Mid Drive Bike Suggestions
- Thread starter traderfjp
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AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Yes, I believe I have. I have spent quite a bit of time riding a Bafang Ultra powered '21 Rize RX Pro with a few mods, including 27.5x2.8 Schwalbe Super Moto X tires and the Frey "Smooth" programming. There are also 4 hub driven bikes in our fleet, including a very modified '17 RAD City that's been repowered with a 1000w MAC 12t geared hub using a 35 amp controller.
I have written about the mid powered vs. hub powered differences extensively, but to sum it up, my experience is you can get on a hub drive and ride it in brain dead mode. Get on it, and either start pedaling or hit the throttle and go. The mid drive is going to require you to pay attention to what gear you are in, be constantly aware of when the bike will run more efficiently if it were in a different gear, and require you to shift it in a manner that's friendly to the chain and gear cluster - especially when under power. To further demonstrate that point, I can assure you that if you were to join me as a guest rider on one of my bikes, it would NOT be on the mid drive. It would be a hub driven bike. Decision which to put you on can also be made while brain dead......
I own, and frequently ride both types of power. Love them both for different reasons. -Al
Just a sugestion to anybody looking at the numbers they don't quite tell the story look deeper in to the whole setup.
PatriciaK
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Pacific Northwest and Piedmont Triad
I will say that AHicks is correct, based on my own experience, for exactly the reasons he stated.
With my mid drive, if I'm not geared down at the start of a big hill, there's a problem. It takes the motor longer than I'm comfortable with figuring out what the heck I've gone and done and adjust to that, so I lose significant momentum. With my hub drive, I knock up the PAS or hit the throttle and the response is instant. Same with starting from a dead stop. I better remember to gear down, or it's a slow start with the mid drive. With the hub, again, kick up the PAS or hit the throttle, and go. I like both my bikes, but the hub drive is definitely "easier" in the sense that I don't need to be thinking and anticipating like I do with my mid drive.
I've said on another occasion that if my hub drive had been available when I first purchased and IF I were confident it would have handled the hills as well as my mid drive does (actually, it probably would!) I would have probably purchased the hub instead.
With my mid drive, if I'm not geared down at the start of a big hill, there's a problem. It takes the motor longer than I'm comfortable with figuring out what the heck I've gone and done and adjust to that, so I lose significant momentum. With my hub drive, I knock up the PAS or hit the throttle and the response is instant. Same with starting from a dead stop. I better remember to gear down, or it's a slow start with the mid drive. With the hub, again, kick up the PAS or hit the throttle, and go. I like both my bikes, but the hub drive is definitely "easier" in the sense that I don't need to be thinking and anticipating like I do with my mid drive.
I've said on another occasion that if my hub drive had been available when I first purchased and IF I were confident it would have handled the hills as well as my mid drive does (actually, it probably would!) I would have probably purchased the hub instead.
Depends on: (1) the hill. How steep? How much climb? (2) the drive systems. How much torque for the mid? the hub? What brand drive system? These things all matter.
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Think about it. That stuff does NOT matter when comparing how easy the 2 types are to ride. That is what we're talking about, right? This size of the hill, the size of the motor, and the brand make absolutely NO DIFFERENCE in the fact that the hub will be easier to drive, and the mid requiring the rider to pay attention to the gear the bike is in, and the fact it will require more finesse to shift to be ridden properly.
Trail riding or streets mostly?
Do you want any level of workout or more throttle-driven?
Must have a throttle or not?
Why those specific wattage/torque #s? They pretty much say - Bafang powered mid drive if they are absolutes for whatever reason.
Luna has $200 of for super bowl weekend on the X2 with an M600, with an upgraded controller option available. Full suspension mountain bike - no racks, no kickstand but a great bike especially for the $ - depending on your specific needs/desires.
Eunorau, Bolton, Rize, Biktrix have various Ultra motor offerings. As mentioned if buying an Ultra powered bike, you may want to see if can get a UART motor - Eunorau claimed they were shipping UART Ultra bikes but worth confirming. M620/Ultras and M600 are torque sensing, rest of Bafang minds are cadence sensing.
John from Connecticut
Well-Known Member
I agree with Rich C. I live in central CT, 75 years old ride, have two Trek Bosch Powered mid drives and love them. I exclusively ride my
Trek Powerfly7 MTB on Rail Trails ( no single track ) and some road. The bike will climb a brick wall. Nothing stops it ! The Bosch
Mid Drive is 500 Watts / 65 nm of torque.
John
ElevenAD
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Ringoes New Jersey
My old Biktrix uses the BBSHD and its a fantastic motor imo, im not sure if Biktrix still use them?
If you mean the mid will make the hill if you shift right as long as you have traction and the hub might not you are correct. no wait that's not right the hub just need more power. Ok let's play nice the truth is mid's as a genral rule are beter for climbing but that's not alway's the case and shifting isn't that hard .
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Tell that to a rookie that's not used to shifting? I can tell you with a certain degree of certainty that if you ride next to somebody that's never been on a bike that needed to be shifted, the first few miles are going to be distracting if you own that bike, or are responsible for the maintenance.
I agree shifting isn't hard. Generally my shifts are done with very little thought - but it's something I've been doing just about forever.
