that is. For example, assume that 100% support means that the bike adds exactly the power that the rider is pedaling with.

That cannot be right, Roch. The maximum power of the, say, 1.2s motor is 520 W. My own input is around 84 W. I think the 100% means 520 W. Again, I could be wrong.

Now, I cannot agree on the torque either. What is controlled by the Vado system is the power, not the torque.

 

[rochrunner]

That cannot be right, Roch. The maximum power of the, say, 1.2s motor is 520 W. My own input is around 84 W. I think the 100% means 520 W. Again, I could be wrong.

Now, I cannot agree on the torque either. What is controlled by the Vado system is the power, not the torque.

Stefan, I was using a simplified example. Yes, the 100% means 100% of the motor power and my example only assumed what it did about the motor power matching the rider. Obviously there are some other multipliers in there. I guess by trying to keep it simple I made it more confusing.

Also, you're correct about the power-torque thing; I was trying to use the same units as the question was asking and didn't stop to think that newton-meters and watts are not the metric and imperial names for the same thing. And of course it's Power Peak -- not Torque Peak -- so I should have stuck with the watts and ft-lbs that I'm used to! My engineering degree was obtained back in the days when the metric system was just a rumor to us .

To me, this one sentence from the manual explains it as well as it needs to be:

For example, pedaling in Sport mode with Support set at 50% will require approximately double the effort to get the same motor assist as compared to pedaling in Turbo mode with Support set at 100%.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Good news is the Warsaw Specialized LBS are now capable -- after 5 months -- to offer replacing my BLOKS display with the TCD-W. I gladly hope the dream will finally come true.

 

[Kam1936]

Good news is the Warsaw Specialized LBS are now capable -- after 5 months -- to offer replacing my BLOKS display with the TCD-W. I gladly hope the dream will finally come true.

Good news. Happy for you!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I still have the free copy of BLEvo on my smartphone (which I got from Paolo for testing purposes). If it works with the replaced display, I'm going to pay Paolo for his good service!

 

[Kam1936]

I still have the free copy of BLEvo on my smartphone (which I got from Paolo for testing purposes). If it works with the replaced display, I'm going to pay Paolo for his good service!

It will be good to have another Vado user report their experiences with the app. I didn't get the app to derestrict. I'd like to get your input on battery capacity. Mine is pretty close to specs. 592 instead of 600 or 604. I think the missing 8 or 12 is unavailable to protect the battery from discharging completely. I don't know. Eager to see your findings.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I can only tell you now that the "Turbo Vado/Como Tune" reports the Health of my first battery as 97% and the of second one as 100%. Meaning the first battery can store 585 Wh and the other 604. Unluckily, the degraded Health might result from the weakest cell(s) in the whole battery. We have to live with that.

I can only guess you cannot de-restrict the bike because Specialized seem to have protected that parameter well in the Vado but no-one knows before an experiment is done.