Looking to build on a budget ......

[MattA]

Hi all,

I'm in the SE US -- mostly flat country with tons of dirt roads and pastures. I have an *initial* budget of 2K and would like to build a stepover bike with the following:

1) Motobecane base from BikesDirect

Maybe Motobecane NEW TAZ2.5 Sport EAGLE 29er
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/plus-boost-bikes/taz2p5-sport-29er-275-bikes.htm

Maybe Motobecane NEW TAZ3 Trail 29er PLUS
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/plus-boost-bikes/taz3-trail-29er-plus-bikes.htm

Maybe something else would be better?


2) 29" tires
3) BaFang 750 mid drive
4) Gates belt
5) Enviolo cvt
6) 52V battery, fenders, lights, rear rack, etc

Thinking to ride the bike stock until all parts are bought for conversion which could take months. Looking for decent performance on dirt/paved roads point A to B and maybe some lightweight recreational riding.

Sure would appreciate any recommendations, tips and pointers you can offer.

(BTW, I'm also keeping my eyes open in case I run up on a used Evelo Delta .......)

 

[AHicks]

I can share one thing. 29'ers are BIG bikes. I would not recommend one for anyone under 6' or so. 27.5" make a little more sense to me for that reason (I'm 6'1"), and still gives you a huge selection of tires to pick from.

 

[tomjasz]

Gates belt will be nearly impossible. Consider a bike with an IGH and BBSxx series motor.
The real issue is, you need a frame split to install a belt drive... A regular frame is not belt-drive compatible. It has to be modified, or belt-drive compatible from the factory.

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Thinking of adding a Bafang mid drive to your Belt Drive bike?

More and more customers have been asking about the feasibility of using a Bafang mid drive on their belt drive bike lately. So I have been doing a lot of research on this topic and will present my findings in the post. First let me point out that I am not a bike expert and since there are so...

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[m@Robertson]

Myself, I own a 26" mountain bike with a roughly 'medium' frame (BBSHD) and a 29er with a 'large' whose seat tube is I believe roughly comparable to a 20" traditional triangle (Cyc X1). What @AHicks says is dead on about 29ers. The wagon wheels are great for being an unstoppable juggernaut, but there is a price to pay, and on a bike that is offroad, that often means a nutcracker when the inevitable higher standover coupled to planting your feet unexpectedly happens. Whats hiding up at the top of my 33 inseam are a lot happier on the 26er.

Although... The links you posted show frames all the way down to 15.5", and it looks like standover is going to be generous on that frame design.

On one of those 29ers, if you go hub motor and you are going to stick to that budget, you have issues. Those bikes are 12 spd and there is no hub motor with a cassette body that is meant to handle that. Best you can expect is a Shimano cassette body that is good for 9/10/11. 12 is a bridge too far. Also, it looks like the cheaper bike has dropouts, but the other one has thru axle. Thru axle can be done with only one hub motor on the market: A Grin All Axle and thats way out of your budget. Also if you do go with a solid axle hub motor, where you also need to chuck the 12s drivetrain and put in something that will fit the motor, you are probably looking at a low power motor in the 500w range. Unless you go super big with like a 2kw QS203.... but again your budget won't handle that.

You don't need a mid drive from the sound of your terrain. But you may need one to just make the installation something reasonably easy, because of your chosen bikes. And even then I would not want to do a 12s mid even if you go low power with a 750w BBS02.

I would recommend you sit back and take a hard look at what kind of bike you want to use for your project.

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Gates belt will be nearly impossible. Consider a bike with an IGH and BBSxx series motor.

I agree, although he did pick two bikes with a raised drive side chainstay that can actually take the belt. But on the flip side of the flip side, a beginner builder trying to make that work with an IGH is a recipe for tears and tantrums. Not a project I would want to take on as my first, thats for sure.

 

[tomjasz]

Doug and I worked on a chainring for Gates BBSxx conversions but it was a violation of their protected status. Maybe someone out there is now producing a chainring and parts. It's been done, but NOT on the cheap.

