john peck
Well-Known Member
That just might work for the kickstand if it will take a 9mm hex head, cool anyway. lotsa applications.
Known Issues & Problems with Juiced Bikes Products + Help, Solutions & Fixes
- Thread starter Ann M.
- Start date
That just might work for the kickstand if it will take a 9mm hex head, cool anyway. lotsa applications.
john peck
Well-Known Member
I really hate to say this, but does anyone remember that old Jimmy Stewart movie where he's an aeronautical engineer
trying to tell the company that the tail of their airliner will fall off at X miles. Worse still, there's one in the air full of
people about to turn X miles
Well, it ain't quite that bad. I'll get back to you.
trying to tell the company that the tail of their airliner will fall off at X miles. Worse still, there's one in the air full of
people about to turn X miles
Well, it ain't quite that bad. I'll get back to you.
john peck
Well-Known Member
Having ordered spokes a month ago, Today I broke down the wheel to be ready to rebuild. Twas then I discovered something
alarming. If you exam closely the pic, you will notice that every other spoke bore has a notch chamfered into he motor rim with
the hole also becoming oval. This has resulted in the spoke being pinched behind the one crossing This is because both spokes
were laced to the same side of the motor rim on first run CCS's & clearly is not normal wear in spite of what Gibram, (support guy),
tried to tell me.
I thought I could fix it with 10g spokes, but now, having examined the damage, I am not happy about spokes moving back & forth
in that oval slot. This is clearly an issue that could have been avoided by doing it right the first time. Recent spoke failures have grown
more serious. The last 3 times I popped 4 spokes at a time on depressions scarcely more that a inch deep.
Perhaps spokes alternately placed properly will help, but I am seriously concerned that the motor is now ruined. This changes everything,
and I wonder what Juiced is going to do about it? There are other bikes out there ticking toward catastrophic spoke failure & possibly
serious injury as well. I your bike is one, it may not be too late to switch every other spoke, ...maybe.
The CCS is a great bike; It's a shame this flaw had to happen.
alarming. If you exam closely the pic, you will notice that every other spoke bore has a notch chamfered into he motor rim with
the hole also becoming oval. This has resulted in the spoke being pinched behind the one crossing This is because both spokes
were laced to the same side of the motor rim on first run CCS's & clearly is not normal wear in spite of what Gibram, (support guy),
tried to tell me.
I thought I could fix it with 10g spokes, but now, having examined the damage, I am not happy about spokes moving back & forth
in that oval slot. This is clearly an issue that could have been avoided by doing it right the first time. Recent spoke failures have grown
more serious. The last 3 times I popped 4 spokes at a time on depressions scarcely more that a inch deep.
Perhaps spokes alternately placed properly will help, but I am seriously concerned that the motor is now ruined. This changes everything,
and I wonder what Juiced is going to do about it? There are other bikes out there ticking toward catastrophic spoke failure & possibly
serious injury as well. I your bike is one, it may not be too late to switch every other spoke, ...maybe.
The CCS is a great bike; It's a shame this flaw had to happen.
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Rob02150
Active Member
Interesting find. I notice my old CC has the spokes all on one side and my CCS has them alternating. I personally have never had a spoke break on either of the bikes (even though the original CC was a spoke eating machine to many). Each have a few thousand miles on them. I'm not a big guy at all though, so maybe its being used to my advantage. I'm wondering if I should have the spokes on my old CC rebuilt as alternating spokes.
John do you have fat tire rims? I noticed on the fat tire rims there's 2 parallel lines where the spokes attach to the rim, not a single line. If so I can see where there might be issues, every spoke would have to be tensioned exactly the same to compensate for = forces around the rim. If any # of spokes are not tensioned correctly it puts extra stress on the other spokes...………….just thinking here.
john peck
Well-Known Member
Rob, it's definitely a thought; when laced that way, one spoke is trapped between the other & the hub rim. It cannot flex outward, but instead
is driven repeatedly down & into the spoke bore. It's hard to take a good picture, but this wears an angled groove into the rim that gets progressively
worse, If you are a lightweight it may never be a problem, But when it starts popping 4 spokes at once over the slightest bump, IT"S A PROBLEM!
