Looking for a low maintenance commuter

[Asher]

No such thing as low maintenance when riding 7,000 to 8,000 miles a year. I assume that commute you list as 15 miles is one way, and 280 work days a year. You are going to need to replace brake pads and tires a couple of times at the minimum. Also considering your weight and the unlocked speed with possible throttle use, the battery will need to be charged at work, so two charges a day. Just something to consider when looking at a $5,000 bike, it might only last a year or year and a half. If you consider modifying your existing bike, understand it is not build for the kind of speeds you intend. So possible spoke failure plus frame and rim cracking from that kind of mileage with your weight and battery and motor weight all added together.

Why do you think a bike would only last a year or two?

I get 10 watts per mile, which would be 50 miles from 80% to 20% on a 19ah, 922 wh battery. But he weighs 50% more, and there are the hills. Might not need to charge at work, though running the bike from 80% to 50% (or 75% to 45%) would make the battery last longer than 80% to 25%. At 1,000 cycles from charging between 20 and 80 percent, that's ~90k miles before the battery reaches its end of life.

Plus, Juiced warranties the mechanical bits for 2 years and the frame for life, so a bike that lasts a year and a half sounds pretty implausible. If the motor breaks after that, you buy a new one for a couple hundred, not a big deal. Ravi has said hub motors last for 10k miles easily, and even up to 30-40k.

 

[Ken M]

Justin / Grin has great insight into the advantages and disadvantages of the different drive systems. Clearly he believes in direct drive hub motors as the superior solution for a human scale transportation / commuting ebike.

As for wear and tear long term, simplicity is a primary factor so just assess the complexity of a mid drive to geared hub motor to a direct drive hub motor. Also note that Bosch has a direct drive hub motor that promote to the escooter market which will require a higher millage life cycle vs an eBike. They know that it makes sense to use a direct drive hub motor at the higher speeds and distances a scooter will travel. Many eBikers are just turning off the synapses and being marketed by the flashy mid-drive claims of superiority in all applications.

 

[rich c]

Why do you think a bike would only last a year or two?

I get 10 watts per mile, which would be 50 miles from 80% to 20% on a 19ah, 922 wh battery. But he weighs 50% more, and there are the hills. Might not need to charge at work, though running the bike from 80% to 50% (or 75% to 45%) would make the battery last longer than 80% to 25%. At 1,000 cycles from charging between 20 and 80 percent, that's ~90k miles before the battery reaches its end of life.

Plus, Juiced warranties the mechanical bits for 2 years and the frame for life, so a bike that lasts a year and a half sounds pretty implausible. If the motor breaks after that, you buy a new one for a couple hundred, not a big deal. Ravi has said hub motors last for 10k miles easily, and even up to 30-40k

The original poster says he weighs 260-275 pounds, has knee injury, wants throttle, and wants to unlock the speed control. Sounds like a lot of hard throttle only riding to me. 275 pound rider is above a lot of weight limits on bikes, not including any extra gear weight. That's going to be hard on brakes and spokes. Despite what Ravi predicts, I had a geared hub motor fail at 1,682 miles. Gotta go with my personal experience, not a prediction.

 

[Diarmuid]

I don't really intend to use the throttle for more than getting off the line at a dead stop because of my left knee. I did test drive a R&M
Charger GT nuvinci HS earlier today and it's really nice. I've rented it to try it out on my commute next week and see how it performs. If the test rental works out well, I may end up with a Supercharger GX rohloff HS. We'll see.

 

[Diarmuid]

I rented a R&M Charger with the dual batteries and after using it for two days... I wasn't impressed. It seemed really under powered for what it costs. My wife's Radcity had more pep and it felt like it would maintain its speed more consistently. For now I'm leaning towards the Juiced CCS, a FLX Blade w/ touring package and city tires like the roadster has, or a DIY. Anyone have feedback on either or? Right now the XXL CCS is not available so I have time.

I've toyed with the idea of doing a full build but I haven't found a naked frame like the FLX Blade with the mid drive housing that will accept a Gates drive. Maybe R+E will be able to help me out.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Maybe R+E will be able to help me out.

