Medeo t10+ or Dost Kope

[Erdbeeren]

I ditched my car a few months ago and have been using a Trek hybrid as my primary mode of transportation. It's been going okay, but my daily commute, while only a little over 2 miles each way, is quite hilly. Additionally, I'm contemplating a move farther from my place of employment (5-10 miles) that would necessitate an upgrade.

I've done quite a bit of research and narrowed it down to either a Gazelle Medeo t10+ (it doesn't appear the Ultimate offers much more for the extra $500) or a Dost Kope. Each one I think has its own strengths and weaknesses with the biggest difference being in the drive system.

I wanted to get some thoughts/opinions on these options or if anyone has additional suggestions that might be comparable.

Thanks!

 

[evolvable]

I think the Medeo is the better bike in almost every way, isn’t it? Ive heard some people argue that the kopes motor has more power overall, but most still seem to favor the more modern Bosch motor that the medeo offers (that is beyond my level of expertise). The medeo also offers both cadence and torque pedal assist, whereas dost bikes currently only offer cadence sensing (I read that their next bike, Fate, will offer both). Finally, less importantly, the medeos wires are bundled up and hidden a lot better than the kope.

The kope offers a throttle though, so if that is important to you, then maybe the kope is the way to go. I think it’s back rack also allows you to carries more weight. Finally, the kope is also hundreds of dollars cheaper.

I think the OHM quest is also a highly reviewed bike.

 

[Erdbeeren]

I think the Medeo is the better bike in almost every way, isn’t it? Ive heard some people argue that the kopes motor has more power overall, but most still seem to favor the more modern Bosch motor that the medeo offers (that is beyond my level of expertise). The medeo also offers both cadence and torque pedal assist, whereas dost bikes currently only offer cadence sensing (I read that their next bike, Fate, will offer both). Finally, less importantly, the medeos wires are bundled up and hidden a lot better than the kope.

The kope offers a throttle though, so if that is important to you, then maybe the kope is the way to go. I think it’s back rack also allows you to carries more weight. Finally, the kope is also hundreds of dollars cheaper.

I think the OHM quest is also a highly reviewed bike.

Thanks for the input! I had also considered the Quest, but I would prefer a class 3 bike.

 

[WattsUpDude]

Gazelle for sure. Bosch Performance Line; Class 3; 500Wh battery; 85Nm of torque. And maybe the biggest factor for enjoyment is that it has a torque sensor rather than just a basic cadence sensor that the Dost has.

 

[evolvable]

What makes the Bosch motor better? The Kope's motor is "Bafang BBS02, 750 watt, 120nm of torque".

As a non expert who hasn't experienced either motor, it seems like the Kope's engine seems stronger (and comes backed with a 2 year warranty). it's also a class 3. So why do people prefer the Bosch motor? Is it backed with a longer warranty? Is it quieter?

If anybody could explain, I'd appreciate it.

*edited*

 

[WattsUpDude]

What makes the Bosch motor better? From what I read, it's a "Bosch Performance Line Speed, 250 watt, 65nm of torque", whereas the Kope's motor is "Bafang BBS02, 750 watt, 120nm of torque".

As a non expert who hasn't experienced either motor, it seems like the Kope's engine seems stronger (and comes backed with a 2 year warranty). So why do people prefer the Bosch motor? Is it backed with a longer warranty? Is it quieter? If anybody could explain, I'd appreciate it.

The T10+ has a current generation Bosch motor which ups the torque to 85Nm. The BBS is definitely more powerful but when you actually compare them with a test ride, the BBS with a cadence sensor will just feel so much more unrefined as opposed to the torque sensor equipped Bosch motor. I think the simplest analogy I can think of is that you can liken the power delivery of a torque sensor equipped bike as a volume knob and a cadence sensor bike as an on/off switch. A torque sensor almost reads your mind and multiplies the effort that you are putting into the pedals. A cadence sensor will simply read that you are spinning the cranks and will send power according to the assist level and will not sense how hard you are pedaling.