 

[PedalUma]

Please look at the donor bike and ride it before you order. I once had a bad experience from an online only seller. The Giant Momentum Vida is a simple bike with high quality. I love the lax geometry and long frame. It is also light. These are wide and comfy 650b aka 27.5 tires with mechanical discs. It rides like a Como. These come in a mid-step and low-step. You cannot use a Gates unless you hacksaw the right seat stay. Gates is out. I have a Nuvinci. They look great on paper, but weigh a ton and that weight is way out at one end of the bike, throwing off handling. Down tuning the motor and running a Nexus IGH could work. But for the same money I am loving these 11-50, or 11-47's from Box. That way you would not need to lace a hub either and you could run an affordable KMC e9 chain. I couldn't see the photo to pick up on the asymmetrical chain stay. The Veer belt puts you over budget.

 

[J.R.]

A lot of shorter riders ride small frame 29ers. I have a friend that's 5'-1" that rides one. I'm 6'-2" and I love the versatility of the 29er, especially for gravel and road. Fast rolling, the larger wheels soak up smaller bumps and larger obstacles they easily roll over. My bike is big, it is a large frame 29er, from end to end (outside edge of tires) it is about 6'-3", but frames and crank arms are available in many sizes. Pros, amateurs and rec riders of all sizes often choose a 29er.

Test riding the types of bikes anyone is considering is extremely important.

 

[m@Robertson]

Doug and I worked on a chainring for Gates BBSxx conversions but it was a violation of their protected status. Maybe someone out there is now producing a chainring and parts. It's been done, but NOT on the cheap.

oh yeah for sure just the belt is going to be $90. You can get a Gates belt on a BBSHD for sure and if so, probably a BBS02. You just need a 110 or 130 BCD adapter and then you can plant whatever you want on it. then all you have to worry about is ... chainline. Thats gonna be a party methinks.

 

[tomjasz]

chainline. Thats gonna be a party methinks.

understatement

 

[PedalUma]

Correction: That Giant has a simple and inexpensive to maintain twist-on 8-speed freewheel cluster. Gotta ride bikes! Before buying.

 

[PedalUma]

That crappy bike from an online only seller had flaking off paint with yellow primer under it. Up until then I thought that taxi yellow primer was just a joke from an old movie.

 

[m@Robertson]

I am loving these 11-50, or 11-47's from Box. That way you would not need to lace a hub either and you could run an affordable KMC e9 chain.

Just yesterday my latest Box 2 XL derailleur and Box 1 single ebike shifter showed up from Amazon. That super long cage really stands out and is the perfect recipe for a great big rear cluster. My 11-46 Microshift cluster is supposed to arrive today. I thought long and hard about a 9s Box 2 11-50, But the thing is $110 and the Microshift is $35 and all steel. And you know how I feel about the Box 3's bolting cogs to other cogs with no connection to a spider. I also took a real close look at the Box 1 derailleur. The 2 is the same as 1 except for sleeve bearings on the jockey wheels, and no adjustment on the clutch. Not enough to worry about and its got that extra 4 teeth capacity over the 3.

 

[PedalUma]

I just rode a 1x11-34 up a 15% grade. The thing is a twist on freewheel that costs $30. It was a house call to install a baby seat on a cargo bike. I just ordered the parts to build a XD Drive wheel and drivetrain. It is for one of those Sondors Cruisers that eats bearings that do not have replacements. Remember the lady in LA we helped? It is like that. The XD is a screw on free hub that can drop to 9-t. A new bearing kit is $20 and takes seven minutes to swap out.

 

[UnCamplicated]

Are you starting with a deralier bike and then installing a geared hub wheel set to go belt driven?

 

[MattA]

Are you starting with a deralier bike and then installing a geared hub wheel set to go belt driven?

Starting with a derailleur geared donor was the original plan. I've wanted a CVT for many years and thought adding a belt would be a natural progression. Advice from people way, way smarter than me tells me I need to study a lot more.

I do note that the Evelo Atlas has a CVT, belt drive and 750 mid-drive which kinda blows me away.

 

[EMGX]

Evelo Atlas weighs over 68 pounds with battery, you want to ride a bike that heavy? My ebikes weigh low 40s# and even that is annoyingly heavy. If I lived in a mostly flat area and wanted one of those nice motobecanes (I bought a motobecane Fantom Trail MTB several years ago, it was and still is a great bike) I'd prefer riding without a motor. Maybe ride for a while then decide if you really want or need to make what is probably a nice light bike into a heavy pig.
FWIW I've had two Nuvinci CVT hubs on bikes. One failed on a regular "acoustic" bike due to a loose axle resulting in a wobbly wheel which cannot be adjusted, the other, an N360, is working fine but they are heavy and probably not as efficient as a standard derailleur drive. I wouldn't bother with one except for use on a beach cruiser type bike.

