Looking for a lightweight city/commuter bike

[flyable7054]

Hi all,

I'm shopping around for my first ebike and I'm a bit overwhelmed by it all. As a general disclaimer, I'm not very knowledgeable about bikes and bike parts, so please excuse any ignorance on my part and please feel free to correct any misunderstandings.

I'm looking for an ebike to help get around my urban neighborhood. Getting groceries, going out to restaurants, and the like. So far, I think I've settled on the following hard requirements:

- Lightweight. I'd like the bike to essentially be as light as possible. To get in and out of my residence, I have to go up or down a few steps, and that's pretty typical of all homes and apartments in my area.
- Commuter utility essentials: fenders, lights, racks. I need to be able to ride through puddles and dirty city streets, in light rain, at night, etc.

These features are nice-to-haves:

- Suspension. The streets around here aren't perfect, and I'd like a comfortable ride.
- Able to get up a hill: there are not many hills here, but it would be nice to be able to get up a 10% grade or so, while carrying groceries, without too much trouble.
- A throttle. This seems very convenient for getting up to speed from a dead-stop at a stoplight. I'm willing to be talked down from this feature, though. It just seems nice.
- Class 3. This might be at odds with a throttle, but I'm not sure. Can a bike be both class 2 and class 3? Either way, it would be nice for pedal assist to go beyond 20mph. I do like to speed around (when it's safe).

Anti-requirements:

- Folding bike. These seem gimmicky and annoying.
- A certain minimum range. I'm fine charging the bike every day, and just using it for shorter trips around town.

And some unknowns:

- Sensor. Cadence or torque, I guess I don't have strong opinions yet.
- Motor placement. I can't really tell if I'd be better off with a mid-drive or hub-drive. I've read some pros and cons of both. The simplicity of the hub drive appeals to me (I can't repair anything myself), and regenerative braking (if that technology exists yet) seems nice. The mid-drive can help ascend hills, which seems nice.

So far, I have really only found one ebike that seems to satisfy my two basic requirements (lightweight, has fenders): the Specialized Turbo Vado SL. However, I know that can't be right -- just a lack of imagination or skilled googling on my part. Any help in identifying more makes and models to check out would be very appreciated! Thank you.

 

[mschwett]

how important is "lightweight" to you ... and how light is light? that will be the biggest driver, eliminating most e-bikes if you want to keep it under, say, 35lb. the vado SL is indeed one in that category, but you definitely won't get a throttle and it doesn't have a true suspension. however, with big tires, set up tubeless, at low pressure, with the small shock in the headset (the "future shock") it's a very nice ride on most roads, and a highly capable commuter.

a 10% grade is doable, but you will have to pedal. the specialized bikes output motor power as a ratio of your own power, so to get the full 300w out of the bike, you need to pedal with around half that much energy, which for most people is enough to work up a light sweat. of course, you're going 3x as fast as you would be doing it yourself. if you're a very heavy person, you might want a more powerful bike, or if you want to ride with virtually no effort at all.

on your anti-requirements, agreed on both counts. the importance of range is overstated for most urban users. on your unknowns, there are good implementations of cadence only and cadence+torque, with the latter providing a more nuanced relationship between how hard you pedal and how hard the bike pushes you along. for a commuter, not a big deal IMO, as long as they are good implementations of each. you do not want regen braking - unfortunately the tech involved in that today requires very big, heavy hub motors that add quite a bit of drag when you're not pedaling. unless your commute consists solely of going up and down moderately steep hills (very steep hills don't give you much payback as the high speeds downhill mean most of the energy goes to drag) this should not even be on the list. hub vs. mid drive... pros and cons. mid-drive you get to use standard wheels, as easy to remove and replace as a regular bike. shops won't look twice and fixing a spoke, a flat, new tires, etc. hub drive, you get to use completely standard bike drivetrain components in the middle, and if you have a problem with the cranks, bottom bracket, chainrings, etc, a shop will have no problem getting you going. the biggest advantage of a mid-drive is better performance for climbing either very steep or very long hills, where the fact that the motor can spin at a consistent speed regardless of how fast you're going (because of the bike's transmission and the design of the mid-drive clutches) keeps it in a very efficient range. a rear hub motor's power and efficiency drop of very fast as speeds get down below 5mph, which can easily happen in a hurry with a 15% hill. i think either will be fine for you, focus more on the quality of the bike, the parts, the support, manufacturer, design, comfort, etc.

 

[fooferdoggie]

since you dont know a lot you really want a bike that can be serviced locally. suspension really is crap in most e bikes and adds a lot of weight.

 

[scottsdalecommuter]

I would visit your local bike shop and explain your needs and budget and if they are any good they will suggest a couple to test ride. Buy the one you like the most! I did this two years ago and couldn’t have been happier!

 

[Deacon Blues]

If you're not 'bike savvy' I'd recommend you purchase your bike from a local bike shop. E-bikes need more maintenance and having a bike shop close by that can work on your bike is a huge plus.
I'd also recommend a mid drive power train with a torque sensor.
Suspension forks are nice, but they add weight. Fortunately, you can purchase aftermarket suspension seat posts and stems that really help smooth out the ride, for a fraction of the weight.

