Leons ET Cycle T720

[PCeBiker]

Yes a thumb throttle that’s more like an on/off switch but i can ride around that. Yes PAS can be set to 45 klm/h but jeez you would need to be pedalling like crazy to get there. I needed torque as i tow my 2 small dogs in a trailer. Plus i’m disabled and ebikes are my primary forms of transport. I have mid and hub drives plus 2 escorts.

Your F1000 probably came with the "Off-Road" display installed on it.

From what I understand, Europe and Australia are limited to 250 Watts, 32 kph, and throttles aren't allowed (unless they are limited to 6 kph)

I'm pretty sure that European and Australian versions of the F1000, T1000, F720, and T720 come with a 15 amp controller to limit power to 500 Watts peak, and my Canadian T1000 version has an 18 amp controller to limit power to 750 Watts peak.

I figure that I should have an extra 3 amps to help me get to 45 kph, but I don't want to go that fast anyway.



Do you notice any difference between "Power" mode and "ECO" mode, in terms of the "kick" the ebike gives when you hit the throttle or when you start pedaling in PAS mode?

 

[Daffyh]

Your F1000 probably came with the "Off-Road" display installed on it.

From what I understand, Europe and Australia are limited to 250 Watts, 32 kph, and throttles aren't allowed (unless they are limited to 6 kph)

I'm pretty sure that European and Australian versions of the F1000, T1000, F720, and T720 come with a 15 amp controller to limit power to 500 Watts peak, and my Canadian T1000 version has an 18 amp controller to limit power to 750 Watts peak.

I figure that I should have an extra 3 amps to help me get to 45 kph, but I don't want to go that fast anyway.



Do you notice any difference between "Power" mode and "ECO" mode, in terms of the "kick" the ebike gives when you hit the throttle or when you start pedaling in PAS mode?

Yes we did get the off road display and I have confirmed the 15 amp controller. Eco mode is a minor difference it does accelerate a bit slower.15 amp controller allows 720 peak and in comparison to my other ebikes I would say it’s in the money.

 

[PCeBiker]

Yes we did get the off road display and I have confirmed the 15 amp controller. Eco mode is a minor difference it does accelerate a bit slower.15 amp controller allows 720 peak and in comparison to my other ebikes I would say it’s in the money.

Thanks Daffy.

I'm hoping that being able to turn it down to Eco along with my twist throttle, I should be able to control the power better.

I'm pretty sure that all the controllers look the same, but the guts are different.

 

[PCeBiker]

My straps arrived.
They fit perfectly. They are stretched to their maximum so they are nice and snug.
I put two on top of each other.
The battery doesn't move around now.
It doesn't look great, but I don't care.




I fed it under the brake line to not stress the line..

 

[Daffyh]

Thanks Daffy.

I'm hoping that being able to turn it down to Eco along with my twist throttle, I should be able to control the power better.

I'm pretty sure that all the controllers look the same, but the guts are different.

View attachment 142545

Twist throttle should help a lot

 

[PCeBiker]

My Off-Road C7 display arrived and I took it for a test drive.
I wanted to get on the road quickly to test it before a major winter storm rolled in just a few hours later, so I test rode it without my bike chain. (it's still soaking to remove the grease before a hot wax treatment.)

I noticed no difference at all between eco and power modes.

I was adjusting all kinds of parameters trying to feel a difference.

I also tested the 45 kmh setting and it is a lie.
The power cuts out at 32.1 kph and it's up to me to pedal it faster with no power assist.
I tried changing the wheel size and that doesn't work either.
The smallest wheel size to select from (out of 19 choices) is 20X1.75 and the largest is 29X2.40

When I select 20X1.75 the speedometer reads 23.1 kph but my actual speed is still about 32 kph.



(I was using my throttle for this picture because my bike was leaning over on the kickstand, and I couldn't spin the crank without hitting the kickstand.)




When I select 29X2.40 the speedometer reads 32.1 kph, but it is probably slower because a 29X2.40 wheel has a larger diameter than my 26X4.00?





These are the power settings available.
I didn't try "normal", just eco and power.



These are the PAS modes available.




These are the throttle setting choices.





When I select 45 kph, the power cuts out at 32.1 kph.
When I select 32 kph, the power also cuts out at about at 32.1 kph.
When I select 25 kph or 20 kph the maximum throttle speed selections drop to 20 kph or 6 kph, so I didn't test them.

It was warm enough outside to ride to the same path through the forest to test the throttle in the dirt, and it did feel a lot less twitchy on the throttle but I could still feel no difference between power and eco mode.

I realized that I was down to 1 bar on my battery bar graph, and figured that was why the throttle wasn't as punchy.
Then on the way home, I noticed that my maximum speed had dropped to 27 kph.
The current graph was floating around the half way mark, so it's not like the battery was giving all that it could.

It wasn't until I got home that I realized I should have tested the acceleration at lower PAS and throttle settings.
I was hoping to select a lower PAS speed to slow the bike down (PAS 1 is 25 kph when PAS 6 is 32 kph) but I wanted to keep my throttle at 32 kph.