Eventually, the bore becomes oval shaped allowing the spoke to snap back & forth with every vibration. When it gets that far the motor is ruined.
even thought it still has power. It simply chops up spokes like cord wood. In any event, redoing spokes will solve the problem if the damage is yet
slight. Right now I'm stuck for a worthless $3k hunk of metal with 2 batteries. Initially I thought larger spokes would solve the problem, but that was
before I took it apart & found the damage, Since then Juiced has been unresponsive. It's a great bike; I just want to be able to ride
is driven repeatedly down & into the spoke bore. It's hard to take a good picture, but this wears an angled groove into the rim that gets progressively
worse, If you are a lightweight it may never be a problem, But when it starts popping 4 spokes at once over the slightest bump, IT"S A PROBLEM!
Eventually, the bore becomes oval shaped allowing the spoke to snap back & forth with every vibration. When it gets that far the motor is ruined.
even thought it still has power. It simply chops up spokes like cord wood. In any event, redoing spokes will solve the problem if the damage is yet
slight. Right now I'm stuck for a worthless $3k hunk of metal with 2 batteries. Initially I thought larger spokes would solve the problem, but that was
before I took it apart & found the damage, Since then Juiced has been unresponsive. It's a great bike; I just want to be able to ride
john peck
Well-Known Member
@ 2wheeler: No. I do not have fat rims. It is a 700c commuter. Properly tensioned? Well they've been kept taut & trued the same way I have
always done with my other 5 bikes. If you are asking if I have a manual that specifies the correct tension or a device to measure it, the answer
is no. I was given no specific data for the 'correct' tension, nor do I have a device to measure it,(if such a device exists). In any event, that
would be subjective since a temperature change of 10 degrees will alter spoke tension. At the risk of repeating myself, virtually every bike maker
alternates spokes side to side along the hub rim, and they have done so for well over 100 years for a very good reason. While my 1st issue CCS
has spokes on one side of the hub rim, Juiced has since begun alternating as with other bikes because they know I am right. That's good, and
I applaud their doing so, but that still leaves me with a ruined motor that chops up spokes!
always done with my other 5 bikes. If you are asking if I have a manual that specifies the correct tension or a device to measure it, the answer
is no. I was given no specific data for the 'correct' tension, nor do I have a device to measure it,(if such a device exists). In any event, that
would be subjective since a temperature change of 10 degrees will alter spoke tension. At the risk of repeating myself, virtually every bike maker
alternates spokes side to side along the hub rim, and they have done so for well over 100 years for a very good reason. While my 1st issue CCS
has spokes on one side of the hub rim, Juiced has since begun alternating as with other bikes because they know I am right. That's good, and
I applaud their doing so, but that still leaves me with a ruined motor that chops up spokes!
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erider_61
Well-Known Member
Some good info on wheel building and the basics of lacing options for optimal strength can be found here...
http://www.troubleshooters.com/bicycles/wheelbuilding/index.htm
erider_61
Well-Known Member
You can get 1 for half the price at XTools $41.99 https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/us/en/x-tools-spoke-tension-meter/rp-prod155417
J.R.
Well-Known Member
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The real Park Tool meter is available for $67 to $82. The one thing you get with the PT is information on proper tension for all the various spokes along with a spoke gauge. Their knowledge base is unparalleled when it comes to working on bikes. The Snap On of bike tools. Not everyone will have the need. Inexpensive spoke tension meters can be had for $35.
john peck
Well-Known Member
You know, after the run-around I'm getting from Juiced, I don't care any more. I've built a bike that out performs their's hands down
for a fraction of the cost. I just wasted money on the CCS. If the buyer is expected to meter tension, specifics shudda come with the bike.
