Let's Develop a cycling club policy on e-road bikes

[ghukins]

I have developed a proposed policy for a US cycling club. I would like feedback and any edits you may suggest. Let's also make it global (25 kph on class 1 speed and 45kph on class 3). PLease post whatever you have or can suggest.

Proposed E-bike Policy
Members of the Morris Area Freewheelers Bicycle Club may ride bicycles with electric assist motors on all Club tours and events, provided:

• The bicycle must be pedal assist (the bike does not move without pedaling), it must not have a throttle and must be a Class 1 or Class 3 e-bike (pending legislation on this Class).
• Throttle e-bikes are strictly prohibited for safety
• It is not the responsibility for a Ride Leader to determine if a rider is using an e-bike or what class of e-bike a rider is using, but rather to make riders aware of the current legislation. It is the rider’s responsibility to know and obey the law.
• If an e-bike rider is operating their e-bike in an unsafe manner, a Ride Leader has the authority to speak with the e-bike rider to discuss what they are doing incorrectly or to ask that the e-bike rider ride off the back of the group for the safety of others
• A rider with an e-bike should ride with the same pace rides they would ride without an e-bike. It is unsafe to use an e-bike to ride two or more levels beyond your ability with a regular bike. Beyond physical stamina and capability comes a skill set developed by faster riders that includes paceline and knowledge of bike handling that a D rider will not possess.
• Etiquette:
• It is considered bad form for an e-bike rider to aggressively pass regular bike riders up steep hills
• An e-bike rider should ride at the pace of the other riders
• An e-bike rider should be certain they have sufficient battery reserve for the ride they have chosen (fully charged battery and spare if needed). It is not the Ride Leader’s responsibility to ensure that the e-bike rider is safely returned to the start point should they run out of battery; although they, or another rider, would be encouraged to do so

Class 1 – 750W/20 mph max, pedal assist
eBikes that are pedal-assist only, with no throttle, and have a maximum assisted speed of 20 mph.
Class 2 - 750W/20mph max, throttle activated only
eBikes that also have a maximum speed of 20 mph, but are throttle-assisted.
Class 3 – 750W/28mph max, pedal activated only. (Speed Pedelec)
eBikes that are pedal-assist only, with no throttle, and a maximum assisted speed of 28 mph.

Federal Law
For the purpose of this section, the term `low-speed electric
bicycle' means a two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable
pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose
maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by such a
motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20
mph.

Speed Pedelec ebikes – A new classification of bikes called ‘Speed Pedelecs’ have emerged which technically meet the bicycle definition for a 20 mph ebike. These e-bikes are designed to max out at 28 mph. Pedelecs are pedal activated vs throttle activated. The weasel words within the definition says, “20mph on motor alone”. Thus, a person who adds their leg power to the motor assist and happens to cruise at 28mph is NOT doing it by motor alone, and therefore the bike is considered to be compliant with the Federal Law. If the rider stops pedaling, the speed pedelec cannot maintain speed.

 

[JRA]

Your perception of throttles is baseless. I have throttles on my road and mtb eBikes and have ridden many miles alongside analog bikers with no issues whatsoever.

The fact that an eBike has a throttle does not preclude having PAS nor mean that it will be used to exclusivity, especially by an avid type cyclist.

 

[christob]

While I don't have a throttled ebike today, I think "strictly prohibiting" them from this draft policy, by using the reasoning of "for safety" is not really fair or meaningful...
In my (throttle-less) Class 3 ebike's level 5/max assist, I could match any throttled Class 2 bike's acceleration potential by applying seemingly just an ounce of pedal pressure... It is so powerful, and accelerates so strongly (with again, just a whisper of effort from me -- it is comical how little I have to actually do in Level 5 to be flying at speed!) that I have yet to find a valid use case for riding in Level 5 on any of my own rides, today... I can't even remember the last time I used Level 4!
All of which means, I don't think banning throttled ebikes from the policy "for safety" is a remotely fair application of safety as the claim. I would argue a Class 3 assisted at 28 could easily pose a greater danger in a group, than a Class 2 throttled up to 20mph.
(Though, I do understand how eliminating throttled ebikes from such a group policy definition, also eliminates the potential conflict with other rules, re: "no device that can self-propel / propel without human power." ie, dropping any throttled ebike from the crowd, removes any of that "grey area" for whether the bike is self-propelling. IF that were a critical concern -- which I'm not convinced it would need to be, here.)
Your bullet about not riding above your "analog bike" ability is aimed only at people who know what all that actually means -- a first time cyclist, who happens to start out their first time biking on an ebike, likely won't know what a "D rider" is. Will your group be testing for, or assigning skill levels to members, so they know "where they land" and could therefore try not to violate this rule?

