Looking for a low maintenance commuter

[Diarmuid]

Howdy,

I could use some help trying to identify a bike that would fit my requirements, but before that, here are some facts that helped shaped my requirements.

• Primarily will be used for commuting to and from work.
• My commute is 19.5 miles the easy way or 15.4 miles the more difficult way.
  • Here's what the 15.4 mile route looks like.
  • 
  • Here's what the 19.5 mile route looks like.
  • 
• I'm 6'6" and weigh between 260-275 lbs depending on a variety of factors.
• I have a left knee injury from a car accident some years back which is one of the reasons why I'm looking at a ebike.
• My commute routes are 99% dedicate bike paths.
• I'm in the Seattle area so the typical PNW weather needs to be factored in.
• I also ride a lot on private property (1.813 mi²) so something that can do above class 3 would be nice.
• My current bike is a 29er MTB that I put thinner city tires, fenders, and a rack.

With that in mind here's what I've been thinking about and could use some advice/review.

• Class 2 that can be unlocked or higher for use on the private property I can ride on.
• 750 Watt motor (WA legal limit)
• Lowest maintenance as possible which means not a chain driven bike.
  • Rohloff? Gates Carbon Belt? Pinion? Other?
• Disc brakes since it rains here.
• Trigger throttle.
• Fenders and rack a bonus.

Are there any bikes that don't use chains, has the potential to go fast, and can help someone my size climb hills? I could also consider retrofitting my existing bike with a kit like the EBO Clydesdale 2.0 kit.

 

[Nova Haibike]

here's what I've been thinking about and could use some advice/review.

• Class 2 that can be unlocked or higher for use on the private property I can ride on.
• 750 Watt motor (WA legal limit)
• Lowest maintenance as possible which means not a chain driven bike.
  • Rohloff? Gates Carbon Belt? Pinion?
• Disc brakes since it rains here.
• Trigger throttle.
• Fenders and rack a bonus.

Class 2 throttle bike and 750W says hub drive. Rohloff would be mid-drive, no throttle, 250-350W. I think there are very few e-bikes with Pinion and Gates. Here's one, Hilite Pinion, but I don't think it is a speed pedelec. The Riese & Müller Supercharger GX rohloff HS has everything but the throttle.

 

[Diarmuid]

Class 2 throttle bike and 750W says hub drive. Rohloff would be mid-drive, no throttle, 250-350W. I think there are very few e-bikes with Pinion and Gates. Here's one, Hilite Pinion, but I don't think it is a speed pedelec. The Riese & Müller Supercharger GX rohloff HS has everything but the throttle.

Can I even get the Hilite Pinion in the US? I know the R&M is easy enough to get.

 

[Asher]

I think you should give up on the no chain requirement.

I'd recommend looking at the Juiced CCS. Has the power, range, and is lower priced. But it will be a 2 month plus wait.

 

[Diarmuid]

I think you should give up on the no chain requirement.

I'd recommend looking at the Juiced CCS. Has the power, range, and is lower priced. But it will be a 2 month plus wait.

The CCS looks to be using off the shelf parts. I wonder if I can re-create it myself to retrofit my existing bike. Does anyone know the different relevant parts used on the CCS? I see it has a Bafang hub motor but i dont recognize the LCD Advanced Matrix Display, Thumb Throttle, Torque and Cadence Pedal Sensor.

 

[WilliamT]

I don't think a belt drive would be less maintenance than an chain. Over time, the rubber is going to dry up from the sun leading to cracking. Over a 5-7 year period, it will need to be replaced regardless of condition. Finding a replacement belt may be harder than finding a chain especially when you need a specific length.

A chain can pretty much last forever. My 1988 Bianchi still uses the original chain and hasn't rusted yet. I still ride the bike.

As for the kit, an 11ah battery may be okay for the short trips (15 mile one way or 30 round trip?) but that's cutting it close especially if you need more power to climb the hills. I only use an 11 ah battery if I know my trip is going to be 30-35 miles tops.

A 13.5ah or 14ah battery would be enough to handle both routes roundtrip. Once you get the bike, I'm almost certain you'll ride the long path back. That's what I do most of the time on my commute back.

With hub drives, I would recommend getting a throttle. I enjoy pedaling but still use the throttle to get going from a stop especially if I need to cross the road quickly in the city. Obviously, you can upshift to the largest gear but that can be tiresome after a while.

 

[Nova Haibike]

I think Juiced has a custom Bafang setup, rather like how Giant uses a custom Yamaha system. Bafang surely has a kit that would be similar in spec, but it won't be as integrated/hidden/elegant looking as what is on the CCS.

 

[MisterM]

Howdy,

I could use some help trying to identify a bike that would fit my requirements, but before that, here are some facts that helped shaped my requirements.