 

[MattA]

Evelo Atlas weighs over 68 pounds with battery, you want to ride a bike that heavy? My ebikes weigh low 40s# and even that is annoyingly heavy. If I lived in a mostly flat area and wanted one of those nice motobecanes (I bought a motobecane Fantom Trail MTB several years ago, it was and still is a great bike) I'd prefer riding without a motor. Maybe ride for a while then decide if you really want or need to make what is probably a nice light bike into a heavy pig.
FWIW I've had two Nuvinci CVT hubs on bikes. One failed on a regular "acoustic" bike due to a loose axle resulting in a wobbly wheel which cannot be adjusted, the other, an N360, is working fine but they are heavy and probably not as efficient as a standard derailleur drive. I wouldn't bother with one except for use on a beach cruiser type bike.

Granted, that weight is very high. I wish I could build one half that weight but I think I need to study a whole lot more or buy one already built.

Might have to buy a prebuilt and live with the compromises as I don't want to be without transport if this economy explodes ......

 

[AHicks]

Granted, that weight is very high. I wish I could build one half that weight but I think I need to study a whole lot more or buy one already built.

Might have to buy a prebuilt and live with the compromises as I don't want to be without transport if this economy explodes ......

I've been riding an Atlas for a few weeks now, and it's a seriously nice bike. I bought it for the Bafang M600 w/throttle/belt/CVT combo as it's one of, if not the only way that combo can be purchased anywhere. It's advertised weight is 66.2 (58+8.2 ) for the single battery version, though I haven't weighed it. This really isn't that heavy for a cruiser type bike in this power category (120Nm Torque, 600W, 1,200W Peak). Everything has been done well, AND, it has some pretty great "cruiser" tires that come on it (Schwalbe Super Moto-X 27.5x2.8) that are going to be tough for anyone else to beat when it comes to ride and rolling resistance. Point being, no doubt it would be nice if it were 10lbs lighter, but being what it is (with belt/CVT), 66lbs isn't that bad.

 

[MattA]

I've been riding an Atlas for a few weeks now, and it's a seriously nice bike. I bought it for the Bafang M600 w/throttle/belt/CVT combo as it's one of, if not the only way that combo can be purchased anywhere. It's advertised weight is 66.2 (58+8.2 ) for the single battery version, though I haven't weighed it. This really isn't that heavy for a cruiser type bike in this power category (120Nm Torque, 600W, 1,200W Peak). Everything has been done well, AND, it has some pretty great "cruiser" tires that come on it (Schwalbe Super Moto-X 27.5x2.8) that are going to be tough for anyone else to beat when it comes to ride and rolling resistance. Point being, no doubt it would be nice if it were 10lbs lighter, but being what it is (with belt/CVT), 66lbs isn't that bad.

I would probably handle the weight better than some as I've had motorcycles all my life. In the past couple decades, most of those bikes were in the 500 to 600 pound range. I sure do drool every time I look at a picture of the Atlas. Maybe I should hunt down a hammer and go find all those piggy banks.....

 

[AHicks]

I would probably handle the weight better than some as I've had motorcycles all my life. In the past couple decades, most of those bikes were in the 500 to 600 pound range. I sure do drool every time I look at a picture of the Atlas. Maybe I should hunt down a hammer and go find all those piggy banks.....

Pretty much exactly what happened to me. Couldn't stop coming back and looking at it - for MONTHS! I have several other nice bikes, but nothing like this. I called and had a few questions quite a while ago (early this year). Mostly to do with the reputation the early original M600's had for being pretty noisey. They were honest about it and told me their original prototypes were actually pretty noisey, but then told me about some proof of concept/demo bikes they had received that were MUCH quieter. Then they notified me that the bikes had landed and the back orders were being filled. That did me in. My next call was an expensive one..... BTW, the new M600 motor is quiet. There is nothing there to complain about....

Lifetime of motorcycles here as well. My last were naked Honda Goldwings (old wings) and Standard Valkyries that I used to refurb. Concerned for my reflexes, I decided to quit before it was too late. These e-bikes eventually filled that big hole nicely..... -Al