They can certainly help you out. This is exactly what I was thinking when you initially posted but I thought you will do your homework anyway.

Few months ago, they designed a beautiful bike for someone in Seattle. You can get a Bafang Ultra motor from Lunacycle.
Also, some big battery like 52V and 25Ah.
R+E can fabricate a frame that will take a belt drive and Rolhoff. They did it for a chain version and here is a pic.

 

[WilliamT]

I thought the whole point of a non-chain system was lower maintenance? Do you have any data that you can share about the service life of a chain vs a belt? Here's what I've found so far: https://cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.com/2014/06/tech-talk-belt-vs-chain-drive.html

My experience is just from my owning my bike for 30 years and not having to replace the chain. I have to lube it but that's about it. I just assume a bike chain vs belt is no different than a car's timing chain vs belt. My dad's is an auto mechanic and belts have to get changed every few years or X number of miles regardless. A chain doesn't have to.

 

[Diarmuid]

They can certainly help you out. This is exactly what I was thinking when you initially posted but I thought you will do your homework anyway.

Few months ago, they designed a beautiful bike for someone in Seattle. You can get a Bafang Ultra motor from Lunacycle.
Also, some big battery like 52V and 25Ah.
R+E can fabricate a frame that will take a belt drive and Rolhoff. They did it for a chain version and here is a pic.

Apparently there are more pics that are unposted so here they are.

 

[ebikemom]

Mid-drives benefit from gear ratios at slow speeds but are negatively impacted at higher speeds. .

Since my needs were urban/suburban riding and commuting, hub drives were recommended to me. I bought a Pedego Interceptor. It works great for my 14 mile (each way) hilly commute, and urban/suburban recreational riding.

 

[Ken M]

What shocks me is how the industry has failed to embrace the benefits of direct drive hub motors for urban riding (most hub motors being utilized are the smaller, yet torquey, geared hub motors (I simply don't feel geared hub motors are the best choice because of reliability and maintenance concerns. Direct drive hub motors in the 500-1000W peak range preform very well at higher cruise speeds and should prove to be extremely reliable so long as they are kept from being run too hot (can be an issue with some bikes with throttles that don't have thermal protection of the motor).

 

[JoePah]

Your commute is 40 miles a day (that's over 2 hours riding), Seattle weather, and you have knee problems.

Do you really think a 40 mile daily commute will be your routine?

I've done the 20 mile commute 2 days a week in Flat florida and it is something that you have to be ready for. And it is a grind of sorts.

If you could charge at work almost any ebike that you are comforatable riding would work.. Suggest you stick to direct drive motors, something with a throttle, and a cruiser frame.

 

[Ken M]

I do a 25 mile round trip commute most days (even thru the winter) in Denver Colorado. There's a few fairly lengthy inclines/descents but maybe only 6 degree slopes so I typically can maintain speeds over 15mph. It's a challenge but I enjoy it. A new business location may increase the round trip to over 30 miles and I plan to continue the effort. At 57 years old doing this on a ebike is changing my life so it's worth it and I truly enjoy it. The worst experiences have been getting flats - something around 8 times this has occurred so make sure you are prepared for this and know how to deal with it or you'll be pushing the bikes home or to work as I have done a few times for miles.

40 miles a day will be rough but doable if you have a good eBike and can hopefully achieve an average speed over 20mph. I think anyone that supports the idea that 20mph top assist speed on a commute bike doesn't understand the time value of money. Riding an eBike can't double the time it takes to commute by car in urban areas - it must come close to matching the time so the savings and health benefits prevail in the decision process to make this change. Good luck. Keep us posted.

 

[TForan]

They can certainly help you out. This is exactly what I was thinking when you initially posted but I thought you will do your homework anyway.

Few months ago, they designed a beautiful bike for someone in Seattle. You can get a Bafang Ultra motor from Lunacycle.
Also, some big battery like 52V and 25Ah.
R+E can fabricate a frame that will take a belt drive and Rolhoff. They did it for a chain version and here is a pic.

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Price ? I'm guessing 10K.

 

[Dewey]

Price ? I'm guessing 10K.