After market on the damn thing is just a money pit on a bike that won't last !0K miles anyway. I'm Done! My gas bike may be a little noisy
& produce a relatively miniscule amount of CO2, but it's lighter, faster, more powerful, much greater range, with more terrain & tire
options, & easy to pedal even without power! I'm pretty deaf so the noise don't bother me one damn bit.
P.S. Tension ain't the issue anyway: it's about the wear to the motor that destroys spokes.
for a fraction of the cost. I just wasted money on the CCS. If the buyer is expected to meter tension, specifics shudda come with the bike.
After market on the damn thing is just a money pit on a bike that won't last !0K miles anyway. I'm Done! My gas bike may be a little noisy
& produce a relatively miniscule amount of CO2, but it's lighter, faster, more powerful, much greater range, with more terrain & tire
options, & easy to pedal even without power! I'm pretty deaf so the noise don't bother me one damn bit.
P.S. Tension ain't the issue anyway: it's about the wear to the motor that destroys spokes.
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SirJonathan
Active Member
John - Please clue us in. I'm guessing it's some type of warranty? Perhaps misrepresentation of the power? Inquiring minds want to know....(or at least I do!)
erider_61
Well-Known Member
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John,
Sorry to hear about your spoke (and now hub) issues.
The wear in the flanges pretty clearly is from spoke movement -- not just inward and outward as you have guessed -- but also from side to side as you accelerate and decelerate. The brake disk actually puts a larger twisting effect on the wheel than the motor does. When the hub wants to rotate relative to the rim and your spokes have insufficient tension, they will rub against the flange.
It also appears from your photos that the spokes are breaking at the bend when they come out of the hub flange. The classic reason for this is the J bend flexing as the spokes tension and de-tension, once per revolution of the wheel and even more when you hit a bump. The prevention is 1) to make sure the bend is in full contact with the flange 2) the spoke has enough tension to never fully de-tensions and 3) the spoke has been stress relieved such that if the elbow does flex, it will be less subject to fatigue.
14 gauge spokes should be plenty strong enough to handle the tension you need. Your spokes are breaking because of fatigue, not insufficient tensile strength.
It's hard to see from the photos if your hub flanges still has enough meat to be safe. You have to make that call. I can say, since it has happened to me, that when the hole does open up, the experience is the same as a broken spoke. Your wheel will wobble, but you will get home.
You need to tension the the spokes tight enough so they don't ever go slack. This is hard to do with the off side spokes on a rear wheel. Due to wheel dishing, the drive side spokes have to be VERY tight to allow the off side spokes to be tight enough. As others have pointed out, you really should use a tension gauge for his. If that's not possible, at least ping the spokes of a well-built wheel of the same type to see if the pitch is about the same. This might be tough for you because you're using nonstandard 10 gauge spokes.
Finally, don't neglect to stress relieve the spokes when you're done. Not only will this help with spoke fatigue, it will also help the bend hug the flange closely. You can google how to do this. And if you see the bends are not fitting the hub -- sometimes they are too long -- you might try spoke washers.
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Are you using the same hub motor? My CCS uses a Bafang BFSWX02. Nominally, it's a 500W 48V motor, but lots of DIYers run it at 1000W with 20A controllers. Interestingly, it's also rated at 250W with a 36v controller. These motors have been around for years. They can easily handle the 750 watts or so that I've seen mine running on a hill. The weak point is the clutch. It's stressed more based on maximum torque rather than power. A heavy rider starting up on a steep hill is probably worst case.
I don't think the 650w rating which Juiced assigns is misleading at all.
On the other hand, the clutch on my first motor failed. If it happens again, I may switch to the larger "750W" Bafang hub motor as in the CC-X It's beefier all around.
john peck
Well-Known Member
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Congratulations. That sounds like a great deal. I found the specs on Calibike's Ebay listing -- it wasn't on their website
Did you have to rewire any of the connectors? They do look a lot like Juice's.
The specs says it will take a disk brake. Why are you switching to caliper brakes?
Did you have to rewire any of the connectors? They do look a lot like Juice's.
The specs says it will take a disk brake. Why are you switching to caliper brakes?
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