The Vado Sl is a very good choice, but before you buy one find out if you can take one for a test ride.
Depending on your fitness level, you may find the bike underpowered, compared to other commuter styled ebikes.

 

[mrgold35]

I have a 750w rear hub cadence sensor Class II/20mph Radrover and 1000-1600w Himiway Cobra Pro Class III/+28 mph mid-drive tq sensor. Both have throttles that come in handy. It is more involving with a mid drive with up/down gear shifting depending of speed and needing to applying more "pedal power" with the tq sensor (harder you pedal, more the mid-drive will match). The tq sensor will feel like a more natural pedal feel compared to the black/white, on/off, cadence sensor power delivery. The rear hub Radrover is fall off a log simple to master, minimal gear changes compared to my mid-drive (you can stop in 4th-7th gear and use the throttle+pedal to start again), throttle is at full 750w when needed, and way less issues with chain/gear wear with rear hubs. I've used my throttle to help push my ebike up a flight of stairs when the elevator was out. No problems walking beside and riding the brakes down the same stairs.

You probably have a max price in mind you want to spend for the ebike. I would factor into the prices of all weather high vis riding gear, rack/rack bags, some tools for minor fixes, flat repair kit, helmet, eye protection, possible aux lights, accessories like cell phone holder/water bottle/louder bell/mirror(s), several types of locks, double-check for insurance coverage, and maybe a commuter backpack.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

The three most important things I have to share: Test, test, test.
1. Test a variety of ebikes — including some with and without suspension.
2. Keep an open mind about cadence- vs. torque-sensing assist till you've given both a thorough test under realistic riding conditions. (See below.)

Regarding throttles
Whether you plan to pedal a lot or a little might change minute by minute or day to day in an urban environment with intent to shop by ebike. Either way, a throttle can be a very handy riding tool with many, many uses having nothing to do with getting out of pedaling — especially in the setting you describe.

But first a caveat: I'm talking about a progressive throttle fully enabled at all non-zero assist levels. Then you can add instant but controllable power to whatever you and the assist happen to be doing at any time. Some throttles don't fill the bill.

A throttle like this really shines in traffic, where (a) instant bursts of speed are often your safest option, and (b) you don't always have the time or desire to change gears or assist level. Wouldn’t give up my throttle for those reasons alone, and I always pedal.

Here are some throttle tricks to try before deciding. A second or two is usually all it takes.
1. Squirt through a busy intersection or out of someone's blindspot.
2. Squirt across a lane for a turn.
3. Quickly distance yourself from developing threats like pedestrians, cars, and other bikes.
4. Get back up to speed quickly after any stop in any gear or assist level — especially on hills.
4. Pop up over steep driveway entrances and curb cuts without losing speed or cadence.
6. Catch a light.
7. Unload your chain for uphill downshifts with little loss of speed.

Cadence- vs. torque-sensing assist
Can't overemphasize this: Test both before deciding. The riding experiences are often quite different, and some ebikes are better than others when it comes to implementation.

Some find that utility riding leads to more recreational riding than expected. Others may disagree, but I think that torque-sensing better equips you for both.

Most of my riding is recreational, and I much prefer the natural power delivery of a torque-sensing ebike. However, my hilly area is crawling with utility riders on simple cadence-sensing ebikes with throttles used mainly as transportation, and those folks might well see it differently. I gather that many just want to get from A to B with minimal effort. And for them, simple cadence-sensing plus a throttle still makes sense.

Nothing wrong with that, mind you. Those folks represent cars not on the road.

 

[indianajo]