 

[evolvable]

okay, perfect, thanks. So it comes down to cadence/torque sensing, rather than outright power. And your analogy really helps me understand that difference. Thank you.

 

[WattsUpDude]

okay, perfect, thanks. So it comes down to cadence/torque sensing, rather than outright power. And your analogy really helps me understand that difference. Thank you.

✌
I'd opt for a smooth and predictable ride over more power any time. If I wasn't planning on pedaling much, the BBS may be the better option. But I like to ride bikes and the experience of natural pedaling. The difference between the two are also very apparent when it comes to technical off road riding. If you're ascending up a hill, a torque sensor bike will give you the power you need immediately. A cadence sensor will only give you power when it reads the magnets passing over the sensor. That can be anywhere from a quarter or a full rotation of the cranks. That delay is enough to lose momentum.

 

[Buckeye Biker]

I can't really compare, as I haven't ridden the Dost (although I was seriously considering it), and ended up getting a Gazelle T10+ Ultimate rather than Medeo, but one thing I would ask is, is having a dealer/ repair shop important to you? The fact that there is a Gazelle dealer in my city kind of decided it for me. All the Gazelles are really nice, and you might have a decent chance to test ride some of them. I've been delighted with the T10+ so far, which is my second ebike.

 

[evolvable]

✌
I'd opt for a smooth and predictable ride over more power any time. If I wasn't planning on pedaling much, the BBS may be the better option. But I like to ride bikes and the experience of natural pedaling. The difference between the two are also very apparent when it comes to technical off road riding. If you're ascending up a hill, a torque sensor bike will give you the power you need immediately. A cadence sensor will only give you power when it reads the magnets passing over the sensor. That can be anywhere from a quarter or a full rotation of the cranks. That delay is enough to lose momentum.

Argh. Okay this is very useful. I was going to order an Aventon Level or DOST Kope in the next 24h, but now I'm thinking I should open my wallet a bit further and get a torque sensing Ebike.

The Gazelle Medeo/Ultimate does check off almost all my boxes (no throttle, but I'll survive), but it's even more expensive than the Kope, which was already pushing my wallet to it's limit.

Thanks for all the info. I'll continue my search.

 

[WattsUpDude]

Argh. Okay this is very useful. I was going to order an Aventon Level or DOST Kope in the next 24h, but now I'm thinking I should open my wallet a bit further and get a torque sensing Ebike.

The Gazelle Medeo/Ultimate does check off almost all my boxes (no throttle, but I'll survive), but it's even more expensive than the Kope, which was already pushing my wallet to it's limit.

Thanks for all the info. I'll continue my search.

My first ebike was the Aventon Pace 500 which shares the same motor and controller as the Level. It's a really well built bike and will cover a lot of ground very quickly. But I really, really couldn't stand that it does not like going slower than 11-12 MPH. I have to commute to San Francisco and being in a group of cyclists with a bike that just wants to launch forward at high speed was not fun.

If I was currently looking at inexpensive middrive bikes with torque sensors, the Yamaha Cross Core and the new REI Co-op CTY e2.2 would be on my short list. They both seem to be outstanding values.

 

[Buckeye Biker]

When I bought my first ebike, I thought throttle would be something I'd want to have, but to be honest with you, I literally never used it other than just testing it. It's a 'nice to have', I suppose, but I don't miss it. This stuff is all personal preference, of course.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Plus you will get a lot more miles out of the bosch powered bike full support for far longer. most likely a lighter bike too.

 

[evolvable]

I have a concern with the Ultimate t10+ (a concern that would hold even more for the Medeo t10+): I'm not concerned that it can handle steep hills, when the DOST presumably could due to it's stronger motor.

For example, check out this review at around the 25:15 mark:

It seems like Ultimate t10+ bike really struggled, which would be a complete bummer after spending $4000 (American) on it. Especially when I'm betting that the $2600 DOST could have handled that hill (of course, I can't prove that). I'm moving soon, and my daily commute will have a 101 meter increase in elevation, and it would be devastating if I purchased a $4000 bike that struggled with that.