• Primarily will be used for commuting to and from work.
• My commute is 19.5 miles the easy way or 15.4 miles the more difficult way.
  • Here's what the 15.4 mile route looks like.
  • 
  • Here's what the 19.5 mile route looks like.
  • 
• I'm 6'6" and weigh between 260-275 lbs depending on a variety of factors.
• I have a left knee injury from a car accident some years back which is one of the reasons why I'm looking at a ebike.
• My commute routes are 99% dedicate bike paths.
• I'm in the Seattle area so the typical PNW weather needs to be factored in.
• I also ride a lot on private property (1.813 mi²) so something that can do above class 3 would be nice.
• My current bike is a 29er MTB that I put thinner city tires, fenders, and a rack.

With that in mind here's what I've been thinking about and could use some advice/review.

• Class 2 that can be unlocked or higher for use on the private property I can ride on.
• 750 Watt motor (WA legal limit)
• Lowest maintenance as possible which means not a chain driven bike.
  • Rohloff? Gates Carbon Belt? Pinion? Other?
• Disc brakes since it rains here.
• Trigger throttle.
• Fenders and rack a bonus.

Are there any bikes that don't use chains, has the potential to go fast, and can help someone my size climb hills? I could also consider retrofitting my existing bike with a kit like the EBO Clydesdale 2.0 kit.

Don't know anything that meets your chain-less requirement.

Maybe an Evelo Delta X with NuVinci IGH? Has 750w motor.

Larger guys like us really benefit from larger motors climbing hills Have you looked at Bafang Ultra mid drives? Have rare combo of mid drive power, torque sensor, throttle and speed/power can be user-adjusted. Biktrix Ultra, M2S Dual Trail, Volton A-Trail etc sell them (some market the Ultra as 1000w and others 750w - but it's the same motor with 1500+w peak and huge 160nm torque)

 

[rich c]

No such thing as low maintenance when riding 7,000 to 8,000 miles a year. I assume that commute you list as 15 miles is one way, and 280 work days a year. You are going to need to replace brake pads and tires a couple of times at the minimum. Also considering your weight and the unlocked speed with possible throttle use, the battery will need to be charged at work, so two charges a day. Just something to consider when looking at a $5,000 bike, it might only last a year or year and a half. If you consider modifying your existing bike, understand it is not build for the kind of speeds you intend. So possible spoke failure plus frame and rim cracking from that kind of mileage with your weight and battery and motor weight all added together.

 

[Diarmuid]

I don't think a belt drive would be less maintenance than an chain. Over time, the rubber is going to dry up from the sun leading to cracking. Over a 5-7 year period, it will need to be replaced regardless of condition. Finding a replacement belt may be harder than finding a chain especially when you need a specific length.

A chain can pretty much last forever. My 1988 Bianchi still uses the original chain and hasn't rusted yet. I still ride the bike.

As for the kit, an 11ah battery may be okay for the short trips (15 mile one way or 30 round trip?) but that's cutting it close especially if you need more power to climb the hills. I only use an 11 ah battery if I know my trip is going to be 30-35 miles tops.

A 13.5ah or 14ah battery would be enough to handle both routes roundtrip. Once you get the bike, I'm almost certain you'll ride the long path back. That's what I do most of the time on my commute back.

With hub drives, I would recommend getting a throttle. I enjoy pedaling but still use the throttle to get going from a stop especially if I need to cross the road quickly in the city. Obviously, you can upshift to the largest gear but that can be tiresome after a while.

I thought the whole point of a non-chain system was lower maintenance? Do you have any data that you can share about the service life of a chain vs a belt? Here's what I've found so far: https://cyclemonkeylab.blogspot.com/2014/06/tech-talk-belt-vs-chain-drive.html

No such thing as low maintenance when riding 7,000 to 8,000 miles a year. I assume that commute you list as 15 miles is one way, and 280 work days a year. You are going to need to replace brake pads and tires a couple of times at the minimum. Also considering your weight and the unlocked speed with possible throttle use, the battery will need to be charged at work, so two charges a day. Just something to consider when looking at a $5,000 bike, it might only last a year or year and a half. If you consider modifying your existing bike, understand it is not build for the kind of speeds you intend. So possible spoke failure plus frame and rim cracking from that kind of mileage with your weight and battery and motor weight all added together.

Replace low maintenance with lower maintenance than a traditional chain bike then. At least I wouldn't have to deal with a belt with my bad back and knee.

-----------------

Some other possible models I've found and while none of them go 28+ out of the box, that's fine as I can probably unlock it via various methods.