Perhaps the acceleration isn't as punchy when the PAS and throttle modes are turned down.
I can set my PAS speed to 25 kph and my throttle will get me to 20 kph. That might get the acceleration to decrease as well?

I can't really test the acceleration in my house with the back wheel in the air under no load, and I can't test the bike outside now because All Hell Broke Loose and then froze over. Lol

Perhaps I can try it again outside when things warm up and the roads are clear and dry.

The off-road display turned out to be a big waste of money for me, and I had to pay an extra $20 COD at the door for shipping as well.

I intend to use my "cruise control" anyway and not use PAS modes, and turning down the power to "ECO" made no noticeable difference.

 

[PCeBiker]

I noticed that my straps are working and that clunking noise has stopped.




When I got home from my test drive, I removed the battery for only the second time.
The battery was really difficult to remove with the lock and battery being so sloppy.
When I got the battery out, a screw fell on the floor.

It was one of the screws that is supposed to hold the locking mechanism in place.





The battery is much better now with the screw replaced but there is still movement and I'm going to keep using the straps.
The bouncing around is probably what vibrated the screw loose and it could eventually break the plastic battery connection or break a wire inside the battery disabling it.

I would suggest to everyone to at least remove those screws and reinsert them with loctite.

 

[Daffyh]

My Off-Road C7 display arrived and I took it for a test drive.
I wanted to get on the road quickly to test it before a major winter storm rolled in just a few hours later, so I test rode it without my bike chain. (it's still soaking to remove the grease before a hot wax treatment.)

I noticed no difference at all between eco and power modes.

I was adjusting all kinds of parameters trying to feel a difference.

I also tested the 45 kmh setting and it is a lie.
The power cuts out at 32.1 kph and it's up to me to pedal it faster with no power assist.
I tried changing the wheel size and that doesn't work either.
The smallest wheel size to select from (out of 19 choices) is 20X1.75 and the largest is 29X2.40

When I select 20X1.75 the speedometer reads 23.1 kph but my actual speed is still about 32 kph.

View attachment 143228

(I was using my throttle for this picture because my bike was leaning over on the kickstand, and I couldn't spin the crank without hitting the kickstand.)

View attachment 143226


When I select 29X2.40 the speedometer reads 32.1 kph, but it is probably slower because a 29X2.40 wheel has a larger diameter than my 26X4.00?

View attachment 143229

View attachment 143227

These are the power settings available.
I didn't try "normal", just eco and power.

View attachment 143230View attachment 143231

These are the PAS modes available.

View attachment 143232View attachment 143233View attachment 143234View attachment 143235View attachment 143236


These are the throttle setting choices.

View attachment 143242View attachment 143243View attachment 143244



When I select 45 kph, the power cuts out at 32.1 kph.
When I select 32 kph, the power also cuts out at about at 32.1 kph.
When I select 25 kph or 20 kph the maximum throttle speed selections drop to 20 kph or 6 kph, so I didn't test them.

It was warm enough outside to ride to the same path through the forest to test the throttle in the dirt, and it did feel a lot less twitchy on the throttle but I could still feel no difference between power and eco mode.

I realized that I was down to 1 bar on my battery bar graph, and figured that was why the throttle wasn't as punchy.
Then on the way home, I noticed that my maximum speed had dropped to 27 kph.
The current graph was floating around the half way mark, so it's not like the battery was giving all that it could.

It wasn't until I got home that I realized I should have tested the acceleration at lower PAS and throttle settings.
I was hoping to select a lower PAS speed to slow the bike down (PAS 1 is 25 kph when PAS 6 is 32 kph) but I wanted to keep my throttle at 32 kph.


Perhaps the acceleration isn't as punchy when the PAS and throttle modes are turned down.
I can set my PAS speed to 25 kph and my throttle will get me to 20 kph. That might get the acceleration to decrease as well?

I can't really test the acceleration in my house with the back wheel in the air under no load, and I can't test the bike outside now because All Hell Broke Loose and then froze over. Lol

Perhaps I can try it again outside when things warm up and the roads are clear and dry.

The off-road display turned out to be a big waste of money for me, and I had to pay an extra $20 COD at the door for shipping as well.

I intend to use my "cruise control" anyway and not use PAS modes, and turning down the power to "ECO" made no noticeable difference.

This is well documented i got this display standard on my F1000 in Australia. Eco mode only makes the very smallest difference to throttle acceleration. You can always expect less performance as battery volts drop (my Bosch mid drive doesn’t do it different techs).

 

[PCeBiker]

This is well documented i got this display standard on my F1000 in Australia. Eco mode only makes the very smallest difference to throttle acceleration. You can always expect less performance as battery volts drop (my Bosch mid drive doesn’t do it different techs).

I didn't do enough research before I bought the new display. Lol

I think that I might still be able to use the display for my purposes though by just entering the settings mode and changing the throttle setting to either 20 kph, or even 6 kph when I get to the dirt where I want to go slow?
I've changed my settings so many times now that I can enter the settings without looking at the display.

I want to find out if the the acceleration is also reduced when the PAS mode or throttle is set to 20 kph.