 

[ghukins]

On the throttle issue, we believe that they will be banned in NJ, where I am from, and suspect that may be the case in many states. I agree that limited to 20mph, they perhaps pose less of a threat than a class 3, but this is more conforming with law than just safety. A noted edit to be made to remove safety as the underlying motive.

This is going to be a complicated trial and error period, especially with new cyclists. Testing of new riders is difficult if they only have an ebike. How do you determine their pace? Do you have them ride a volunteered analog bike? Obviously riding an ebike with the motor off will skew the result badly in the opposite direction, unless it is a light assist like ebikemotion and Fazua. Any other thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Marci jo]

A little clarification please. Does your policy have the intention of assigning riders to different levels or grades? Is testing required?

The overall impression I’m getting is that you are uncomfortable with ebikes riding with other bikes and would some restrictions. Please clarify.

 

[ghukins]

Your perception of throttles is baseless. I have throttles on my road and mtb eBikes and have ridden many miles alongside analog bikers with no issues whatsoever.

The fact that an eBike has a throttle does not preclude having PAS nor mean that it will be used to exclusivity, especially by an avid type cyclist.

I agree with you, but as I commented to the person after you, I need to change it from safety concern to an issue on the road of legality, which is an issue in a number of states in the US.

A little clarification please. Does your policy have the intention of assigning riders to different levels or grades? Is testing required?

The overall impression I’m getting is that you are uncomfortable with ebikes riding with other bikes and would some restrictions. Please clarify.

I am trying to use a policy to cleanly integrate ebikes with a club whose board is generally not in favor of them and is trying to make it difficult to use one. Minor restrictions, and rules of etiquette, should make it much easier.

 

[christob]

Honestly, you could probably represent your entire club ebike policy for tours & events with a simple revision of the 3rd bullet:

• It is not the responsibility for a club Ride Leader to determine if members are using an e-bike, nor what class of e-bikes may be in use.
  It is the responsibility of all member riders {note, this applies to any bike in use!} to know and obey the laws in effect; in particular this means ebike riders must also be familiar with current ebike regulations governing their use. All members must ride responsibly in a manner that prevents added risks to the group and to any other people encountered during a group ride. Any member displaying reckless or irresponsible riding behavior may be requested by the Ride Leader to drop from the group ride {or insert the club's disciplinary language here.}

All the rest gets mighty granular, beyond that simple guiding policy, and starts to place a lot of potential responsibility on the club, rather than the individual riders. Granular sometimes feels like achieving nice, tight control and crystal clarity -- but it can also simply be a path to endless nit-picking and bickering over increasingly finer details and subtle meanings.

 

[indianajo]

Enjoy your club of one. I think PAS with minimum speed of 11 mph and acceleration of 500 w is positivly dangerous. I abandoned PAS. I view throttle as a safety device allowing gentle riding. I don't use electricity unless the wind is over 12 in my face. Or I suffer a leg pain, which is frequent for Viet Nam era army vets. Before electricty I've had to take a oxi-contin, then wait 90 minutes before I continued on home.
PS I won't ride with the bike club around here because they are as single minded as you are. Face to the ground, lead with your head, never stop for traffic signals! Yeah that is fast, also stupid+selfish. Plus they drive 2 ton SUV's to the launch point, which is in the middle of my typical ride. I don't drive anything but U-haul trucks anymore, for cargo over 60 lb. Enjoy the storms and deluges.

 

[christob]

@indianajo I think you may have missed @ghukins latest reply (Post #6)...

 

[Jaxx]

A little clarification please. Does your policy have the intention of assigning riders to different levels or grades? Is testing required?

The overall impression I’m getting is that you are uncomfortable with ebikes riding with other bikes and would some restrictions. Please clarify.

