Looking for a kit recommendation

[JES2020]

I’m new to ebikes and wanted to get a couple of ideas on how to proceed with electrifying my bike. It’s a steel framed Raleigh mountain bike (no suspension) currently set up as a hybrid with an upright riding position. I weigh about 220 lbs, the bike weighs close to 40 lbs including the bags, racks and baskets presently installed. I use this bike predominately as my grocery getter and will load it with another 30 lbs. Most rides are 4 to 10 miles round trip. I live a few hundred feet in elevation above my town, so all my rides on the way out are downhill, up to 20% grades in a couple of spots. Return trips aren’t fun so I’m looking for a set up with enough pedal assist power to get me back home without my heart pounding like a jack hammer. I was thinking about a front hub drive. Would 500 watts be enough? Also how would I determine ideal battery voltage and amperage? All suggestions are appreciated!
Thanks,
Jim
View attachment 116488

Personally I would suggest you go to endless sphere for more consistant information. Unfortunatly there are a lot of trolls and curmudgeons on this site and have been here for a long long time. They love to start agruments and confuse new users. I had to weed out the good ones and I censor the bad.

 

[linklemming]

Yeah, mid drive makes all the bike salesmen & chain salesmen & pro chain replacemen happy. Hill does not equal mid drive. Hill greater than 1000' rise in an hour equals mid-drive. Rockies, Sierras, Alps only. I cross 80 hills weekly with a front hub motor, 3 of them 15% grade and some others close to that. 200' total rise.
It is nearly impossible to buy a geared hub motor >500 watts these days. US vendors won't sell 48 v geared hub motors either. See above. People buy them then the first weekend then immediately try to go from Huntington Beach to Lake Arrowhead in one run. Burnt motor, warranty claim. I had a 1000 W Mac12t, loved it, rain burnt the pins off the ASI controller into the harness. Can't buy another one, except maybe in pallets of 8 from factory in Shanghai on alibaba.
Easiest front geared hub conversion is ebikeling.com . everything matches. Stupid lying displays and too fast too quick PAS1 on the one I bought in 2017, but everything matched. Worked 1st time. Still using the controller etc. That motor wore out the gears in 4500 miles.
OTOH if you want to save money and buy the controller, pas pickup, throttle, brake handles one at a time off ebay, batteryclearancewarehouse.com has bafang 500 w front hub motors for 36v for sale now, $23 each. No wheel. I have had trouble buying anything that matched on ebay. Even if the connectors are labeled on the ad, when the controller comes in the labels are all in Chinese.
Alternative is "1000 w" or "2000 w" direct drive hub motors. Total misapplication climbing hills with these. They won't burn up, but they will eat vast quantities of watthours going slowly uphill.
Don't use a front hub motor on slick or muddy rocks, steel plates, wood bridge decks, or on ice. Pedal or push when that occurs.
OTOH, when I loaded a MTB like that I got 23 lb front wheel 118 lb rear wheel without me on it. Weight on the back lifts the front wheel. I pitched over the handlebars on my chin 3 times, and once was knocked over by a dog charging the front wheel. Front wheel would hit a bump, stick, rock, snap sideways and up the seat would go. I haven't fallen off the stretch frame cargo bike yet. You can get used ones, unpowered. Stretch frame cargo bike puts rider weight on the front wheel, cargo on the back. Xtracycle yuba blix packa mongoose envoy are names to cruise craigslist ads with. New Mongoose envoy was about $750 new when the conversion was done listed on this topic. Avoid the old shimano 6 speed rear axles, they are too thin & one broke under my enormous 180 lb. No cargo that day. I converted my yuba bodaboda for about $840, 630 of that the battery. ebikeling batteries are cheaper than that. But I have 840 wh.

Hills greater than 1000ft in an hour is easily done with a quality hub motor, Pretty much every ride I do is 1.5 hours and 1500ft elevation gain which equate to the same and my 52V 10t GMAC with 30amp limit(about 1500w) handles it easily (a 12t would handle it even better). The climbing is only 1/2 of my ride or less. I am using a cycle analyst and phaserunner with temp sensing and limiting. I do the exact same rides with a 52V BBSHD at 30 amp limit.

Its more about how much power you are putting down with a hub motor vs the hill than a blatant hub motor vs hills analogy.

Same thing with my 52V juiced CCX at 1000 watts. While it got hot at times, after 18 months of abuse no signs of overheating(blackened/smelly coils) when I looked in the innards of the hub motors.

I live in the rockies(colorado) and have never been denied any purchase because of my location

Attached is a simple example. To put it into perspective the climb was only 20 minutes of the ride so thats 1k elevation in 20 minutes. This was a 'fitness ride' with 1.5x assist and motor output usually at 300-500w. No doubt you would overheat if using just throttle at 1500w.

