Maxxis Re-fuse tires

[steve mercier]

This is not a nonsense. Placing 38 mm tyres on a bike made for 47 mm:

• Makes the bike look silly
• Greatly reduces air volume important for ride cushioning
• Adversely affects speedometer (causing motor cut-off earlier), daily trip meter and odometer. Even if Bosch e-bikes can be adjusted re wheel circumference, the 47 - 38 gap is huge.

Even if some 2" tyres would fit the fenders of Kona Dew-E, they would reduce the wheel-to-fender clearance, making the space clogged with mud and pebbles soon.

AHA! So you are calling my beauty Ghost Square Trekking a silly looking bike. What an insult. It may take me some time to recover. But seriously at 38 mm the Marathons Plus are 1.5" tires and are the full 1.5" width . Unlike most tire makers Schwalbe does not undersize its tires. Stefan 2 of your 3 points are absurd.

 

[tomjasz]

I use this chart, When pushing the limit it is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT to be aware that low pressure can mean tire roll-off cornering. I Have a set of Alex rims that are out of specification running Maxxis Hookworm 26" 2.5".​

To ride them I ALWAYS confirm proper inflation. if religious about it I've never had a roll-off.

Note:​

The recommendations are based on our rim-tire compatibility tests with some of the most popular tires. This chart only serves as a general guide since bead design, inflation pressures, and other variables will affect the actual rim-tire compatibility. Please send the rim profile to the tire manufacturer to double-check.
We don’t suggest choosing the largest or smallest values of a size range. For example, with a range from 1.9” to 2.1”, 2.0” is an optimal option for most riders.
The chart is only applicable to Light Bicycle rims with a unique rim-tire interface. If you use rims of other brands, please send a rim profile to the tire maker for recommendations.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

AHA! So you are calling my beauty Ghost Square Trekking a silly looking bike. What an insult. It may take me some time to recover. But seriously at 38 mm the Marathons Plus are 1.5" tires and are the full 1.5" width . Unlike most tire makers Schwalbe does not undersize its tires. Stefan 2 of your 3 points are absurd.

I have not seen your bike, Steve.
Instead of naming my points an absurd: discuss.

 

[tomjasz]

I have not seen your bike, Steve.
Instead of naming my points an absurd: discuss.

So many of your points are absurd it's almost a book.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Can you write a post without insulting Tom?

 

[tomjasz]

Can you write a post without insulting Tom?

You’re histrionics are infamous here. You just insulted Steve.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

You just insulted Steve.

By saying a bike running 38 mm tyres while it was designed for 47 mm ones would look silly?
I wonder why not run a 2.8" tyre MTB on 25 mm road tyres then.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Pathfinders

Needless to say Pathfinder Pro 2Bliss. Regular Pathfinders are not that good!

 

[steve mercier]

I have not seen your bike, Steve.
Instead of naming my points an absurd: discuss.

I have not seen your bike, Steve.
Instead of naming my points an absurd: discuss.

Stefan of your three points only the second one has any merit and I think you know that.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Stefan of your three points only the second one has any merit and I think you know that.

So tell me the difference in the wheel circumference for 38-584 and 47-584 tyres. Over the distance of 100 km.

 

[steve mercier]

So tell me the difference in the wheel circumference for 38-584 and 47-584 tyres. Over the distance of 100 km.

So you do understand that the 38 and 47 refer to the width of the tires ...yes?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So you do understand that the 38 and 47 refer to the width of the tires ...yes?

And to the height of them, air volume inside them, and to the wheel circumference. 38 mm is not only the tyre width: it is also the approximate tyre height measured from the bead to the outer limit of the tread.

• For the 47-584 (27.5x1.75") tyre @Bikeknit has on her Kona Dew-E, the wheel circumference approximately is 2.111 m. The wheel circumference for the 38-584 (27.5x1.5") is 2.071 m. On a 100 km ride, the original wheel will rotate for 100,000 m / 2.11m = 47,371 revolutions. After replacing the 47 mm tyres with 38 mm ones, the bike will ride for 47,371 * 2.071 m = 98,105 m, giving the offset of 2 km on the daily trip meter (and odometer).
• With the narrower tyres, the bike computer will report speed higher than actual, making the motor cut-off earlier than it should. Kona Dew-E is a Shimano driven Class 1 e-bike, making the top speed lower than 20 mph (32 km/h).
• The air volume depends on the tyre cross-section area, which depends on the tyre width and height. And the volume depends on the square of the tyre width/height. The air volume of a 38 mm tyre is 38^2 / 47^2 = 0.65 of the volume of the 47 mm tyre.
• The same wheel equipped with 38 mm tyres will make the bike drop (be lower) by (47-38) * 2 = 18 mm compared to 47 mm tyres used. The pedal will be 1.8 cm closer to the ground.

How do you adjust for the wheel circumference on a Shimano e-bike Kona Dew-E actually is?
--------------------------
When the bike engineer makes a bike design (especially for a bike equipped with fenders), there are many considerations to be taken:

• What size of the wheel and tyre to choose to ensure proper bike geometry? (Everything related to height).
• What wheel/tyre size will ensure proper clearance to the frame?
• What wheel/tyre size will ensure proper clearance to the fender? As generally the wider/higher tyre is the better, the bike design comes with as big a tyre as would fit the frame/fenders but still with a proper clearance to the fender.
• What rim width should be used for a given tyre size? A rim too narrow or too wide will make the tyre adversely deform.

A bike with 50 mm (left) and 38 mm (right) tyres. The rim width is totally different, and the tyres come from two totally different cycling worlds. I also wonder how much the 38 mm tyre would deform if installed on the wider rim.

I used to ride my big Vado on 47 mm (instead of 50 mm) tyres for a longer while. Only 3 mm in the tyre size already looked a little weird.