In support of G. His ideas are IN favour of both types of riders mixing together. Particularly at club level, where for numerous reasons e-bikers may just be put off joining in social rides. Or indeed may come across a not too friendly welcome. We are both in agreement, cycling clubs, cannot and should not miss out on welcoming a new type of cyclist. If this amalgamation of all types of cyclists riding together on club rides is to proliferate? Club social ride ettiquite has to be maintained. A simple framework of riding rules to be followed, enabling very experienced and new to group riding e-bike cyclists ride together in harmony is required.

 

[Jaxx]

Honestly, you could probably represent your entire club ebike policy for tours & events with a simple revision of the 3rd bullet:

• It is not the responsibility for a club Ride Leader to determine if members are using an e-bike, nor what class of e-bikes may be in use.
  It is the responsibility of all member riders {note, this applies to any bike in use!} to know and obey the laws in effect; in particular this means ebike riders must also be familiar with current ebike regulations governing their use. All members must ride responsibly in a manner that prevents added risks to the group and to any other people encountered during a group ride. Any member displaying reckless or irresponsible riding behavior may be requested by the Ride Leader to drop from the group ride {or insert the club's disciplinary language here.}

All the rest gets mighty granular, beyond that simple guiding policy, and starts to place a lot of potential responsibility on the club, rather than the individual riders. Granular sometimes feels like achieving nice, tight control and crystal clarity -- but it can also simply be a path to endless nit-picking and bickering over increasingly finer details and subtle meanings.

You could be describing BREXIT!

 

[JRA]

To the OP I would say to first get an eBike and spend some time riding it yourself before you go about making rules for others to follow.

I personally have thousands of miles on eRoadbikes that don't come anywhere close to your definition nor perceived desirable features, such as the Fazua system, yet come from as much or more of a cycling background as any Club member. Club riding is about being part of the group and as Christob says their is usually a code of conduct amongst the riders and whether you have an eBike with a million watt motor with a throttle or a 250w PAS only bike ultimately it is up to the rider to be responsible and know the signs and signals that are part of group riding as well as etiquette. Anyone going outside those parameters would be easy enough to educate or expel before any harm is done.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

a US cycling club

I am trying to understand what is the role of these clubs in promoting cycling!
I am a very athletic man, moved to cycling after a terrible ACL and meniscus injury in Badminton and track/field but I have a hard time appreciating the role of these clubs in promoting cycling as a healthy alternatives for transport or even health activity. I understand if someone is a pro-rider but others, can we be little more inclusive?

I really enjoy riding with groups of friends, enjoy the camaraderie but some of these clubs seem to be not so welcoming if you don't stick to their "rules".
Most eBikers are very sensible people and pigeonholing them as Class 1 or Class 2 or Class 3 simply takes all the fun away. {BTW, these classes didn't exist until few years ago}

 

[Jaxx]

I am trying to understand what is the role of these clubs in promoting cycling!
I am a very athletic man, moved to cycling after a terrible ACL and meniscus injury in Badminton and track/field but I have a hard time appreciating the role of these clubs in promoting cycling as a healthy alternatives for transport or even health activity. I understand if someone is a pro-rider but others, can we be little more inclusive?

I really enjoy riding with groups of friends, enjoy the camaraderie but some of these clubs seem to be not so welcoming if you don't stick to their "rules".
Most eBikers are very sensible people and pigeonholing them as Class 1 or Class 2 or Class 3 simply takes all the fun away. {BTW, these classes didn't exist until few years ago}

Rav, I believe what G. is attempting to cover, is one situation where e-biker's are keen on approaching a club to ride with. Encouraging both parties to ride together, in a more organised framework. Many folks have the desire to ride with others and also enjoy the social scene, that goes along with been part of an affiliated cycling club. Not for everyone I agree.

 

[Toomanycats]

I am trying to understand what is the role of these clubs in promoting cycling!
I am a very athletic man, moved to cycling after a terrible ACL and meniscus injury in Badminton and track/field but I have a hard time appreciating the role of these clubs in promoting cycling as a healthy alternatives for transport or even health activity. I understand if someone is a pro-rider but others, can we be little more inclusive?