I figure that 6 kph is for children and I would think that Das-Kit would turn the power/acceleration down for kids?

 

[PCeBiker]

Oh,..
My headlight still works and switches on when I turn on the backlight with the new display.

 

[Daffyh]

Oh,..
My headlight still works and switches on when I turn on the backlight with the new display.

Mine does too but as i use the front rack i took the light off as it hits the rack when forks compress.
I use the 20kph as a cruise control on the thumb throttle for short distance if i CBF pedalling, again only a very minor difference if eco is set but my display will always show Power mode. Such a subtle difference.
Yet to try the 6kph setting as i never go that slow. The controller is labelled as the 22Amp one even on the ‘250W’ version sold here. I suspect throttle would easily go above 32 kph its just locked in that way. My Bafang hub drive bike has no restrictions it will throttle to 40 kph no load but i’m to fat-103kg-so i get 36 at most unless down hill.

 

[PCeBiker]

It was warm and dry today so I went for another test drive.
I turned the PAS mode to 0 then set the throttle at 20 kph. The power/acceleration was just as punchy. Then I tried 6 kph and it was the same thing.
Using just my throttle, starting from a stop, I twisted the throttle just enough to engage it and it lurched forward so fast that it was going 11 kph before it even knew how fast it was going then cut the power off until the speed dropped back down to 6 kph.

So my off-road display has turned out to be a complete waste of money.

 

[Brew61]

It was warm and dry today so I went for another test drive.
I turned the PAS mode to 0 then set the throttle at 20 kph. The power/acceleration was just as punchy. Then I tried 6 kph and it was the same thing.
Using just my throttle, starting from a stop, I twisted the throttle just enough to engage it and it lurched forward so fast that it was going 11 kph before it even knew how fast it was going then cut the power off until the speed dropped back down to 6 kph.

So my off-road display has turned out to be a complete waste of money.

Well that kind of sucks, I guess I will not be ordering one. Thanks for being the test pilot. You probably saved a few people some money and a head ache.

Bruce

 

[PCeBiker]

Well that kind of sucks, I guess I will not be ordering one. Thanks for being the test pilot. You probably saved a few people some money and a head ache.

Bruce

Well, I've learned that the display from Leon's in the US will provide power up to around 45 kph but the Australian off-road display is limited to 32 kph.

But the power surge from stopped is not adjustable and even with a more graduated twist throttle it doesn't help much especially when starting from a stop.

I'm pretty sure that I'm going to install a KT display and controller that has a normal cruise control, a throttle that controls power, and PAS mode speeds with adjustable power limits.

 

[Brew61]

Well, I've learned that the display from Leon's in the US will provide power up to around 45 kph but the Australian off-road display is limited to 32 kph.

But the power surge from stopped is not adjustable and even with a more graduated twist throttle it doesn't help much especially when starting from a stop.

I'm pretty sure that I'm going to install a KT display and controller that has a normal cruise control, a throttle that controls power, and PAS mode speeds with adjustable power limits.

Well it will be interesting if there is a fix for these bikes or not.

Bruce

 

[Daffyh]

Well, I've learned that the display from Leon's in the US will provide power up to around 45 kph but the Australian off-road display is limited to 32 kph.

But the power surge from stopped is not adjustable and even with a more graduated twist throttle it doesn't help much especially when starting from a stop.

I'm pretty sure that I'm going to install a KT display and controller that has a normal cruise control, a throttle that controls power, and PAS mode speeds with adjustable power limits.

Make sure you check the comms. protocols too or neither system will talk to each other not that its guaranteed anyway.

 

[PCeBiker]

Well it will be interesting if there is a fix for these bikes or not.

Bruce

I think that I'll be able to fix mine, but it's pretty involved.

 

[PCeBiker]

Make sure you check the comms. protocols too or neither system will talk to each other not that its guaranteed anyway.

Yeah, I'm working on all the details.

Lucky jkvt is helping me figure it all out.
He did a KT controller/display install on his Das-Kit NCM Moscow Plus.

Alternative Display and Controller for NCM (DAS-KIT)

Wanting to increase the PAS Max speed on my NCM bike I be quite satisfied with around 30-35kmh it currently 25kmh The Das-Kit system appears to be complete locked down so I'm considering if Sourcing a alternate KT display and controller that would plug and play with the current hub motor...

electricbikereview.com

 

[Daffyh]

Yeah, I'm working on all the details.

Lucky jkvt is helping me figure it all out.
He did a KT controller/display install on his Das-Kit NCM Moscow Plus.

Alternative Display and Controller for NCM (DAS-KIT)

Wanting to increase the PAS Max speed on my NCM bike I be quite satisfied with around 30-35kmh it currently 25kmh The Das-Kit system appears to be complete locked down so I'm considering if Sourcing a alternate KT display and controller that would plug and play with the current hub motor...

electricbikereview.com

Nice so it can be done

 

[PCeBiker]

Nice so it can be done

Yeah, but it's a bit like an engine swap on a car or a heart lung transplant on a human. Lol

And it looks like I'll be able to go 72 kph? Lol

Actually I should be able to get to the maximum rpm of the motor which is probably about 45 kph.