Using a clutch on a manually shifted car or truck isn't hard either - unless you've never done it before...... That's my point. I'm thinking raw green rookie. -Al
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
I've had at least a dozen support calls regarding fried BBS01 and BBS02 where the builder was not an experienced rider. Those failures were Clearly a result of not understanding how important properly choosing gears can be.
PatriciaK
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Pacific Northwest and Piedmont Triad
I've been riding bikes since I was 7 years old, and geared bikes since I was about 19 (let's just say for several decades 
). I'm an experienced rider. I understand the importance of proper gearing. And, I STILL get it wrong sometimes in unfamiliar terrain situations and/or not paying enough attention when coming to a full stop or large hill. It happens. My experience is, my hub drive bike is more forgiving and quicker to be able to adjust than my mid drive. And that's all I'm going to say about that 
.
). I'm an experienced rider. I understand the importance of proper gearing. And, I STILL get it wrong sometimes in unfamiliar terrain situations and/or not paying enough attention when coming to a full stop or large hill. It happens. My experience is, my hub drive bike is more forgiving and quicker to be able to adjust than my mid drive. And that's all I'm going to say about that .depend on the truck or car I driven a few trucks that were pretty trick and sports car that shift like butter. yes one might not want to teach on their best bike but it's not even as hard as a nice shifting sports car. I guess my point is even as a rookie it not going to take that long to learn to shift to a useable level.Tell that to a rookie that's not used to shifting? I can tell you with a certain degree of certainty that if you ride next to somebody that's never been on a bike that needed to be shifted, the first few miles are going to be distracting if you own that bike, or are responsible for the maintenance.
I agree shifting isn't hard. Generally my shifts are done with very little thought - but it's something I've been doing just about forever.
Using a clutch on a manually shifted car or truck isn't hard either - unless you've never done it before...... That's my point. I'm thinking raw green rookie. -Al
Not sure if you ended up figuring out which way to go, but I have an Ultra and have used a BBS02 and BBSHD. I love the Ultra on my fat bike because there's really nowhere I can't take it. It is a hugely overbuilt tank. It'll get me up a steep rocky trail with no issues if I turn the assist up enough. The only time I end up walking it is if the hill section is so steep and rocky or steep enough with loose stuff that the wheel spins or I'm concerned one wrong move is going to result in the bike tossing me somewhere I don't want to end up.
The downside is it's somewhat noisy, at least compared to other mid drives that do not have metal gears and uses more power than some of the other motors. It also uses more juice than the BBSxx motors, it seems (makes sense, the motor is physically much bigger). If you're not going offroad or using it in a hilly, snowy area, you might find it overkill. It still wouldn't be a bad choice but you may be better off with a BBSxx that are also really well built, but a lot quieter and a bit easier on the battery. I also found they are pretty smooth riding, even though they don't have a torque sensor. My .02.
Oh and to echo AHicks, hubs definitely have their place. I love my hub drive if it's not too hilly and I don't need tons of torque. As much as I also love the Ultra bike, I'm going to stick with the hub drive for a lot of summer road riding. Definitely brain dead mode, as AHicks says, works for it... it's just more relaxed riding than a mid-drive, I feel. Well if you don't get a flat in that rear wheel... then the stress level surges!
The downside is it's somewhat noisy, at least compared to other mid drives that do not have metal gears and uses more power than some of the other motors. It also uses more juice than the BBSxx motors, it seems (makes sense, the motor is physically much bigger). If you're not going offroad or using it in a hilly, snowy area, you might find it overkill. It still wouldn't be a bad choice but you may be better off with a BBSxx that are also really well built, but a lot quieter and a bit easier on the battery. I also found they are pretty smooth riding, even though they don't have a torque sensor. My .02.
Oh and to echo AHicks, hubs definitely have their place. I love my hub drive if it's not too hilly and I don't need tons of torque. As much as I also love the Ultra bike, I'm going to stick with the hub drive for a lot of summer road riding. Definitely brain dead mode, as AHicks says, works for it... it's just more relaxed riding than a mid-drive, I feel. Well if you don't get a flat in that rear wheel... then the stress level surges!
Oh - and if you're comfortable with it, are willing to do some research, and don't mind waiting 2+ months, just buy direct from a reputable manufacturer on Alibaba. You'll save half the price and often be able to customize the bike if you wanted to. Besides customizing nearly every component, the place I purchased from literally sent me the cad drawing of the frame and asked if I wanted to change anything. Nearly all the ebikes out there come from china anyways. May as well cut out the middleman is the way I see it Support may be a little flakey but if you are at all comfortable figuring out how to do things to bikes using YouTube, the cost savings is worth it, I think.
Support may be a little flakey but if you are at all comfortable figuring out how to do things to bikes using YouTube, the cost savings is worth it, I think.
JRA
Well-Known Member
@jkvt "The downside is it's somewhat noisy,"
Bust it in half and remove the little bit of grease from the factory, if you haven't already or whatever grease you have in there, and replace it with Corn Head grease, a John Deere product that comes in a cartridge. It does alot to quiet the motor down. I've done it to two motors now and it works. Doesn't take alot about two teaspoons to do the trick.
Bust it in half and remove the little bit of grease from the factory, if you haven't already or whatever grease you have in there, and replace it with Corn Head grease, a John Deere product that comes in a cartridge. It does alot to quiet the motor down. I've done it to two motors now and it works. Doesn't take alot about two teaspoons to do the trick.
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