I think I'm sold on getting a torque sensing bike at this point, but it's just a bummer that even high-end, expensive bikes like the Ultimate t10+ struggle with power. It really seems that almost all bikes come with some sacrifices.

edit: I think this post comes off as slightly too negative. The Ultimate t10+ is beautiful and is essentially exactly what I want in an Ebike. Just a bit disappointed with its ability to erase hills.

 

[WattsUpDude]

I don't know that I'd call that a struggle...I think that's just bike riding. We don't know what gear @troehrkasse was in and I'm not sure what power level he was using or the grade of the hill. Mid drive bikes will make for easier hill-climbing because they can leverage the gearing in the cassette but it doesn't necessarily mean that it'll will climb shorter hills faster than a powerful hub drive. All I know is that given a steep, sustained hill...a hub drive bike will run out of breath due to thermal protection or voltage sag while a reliable mid drive will keep chugging along. The Bosch on the T10+ has a higher torque figure than my Yamaha. And I'm absolutely confident that the assist from my Yamaha can get me up any San Francisco hill. It won't be effortless...but I also won't be a mess when I get to the top.

 

[Erdbeeren]

That does appear to be quite a steep hill, but other reviews of the Bosch Gen 4 speed seem to suggest it's a very capable hill climber. Especially I've read there was a software update that results in the increased torque to 85 nm.
One thing to consider with Dost is the stock setting they have with their motor. I've read that each level of pedal assist can be adjusted using an adapter cable, but Dost does have the motor cut out below top speed on each level of pedal assist. For example, on pedal assist 1 the motor will cut out around 7 mph. I'm more interested in being engaged while biking so I was hoping their setup would allow a percentage of output up to the overall max speed (28 mph) for each level (I.e 10% for PAS1, 20% for PAS2) but that's not the case. Again, these settings can be changed to this, but I'm willing to bet it would void the warranty. After learning this I'm convinced the additional money of the Medeo t10+ is well worth it.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I have done 20% grade on my bosch powered bike. its work though 16% I can keep my cadence up doing it.

 

[Deacon Blues]

With the Bosch motor power comes on after just a quarter revolution of the crank. That's not going to happen with the DOST with its cadence sensor.
As for hills, I find the gen 4 Bosch motor to have more than enough of power. The secret is to gear down and let the motor spin.

Before the virus hit I took a DOST bike out for a test ride. The bike does have a lot of power, but I stopped at the bottom of a short, steep hill and then tried to get going. Without a torque sensor it was really difficult.
My vote would be for the Bosch gen 4 motor.

 

[Buckeye Biker]

There is one long, pretty steep hill in my neighborhood, and the only time I really have to struggle getting over it on my T10+ is when I'm in much too high a gear, which happens occasionally. Otherwise, I never go higher than Tour mode. As always, the best way to decide on these things is to take a test ride, if possible.

 

[troehrkasse]

We don't know what gear @troehrkasse was in and I'm not sure what power level he was using or the grade of the hill.

Hey, thanks for the tag!

For this review - I was in first gear and highest power level, however the saddle was not set at maximum height for me so that really limited my ability to pedal effectively. I hadn't made sure that it was adjusted to a good height before setting out to film and didn't have a tool with me to adjust it out there. I was also holding the camera and thus pedaling with one hand, which makes a surprising difference!

And I gotta say, it really is an insanely steep hill. I've never ridden anything like it before or since (outside of MTB stuff).

In this review I tackle the same hill with the non-speed version of the Ultimate, which is a bit less powerful, but it was actually easier than on the T10+. I think this is due to having adjusted the saddle properly. Another factor was that on the T10, the steep hill was the first thing I did... whereas on the T10+, it was at the tail end of a day of riding and reviewing so I was pretty tired out by that point

Starting at about 22:30

Hope this helps @evolvable !