 

[steve mercier]

And to the height of them, air volume inside them, and to the wheel circumference. 38 mm is not only the tyre width: it is also the approximate tyre height measured from the bead to the outer limit of the tread.

• For the 47-584 (27.5x1.75") tyre @Bikeknit has on her Kona Dew-E, the wheel circumference approximately is 2.111 m. The wheel circumference for the 38-584 (27.5x1.5") is 2.071 m. On a 100 km ride, the original wheel will rotate for 100,000 m / 2.11m = 47,371 revolutions. After replacing the 47 mm tyres with 38 mm ones, the bike will ride for 47,371 * 2.071 m = 98,105 m, giving the offset of 2 km on the daily trip meter (and odometer).
• With the narrower tyres, the bike computer will report speed higher than actual, making the motor cut-off earlier than it should. Kona Dew-E is a Shimano driven Class 1 e-bike, making the top speed lower than 20 mph (32 km/h).
• The air volume depends on the tyre cross-section area, which depends on the tyre width and height. And the volume depends on the square of the tyre width/height. The air volume of a 38 mm tyre is 38^2 / 47^2 = 0.65 of the volume of the 47 mm tyre.
• The same wheel equipped with 38 mm tyres will make the bike drop (be lower) by (47-38) * 2 = 18 mm compared to 47 mm tyres used. The pedal will be 1.8 cm closer to the ground.

How do you adjust for the wheel circumference on a Shimano e-bike Kona Dew-E actually is?
--------------------------
When the bike engineer makes a bike design (especially for a bike equipped with fenders), there are many considerations to be taken:

• What size of the wheel and tyre to choose to ensure proper bike geometry? (Everything related to height).
• What wheel/tyre size will ensure proper clearance to the frame?
• What wheel/tyre size will ensure proper clearance to the fender? As generally the wider/higher tyre is the better, the bike design comes with as big a tyre as would fit the frame/fenders but still with a proper clearance to the fender.
• What rim width should be used for a given tyre size? A rim too narrow or too wide will make the tyre adversely deform.

View attachment 125772
A bike with 50 mm (left) and 38 mm (right) tyres. The rim width is totally different, and the tyres come from two totally different cycling worlds. I also wonder how much the 38 mm tyre would deform if installed on the wider rim.

I used to ride my big Vado on 47 mm (instead of 50 mm) tyres for a longer while. Only 3 mm in the tyre size already looked a little weird.

OMG see a shrink Stefan ....this is not rocket science!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

OMG see a shrink Stefan ....this is not rocket science!

This is not. Easy to understand then why the designed tyre size should not be replaced with anything else.
(Unless that's a fenderless traditional gravel bike where you can try anything from 38 to 50 mm provided the rims are properly selected).

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I could run on the cast rims on my road hauler, sorry

You could.
The thread is related to the question of @Bikeknit about possible replacement of the Maxxis Re-Fuse 47-584 tyres with another make/model. That size is pretty rare, so we should help the OP with finding a good replacement and not suggest tyres that are either unavailable or in totally wrong size.
Thank you.

 

[kmccune]

This is not. Easy to understand then why the designed tyre size should not be replaced with anything else.
(Unless that's a fenderless traditional gravel bike where you can try anything from 38 to 50 mm provided the rims are properly selected).

Stef you are a rocket scientist, I do not know the width of my cast rims they were supposed to have come with 2.5 wide tires rather than the 2.1 installed on them, looks like the stock tires are going to wear out fast,could you recommend a size or two up "Hookworm" to run on the 559 rims? (theres plenty of clearance)

 

[kmccune]

One other thing, what does the rim size 584 correspond to? I get confused by 28",700 ETC, finally getting a grip on the 27.5 . The first post you responded to was incomplete, this old "windows machine" is driving Me nuts, just to clear up the confusion.I am not trying to 'jack" the thread arounf here my go to bikeshop is(ugh!) you guessed it Wal-Mart.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

One other thing, what does the rim size 584 correspond to?

The ETRTO rim size of 584 (mm) refers to 27.5" or 650b size. All mean the same. The beauty of ETRTO system it resolves any confusion as to the actual rim size. For instance the 47-584 means:

• 584 mm rim diameter, and the tyre which is 47 mm wide (and approximately it is the "height" of the tyre);
• 27.5 x 1.75";
• 650b x 47.

All of them are the same.

There is, for example, some confusion about the difference between 28" and 29" tyres. ETRTO perfectly sorts it out: both rims are 622 mm in diameter but 28" wheels accept tyres up to 47 mm (47-622), and 29" wheels are also 622 mm but take wider tyres -- from 2" up -- (e.g., 50-622). It is because wider tyres also make higher wheels.

 

[kmccune]

The ETRTO rim size of 584 (mm) refers to 27.5" or 650b size. All mean the same. The beauty of ETRTO system it resolves any confusion as to the actual rim size. For instance the 47-584 means:

• 584 mm rim diameter, and the tyre which is 47 mm wide (and approximately it is the "height" of the tyre);
• 27.5 x 1.75";
• 650b x 47.

All of them are the same.

There is, for example, some confusion about the difference between 28" and 29" tyres. ETRTO perfectly sorts it out: both rims are 622 mm in diameter but 28" wheels accept tyres up to 47 mm (47-622), and 29" wheels are also 622 mm but take wider tyres -- from 2" up -- (e.g., 50-622). It is because wider tyres also make higher wheels.

Thank you.

 

[StuartKuz]

I bet you a dozen doughnuts the 2" will fit.

Why a joke? That is nonsense. I am running those exact 38mm tires on my Ghost bike now which came with 47 mm. I LOVE THEM.

So has anyone actually put 2" tires of any brand on the DEW-E DL? or 1.95" even? Do the fenders get in the way?