Nevo nuvinci
New Charger nuvinci
Roadster Urban
Charger GT nuvinci

 

[rich c]

Wow, I sure don't envy you grinding out 7,000+ miles a year on a bad back and knee! How many miles do you ride a year now? Any of those bikes listed have full suspension? Might consider the option our son chose, used Chevy Volt. Air conditioned and heated comfort, no gasoline. Picked it up for right at $14,000, but bet the prices are shooting up like the price of gas!

 

[Diarmuid]

Wow, I sure don't envy you grinding out 7,000+ miles a year on a bad back and knee! How many miles do you ride a year now? Any of those bikes listed have full suspension? Might consider the option our son chose, used Chevy Volt. Air conditioned and heated comfort, no gasoline. Picked it up for right at $14,000, but bet the prices are shooting up like the price of gas!

Just 3 miles each way right now to connect me between bus stops and last mile to the office. I actually did look at an EV but paying toll on the bridge is $2k a year alone.

 

[Dewey]

You could build up a bike using the Soma Wolverine steel frame that is Gates belt compatible, comes in a wide selection of sizes, and has braze-on lugs for fenders and a rack and bottle cage bosses so you can bolt on the battery cradle inside the triangle, your choice of suspension fork, disc brakes, suspension seatpost because it is a hard tail, the bottom bracket is 73mm BSA threaded so you could fit a Bafang mid-drive but as others have suggested you might want to go with a front hub motor to reduce wear on the belt so measure the width between the front dropouts and choose a motor that is disk brake compatible and will fit, Grin Tech make good torque arms for hub motors and sell bottom bracket torque PAS sensors and can provide advice on motor and battery selection for your range and power needs and will thread the motor into a rim.

 

[rich c]

You could build up a bike using the Soma Wolverine steel frame that is Gates belt compatible, comes in a wide selection of sizes, and has braze-on lugs for fenders and a rack and bottle cage bosses so you can bolt on the battery cradle inside the triangle, your choice of suspension fork, disc brakes, suspension seatpost because it is a hard tail, the bottom bracket is 73mm BSA threaded so you could fit a Bafang mid-drive but as others have suggested you might want to go with a front hub motor to reduce wear on the belt so measure the width between the front dropouts and choose a motor that is disk brake compatible and will fit, Grin Tech make good torque arms for hub motors and sell bottom bracket torque PAS sensors and can provide advice on motor and battery selection for your range and power needs and will thread the motor into a rim.

You can get a Bafang mid drive with belt drive?

 

[Ken M]

Howdy,

I could use some help trying to identify a bike that would fit my requirements, but before that, here are some facts that helped shaped my requirements.

• Primarily will be used for commuting to and from work.
• My commute is 19.5 miles the easy way or 15.4 miles the more difficult way.
  • Here's what the 15.4 mile route looks like.
  • 
  • Here's what the 19.5 mile route looks like.
  • 
• I'm 6'6" and weigh between 260-275 lbs depending on a variety of factors.
• I have a left knee injury from a car accident some years back which is one of the reasons why I'm looking at a ebike.
• My commute routes are 99% dedicate bike paths.
• I'm in the Seattle area so the typical PNW weather needs to be factored in.
• I also ride a lot on private property (1.813 mi²) so something that can do above class 3 would be nice.
• My current bike is a 29er MTB that I put thinner city tires, fenders, and a rack.

With that in mind here's what I've been thinking about and could use some advice/review.

• Class 2 that can be unlocked or higher for use on the private property I can ride on.
• 750 Watt motor (WA legal limit)
• Lowest maintenance as possible which means not a chain driven bike.
  • Rohloff? Gates Carbon Belt? Pinion? Other?
• Disc brakes since it rains here.
• Trigger throttle.
• Fenders and rack a bonus.

Are there any bikes that don't use chains, has the potential to go fast, and can help someone my size climb hills? I could also consider retrofitting my existing bike with a kit like the EBO Clydesdale 2.0 kit.

I own 5 turnkey ebikes because I was in a qwest to find the best reliable urban commuter. Not sure if it exists via the turnkey market right now. I do believe the best solution (assuming avg. commute speeds above 15mph/25kph are desired) will be a powerful direct drive hub motor with a Pinion or just a Schlumpf two speed crack based transmission (with adequate power it would be very reasonable for the 1st speed to get you to 20mph with reasonable cadence and the 2nd to get you past 35mph with reasonable cadence while keeping the bike uber simple).

My favorite bike right now is a uniquely configured PIM Archer with a 750W direct drive motor. While it's not as fast as I would like I can cruise comfortably on it at 22-24mph with moderate effort even up fairly significant grades. They are not a well know brand but I think their products are excellent (albeit in need of higher capacity batteries).