Rodbikes price list a Rohloff frame for $2k plus the fork and additional customization to accommodate the motor call it $2500, Bafang Max motor and 52v 24ah battery from Luna $1,550, Rohloff speed hub $1,300, so maybe $6k with the other components and accessories?

 

[TForan]

Rodbikes price list a Rohloff frame for $2k plus the fork and additional customization to accommodate the motor call it $2500, Bafang Max motor and 52v 24ah battery from Luna $1,550, Rohloff speed hub $1,300, so maybe $6k with the other components and accessories?

$6000 is reasonable. Beautiful bike.

 

[Diarmuid]

It's $10,017.91 (I asked).

So far I've narrowed down my list to the three below, each with their own Pros (+) and Cons (-) but they seem like solid choices to me.

Full custom Rodriguez.

Karmic Bikes Korben S,

• $3k
• - No throttle
• + Belt drive
• Ok battery and motor
  
• + Great display
• + Light weight
• - No rack

SmartMotion Pacer GT

• - $4k
• + Throttle
• + Belt Drive
• Ok battery and motor
• + Great display
• + Great visibility at night

Juiced Bikes Cross Current S

• + $2.1k
• + Throttle
• - Chain drive
• + Pretty good motor
• + Excellent battery
• - Unknown performance climbing hills
• - Meh display

 

[TForan]

It's $10,017.91 (I asked).

Damnit, I missed it by $17.91 !

 

[Ryno]

It's $10,017.91 (I asked).

So far I've narrowed down my list to the three below, each with their own Pros (+) and Cons (-) but they seem like solid choices to me.

Full custom Rodriguez.

Karmic Bikes Korben S,

• $3k
• - No throttle
• + Belt drive
• Ok battery and motor
• + Great display
• + Light weight
• - No rack

SmartMotion Pacer GT

• - $4k
• + Throttle
• + Belt Drive
• Ok battery and motor
• + Great display
• + Great visibility at night

Juiced Bikes Cross Current S

• + $2.1k
• + Throttle
• - Chain drive
• + Pretty good motor
• + Excellent battery
• - Unknown performance climbing hills
• - Meh display

SmartMotion Pacer?
500w Dapu hub motor wound for torque, 17.5ah battery, included bodyfloat suspension post...around $3200.
I checked it out and sat on it, but didn't test ride cause of a time restraint, plus I already knew what I was gonna buy Pretty bitchin bike, and that burnt tangerine color is sweet!

 

[Chris Hammond]

Juiced Bikes Cross Current S

• + $2.1k
• + Throttle
• - Chain drive
• + Pretty good motor
• + Excellent battery
• - Unknown performance climbing hills
• - Meh display

I can give you some feedback on performance of the CCS. (I can't comment on the others). I use my CCS daily for my 30 mile one way commute. I live in Utah which is very hilly. The CCS does great on any paved hills you are likely to encounter. The steepest hill I occasionally ride has a maximum 16% grade, I can maintain about 11 mph up this hill on the CCS, and heat has never been a problem. (I do pedal pretty hard all the time I am riding).
My ride home has me riding around "Point of the Mountain". This is a not very steep climb 2-5% grades for ~ 3.5 miles, with no wind or tailwind I am generally travelling 26-30 mph up this hill. I have ridden it into a 20+ mph headwind several times as well and 100 degree ambient temps (not fun, but I love that I can do this as I'd be on the train in those conditions without the ebike). Average speed in those conditions is 16-24 mph, and the highest controller temp I have seen is 72C. Here's a link to my ride home today as an example: https://www.strava.com/activities/1714233839
I have put over 2000 miles on my CCS in the 10 weeks I have owned it. It's a great bike.
PS. I do recharge my battery at work, I only charge to 80% to extend longevity. The 19.2 Ah battery would manage your round trip commute, but I'd recommend recharging at work regardless. Good luck with whichever you choose.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Chris's comments as always are right on. I'd like to add, as far as hill-climbing on the CCS, it's more efficient at higher speeds. When I have a steep climb coming up, I ramp up the PAS and the speed so I'm doing >25 mph before hitting the incline. (I usually ride at 18-20 mph on the level.)