I really enjoy riding with groups of friends, enjoy the camaraderie but some of these clubs seem to be not so welcoming if you don't stick to their "rules".
Most eBikers are very sensible people and pigeonholing them as Class 1 or Class 2 or Class 3 simply takes all the fun away. {BTW, these classes didn't exist until few years ago}

I don’t know if this has anything with these clubs insisting on rules. In any case, this accident and lawsuit had nothing to do with e-bikes. Maybe the safety concern is that people will be drawn to the group who don’t have the skills to ride at speed. But you don’t need an e bike to cause a crash.
Also, I don’t know about anyone else, but it’s when I get tired that my attention starts to flag, and I’m prone to making mistakes. A throttle might help a rider who’s been dropped and is tired, lost, and maybe discouraged and/or inattentive.
https://www.bicycling.com/news/a22119670/cyclist-sues-group-ride/

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I say go for it.

There are a lot of old farts on here that will pick apart any idea, good or bad. So I would say go with what you've got but be willing to learn from experience and make changes. No plan is perfect and no plan can't be improved through practical experience.

Good luck.

 

[Over50]

Reading that long policy/guideline makes organized cycling sound really unattractive and stressful (to me). So much politics attached to the club ride/road bike scene. I like being the lone commuter. Alone on my commute or on weekend errands I can stop for the stop signs and obey other traffic laws with no pressure to be anywhere at any particular pace. Nice and peaceful.

 

[Ebiker01]

LOL, that must have been the funniest (the 1st post ) ever on Ebr.
As a serious cyclist, i wonder if you ride on your Peloton VR bike or other indoor trainer ?!

It is all common sense ,
Here i make the GLOBAL E BIKE ETIQUETTE:
* any person (over 14yo) on any type of e bike can join any regular group ride assuming said person uses good judgement, common sense and fairplay in riding with the group.
- in the case of given 3 Verbal warnings from the group leader) of riding unsafe , said e bike rider or any other group rider on non ebike needs to take mandatory bike riding etiquette classes in order to ride again with said group.

 

[John from Connecticut]

I agree with you, but as I commented to the person after you, I need to change it from safety concern to an issue on the road of legality, which is an issue in a number of states in the US.



I am trying to use a policy to cleanly integrate ebikes with a club whose board is generally not in favor of them and is trying to make it difficult to use one. Minor restrictions, and rules of etiquette, should make it much easier.

Hello, You wrote...." I am trying to use a policy to cleanly integrate ebikes with a club whose board is generally not in favor of them and is trying to make it difficult to use one. Minor restrictions, and rules of etiquette, should make it much easier."

It's not clear from the above if you personally support and have taken up the cause to try and include eBikes within the Road Cycling world or if you're
just doing the 'paperwork' for this potentially new group of riders. If you support the cause I commend you.

Referring to the quote above, why would any eBiker ever consider joining with the posted club mentality ? Road cyclists don't like eBikes, period.
Skilled, dedicated true road cyclists want nothing to do with eBikers. That combined with the litany of proposed 'rules' as listed,
none of this makes sense. I cannot see any eBiker wanting to join a group that has made it abundantly clear eBikers
are not wanted and will never be welcome, never mind dealing with the 'rules' as posted.

I find most of the rules nit picky. It reads more like an airplane pre-flight check. Probably the single most important 'rule' aka skill. Can the eBiker
safely ride a paceline and or draft without putting themselves or others in danger ?

One last thought...There are some 'serious' road eBikes the 'Board' might want to check out.

http://pinarello.com/en/bikes-2019/e-road/nytro

 

[Nomadmax]

It's a bike, but it has an electric motor to assist it. But for handling skills, it's no different than riding with a group of Cat 1s & 2s. As a former road racer, I'd welcome the chance to ride with someone on an E-Road Bike (provided their paceline skills are consummate with the group). He or she can take all the pulls into the wind for me. Competitive road cyclists go out on group training rides for one purpose, to beat on each other and get faster. You can ride by yourself til the cows come home but when that third or fourth surge comes on race day you're gonna be a spectator. Heck, I'm considering an E-Road Bike for recovery rides and to put friends on so I can ride with them; without motor assistance it just wouldn't be fun or productive for either of us. Roadies may not be as resistant to E-bikes as many people claim.

Cycling clubs better be careful, further dividing cyclists into "categories" and creating rules for exclusion doesn't do "us" as a whole any good. It's been my experience that sometimes, people who aspire to positions in cycling clubs aren't there for the long term best interest of cycling.