 

[Dewey]

You can get a Bafang mid drive with belt drive?

https://california-ebike.com/thinking-adding-bafang-mid-drive-belt-drive-bike/ Doug Snyder recommends only using a Rohloff IGH due to the need for precise alignment of the chainline.

https://electricbike.com/forum/foru...belt-drive-rohloff-speedhub-bbshd-52v-17-5-ah

Ron "Spinning Magnets" publicized a BBS02/Sturmey CS-RK3 IGH conversion stating "since it is a freehub with spines on the chain-side (for mounting a cassette), the pulley can be located with spacers, and moved to the left or right until it is aligned as good as is possible with the the chainline of the front pulley".

The Gates manual on page 27 lists hub/sprocket/beltline combinations (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

 

[Ken M]

It so infrequently stated that I think it's sometimes an intentional conspiracy by the mid-drive producers... Mid-drives benefit from gear ratios at slow speeds but are negatively impacted at higher speeds. Let's just say you are wanting to ride at a comfortable constant speed of 25mph on a long flat stretch of road and your chain is on a 44T front and 11T rear sprocket to have the comfortable cadence. Only 25% of the torque produced at the axle of the mid-drive motor is transferred to the rear wheel because of that gear ratio. In my opinion that is the equivalent of inefficiency such that in that very same situation a direct drive hub motor would be more efficient than the mid drive and most likely providing more torque to the rear wheel for improve performance at those higher speeds.

Don't get me wrong I know a lot of EBRers out there don't feel comfortable going faster then about 15mph/25kph so a mid-drive is an ideal solution for them or any mtn biking enthusiast that needs great climbing ability and low unsprung rear wheel weight for aggressive trail riding. For anyone wanting a fast urban commuting bike, I simply think the scientific facts support that hub drives are superior overall - more reliable, lower life cycle costs, and maybe even more efficient at higher speeds.

Don't drink the industry koolaid that mid-drives are superior for all ebike applications.

 

[rich c]

Intentional conspiracy? Don't drink the kool aid? Wow, we better have an investigation! The geared hub motor failed on one of my bikes at 1682 miles. Hall sensor cold solder joints was the reported issue. At 2000 miles on one, and 1908 miles on a second, my Bosch mid drives cruise on. No conspiracy fears here!

 

[Ken M]

Conspiracy? I was just pretending to be a wacky politician (both sides of the isle have become bat guano whack-nuts). Contemporary times requires contemporary humor.

As stated I primarily believe in direct drive hub motors (ie no internal plastic gears wear out or literally fail from excess heat making them soft). There is a new generation of controllers (termed "sensorless") that can drive a hub motor without hall sensors (use back emf to establish phase timing). In this configuration there is almost nothing to wear-out/fail in a direct drive hub motor except for the axle bearings which if ceramic lubricated with synthetic grease would be good for 100,000 miles (or life of any bike in reality). If these direct drive motors are thermally protected and have good stator to wire insulation to prevent any possible cause of shorting then these motors will, without a doubt, be more reliable than any mid-drive and far less expensive to replace if either did fail.

I have two Haibikes with mid-drives (a Yamaha and a Bosch) and I do like them, but they fall short of performing as well as my direct drive hub motor bikes from PIM that was much lower cost (with superior components for the most part as well). Unless you spend a significant % of your ride time over 15mph/25kph you will be well served by your Bosch mid-drive. Ride slow and ride safe is the typical mid-drive commuters philosophy. I'm riding over 30 miles a day so I just can't afford the added time to be slowed down by the performance of my mid-drive bikes unless I'm out for leisure rides at which they are fantastic.

If you are only in the mid-drive camp as being the superior solution for all riding....then yes you have drank the koolaid. No conspiracy, just a fact. Not meant to be mean because that is the impact of very good marketing by mid-drive producers when critical research has not been done.

 

[Dewey]

Let's just say you are wanting to ride at a comfortable constant speed of 25mph on a long flat stretch of road and your chain is on a 44T front and 11T rear sprocket to have the comfortable cadence...Don't drink the industry koolaid that mid-drives are superior for all ebike applications.

You might be right about derailleur gearing, I don’t have a belt drive but I had my shop convert my Bafang BBS01 equipped bike with a Nexus-8 IGH and Shimano recommend a 2:1 gearing ratio, thoughtfully they provide a selection of sprockets including a 21t that was an exact 2:1 ratio with the 42t Lekkie front chain ring I wanted to keep using, looks like Gates have Nexus/Alfine sprockets in 20, 22, & 24 teeth.

I suggested to the OP the option of using a mid-drive but also suggested he consider a front hub motor I’m agnostic on motor position but I don’t know what would be best for long term wear and tear. I like reading about Justin at Grin Tech’s experiments with ferrofluid for heat transfer in direct drive motors.