 

[AHicks]

I am a fan of both geared hub drives AND mid drives. I own and ride both regularly. For those that say a hub drive will work in the hills, I have to wonder if you are considering the load/weight of the bike/rider/cargo here. To illustrate a little, I KNOW a 500w geared hub will struggle in the bigger hills with my weight on it (315lbs) especially when it comes to steeper hills. There's no "if" to it! There's a reason I went with a 1000w MAC geared hub fed by 35a controller for riding in these conditions. The wife on the other hand, on her 500w geared hub, has very little trouble with her 125 lb weight on these same rides (though she is using an KT-22a aftermarket controller). So geared hubs will work in the hills, not saying they won't. The question will be, will the one you're looking at get the job done?

According to the weights posted by the OP, he's planning on a weight of 290 going up his hill BEFORE he adds the weight of the conversion!

Point being, there are hub drives, and then there are HUB DRIVES. Which one to go for, and how big will be necessary, will be critical decisions to get the job done. It's difficult to predict if you haven't been there done that. You absolutely cannot provide any assurance the average geared hub kit from Amazon is going to work here.

ALL of this concern can be avoided with a 750w+ mid drive. The mid drive WILL climb the hill. The only question then is how fast it can do that. Further, they are not generally difficult installs. For instance, the controllers are built in, not something you have to worry about mounting.

 

[harryS]

Most rides are 4 to 10 miles round trip. I live a few hundred feet in elevation above my town, so all my rides on the way out are downhill, up to 20% grades in a couple of spots. Return trips aren’t fun so I’m looking for a set up with enough pedal assist power to get me back home without my heart pounding like a jack hammer. I was thinking about a front hub drive. Would 500 watts be enough? Also how would I determine ideal battery voltage and amperage? All suggestions are appreciated!
Thanks,
Jim

It would seem that 20% is like the moon to me. Wow. But I always maintain that if you can do it now on your regular bike, it's gotta be doable with a 500W motor and less effort, unless you're looking for an electric motorcycle.

Front motors tend to slip on loose pavement. The main drawback for me is my worries about fork breakage, so I won't recommend them for others, but I do have them,

Ebikeling does sell an nice geared motor kit. I've owned three of them. Check his amazon reviews. Note the 1 star review from the guy who lost the wheel off his front fork. His 36V kits use 22A controllers, so that's 800W peak when the battery is near full charge.

 

[linklemming]

It would seem that 20% is like the moon to me. Wow. But I always maintain that if you can do it now on your regular bike, it's gotta be doable with a 500W motor and less effort, unless you're looking for an electric motorcycle.

Front motors tend to slip on loose pavement. The main drawback for me is my worries about fork breakage, so I won't recommend them for others, but I do have them,

A front motor would also slip/spin ALOT on a 20% grade with any amount of power since it would be very lightly loaded. I can only imagine what the steering(or lack thereof) would be like. At least it would be self limiting, a front wheel in the air cant supply power.

Not to say it cant be done but its not anything I would do (I prefer a light front end(on the flats) to facilitate getting over the many obstacles I encounter like curbs/steps/logs)

 

[tomjasz]

Bullpizzle. Several of us here have had multiple front driver bikes. Sandy road and dirt tracks will have slippage without aggressive tires. Road and street riding are NO issue. And now for you, back to the PLONK.

you have a habit of taking cheap shots. Mimicking posters with your avatars and taking pokes reminiscent of my 3rd grade nephew.

 

[linklemming]

Bullpizzle. Several of us here have had multiple front driver bikes. Sandy road and dirt tracks will have slippage without aggressive tires. Road and street riding are NO issue. And now for you, back to the PLONK.

you have a habit of taking cheap shots. Mimicking posters with your avatars and taking pokes reminiscent of my 3rd grade nephew.

Dont be silly, Im not saying front driver bikes dont work, you are distorting what I stated. Im saying that there will likely be issues on a 20% grade due the simple physics of the front wheel being lightly loaded. On another note, how easy is it to lift the front while riding to go up a curb? I encounter at least 10 of those on every ride. I am not badmouthing front hub bikes as I have a friend who has one and it is perfect for him. I have no need for one.

I find it funny that you accuse me of taking cheap shots yet it is the very definition of your behavior. Its not just me that have noticed this as many others have commented and asked you to tone it down to which you have responded like a senior yelling at kids to get off his lawn.

Lighten up man

 

[tomjasz]

I guess I should have done a QFT of your insult before you edited it out. See ya!

Welcome to the troop.