Your size, leg length, standover height, reach, and weight matter. I require a small frame, "one size fits all" frames do not fit me. If you are "normal", you have more choices.
I shop off my bike. I have found putting groceries only on the back, on MTB's and cruisers, lifts the front wheel and causes instability when hitting obstructions like high pavement separators, speed bumps, ridges of gravel, a branch on the road. I had the handlebars snap sideways out of my hands and throw me on my chin 5 times 2008-2018. When I bought a stretch frame cargo bike 2018, this problem stopped. My weight is on the front wheel, the cargo weight is on the back. This adds about 10 lb.
Biggest pothole smoother for low weight cost is IMHO, bigger wheels. I run 26"x2.1" tires. You can buy bikes with 27.5x2.4" tires now. With these 65 psi rated tires run at 45 lb or so, fairly effective smoothing for the holes you missed because they were under water or the car in front of you at the light. I do not ride a suspension.
Geared hubs are unsuited to long steady steep grades. An hour at low speed at maximum power can burn a geared hub motor. I climb 77 hills in my 3.7 hour commute, some up to 15% grade, and my motors wear out the gears in 3500-5000 miles, not the winding. Mid-drive cools better than geared hub for mountain climbing, but rarely is available with a throttle. Direct drive hubs which have regenerative braking drag with the power off, and I scrapped mine after a couple of months. Direct drive accelerate slowly below 10 mph, and IMHO are not suitable for riding on streets. Sometimes I have a short green light to cross 6 lanes on. Full power with a throttle and a geared hub helps get it done. I can ride a worn gear motor home without drag, and with the spare in a wheel in a garage, can be back riding in a day or two. It takes me more time to change a chain than it does to change a geared hub motor. My Mac12t high torque motor will go about 23 mph. The previous ebikeling 1300 w geared hub accelerated slower but would go ~26 mph. Probably had 10 windings. Both would start the bike without pedal help on a 15% grade with 330 lb gross (I'm 160 lb, groceries for 5 days +tools+water+spares are about 60 lb).
I suggest you check the blix packa genie (geared hub drive $1700) https://blixbike.com/products/packa-electric-cargo-bike?variant=39310818214063 and the momentum pakyak https://www.momentum-biking.com/us/bikes/urban-bikes/utility-bikes (middrive $4700). Both have few posts on the brand known problems threads. I ride a yubabike bodaboda which is aluminum and was for 2 years not for sale. It has been superb, with 24 speeds for pedaling up hills when rain takes out the throttle or gears in the hub motor wear out. The replacement Yuba Kombi https://yubabikes.com/compact-cargo/ has a mid drive and a steel frame. I see the bodaboda is back again, finally. I find the welded rack of the bodaboda does not waggle from side to side as bolt on racks did, which often dislocated the fender or rubbed the tire on the MTB's and cruisers prior to 2018. I have ~12000 miles on the bodaboda.
The packa has a generic dolphin battery which should be <$800 if stolen. The other two have patented batteries which are more like $1100-$1300.
I keep a $80 stainless steel 3/8" sling in a pannier, with an abus 92/80 lock. My bike has never been stolen but the tires have been stabbed a few times while shopping, meeting, or working. I carry 3 tubes and a flat folded tire. I ride with accessory front & rear lights, >100 lumen. I use $1 glasses for eye protection against gravel from trucks. I use a helmet with chin guard, a fox rampage in yellow+white. I carry rain gear, water, and tools to change tires tubes and tighten loose fasteners. I find insurance claims too much trouble to bother with. Since backpacks are not allowed in stores, I do not carry one. I do have a shopping bag in the pannier.
Happy shopping and later riding.

 

[PSm]

Hi all,

I'm shopping around for my first ebike and I'm a bit overwhelmed by it all. As a general disclaimer, I'm not very knowledgeable about bikes and bike parts, so please excuse any ignorance on my part and please feel free to correct any misunderstandings.

I'm looking for an ebike to help get around my urban neighborhood. Getting groceries, going out to restaurants, and the like. So far, I think I've settled on the following hard requirements:

- Lightweight. I'd like the bike to essentially be as light as possible. To get in and out of my residence, I have to go up or down a few steps, and that's pretty typical of all homes and apartments in my area.
- Commuter utility essentials: fenders, lights, racks. I need to be able to ride through puddles and dirty city streets, in light rain, at night, etc.

These features are nice-to-haves:

- Suspension. The streets around here aren't perfect, and I'd like a comfortable ride.
- Able to get up a hill: there are not many hills here, but it would be nice to be able to get up a 10% grade or so, while carrying groceries, without too much trouble.
- A throttle. This seems very convenient for getting up to speed from a dead-stop at a stoplight. I'm willing to be talked down from this feature, though. It just seems nice.
- Class 3. This might be at odds with a throttle, but I'm not sure. Can a bike be both class 2 and class 3? Either way, it would be nice for pedal assist to go beyond 20mph. I do like to speed around (when it's safe).

Anti-requirements:

- Folding bike. These seem gimmicky and annoying.
- A certain minimum range. I'm fine charging the bike every day, and just using it for shorter trips around town.

And some unknowns:

- Sensor. Cadence or torque, I guess I don't have strong opinions yet.
- Motor placement. I can't really tell if I'd be better off with a mid-drive or hub-drive. I've read some pros and cons of both. The simplicity of the hub drive appeals to me (I can't repair anything myself), and regenerative braking (if that technology exists yet) seems nice. The mid-drive can help ascend hills, which seems nice.

So far, I have really only found one ebike that seems to satisfy my two basic requirements (lightweight, has fenders): the Specialized Turbo Vado SL. However, I know that can't be right -- just a lack of imagination or skilled googling on my part. Any help in identifying more makes and models to check out would be very appreciated! Thank you.

For lightweight to go up steps, and with throttle, there’s not that many options. I would normally recommend this: https://ride1up.com/product/roadster-v2-gravel-roadster/ since it is lightweight, has a throttle, has wider tires for lower pressure and comfort, has a Gates belt drive for low maintenance need, and is fairly affordable.

BUT, because of your statements:

I'm not very knowledgeable about bikes and bike parts,

(I can't repair anything myself)

I would really recommend you go to a (hopefully) good Local Bike Shop, spend a lot of time with them and do many test rides, and ONLY get a bike that they sell and service. Unless you can handle things like minor assembly, maintenance and repair, it may be best for you to just work with them to find something that works for you.

If you try some out, the many helpful members of this forum may be able to give you a second opinion, and advice and their experience on the brands/models you are considering.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

the Specialized Turbo Vado SL.

Yes.
If you need comfort and fenders it is the SL 5.0 EQ.