Kiox300 to Nyon2

[Duke em]

I’ve searched the discussions here and have only found discussions of switching the older Kiox to the older Nyon.

I just got a Cube 140 SL ebike that comes with the Kiox300. Seems many features already available on the older Kiox, are not currently available for use on the new Kiox300.

The Kiox 300, has no navigation on the screen. No ability to upload a navigation file up to the kiox300 display to follow. No ability to connect a heart rate monitor to view on the kiox300 display. It’s very disappointing.

I would like to get the Nyon2 and use that while the kiox300 takes another year to update its features.

Anyone know if the Nyon2 wiring for the handlebar mount is the same wire attachments as for the kiox300? Seems the kiox300 wires into the mount by just unplugging out a female to male connection. I’m hoping it’s the same for Nyon2 and I can just switch it over without having to mess with the wiring.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I’ve searched the discussions here and have only found discussion of switching the older Kiox to the older Nyon.

I just got a Cube 140 SL ebike that comes with the Kiox300. Seems any feature already available on the older Kiox, are not currently available for use on the new Kiox300.

The Kiox 300, has no navigation on the screen. No ability to upload a navigation file up to the kiox300 display to follow. No ability to connect a heart rate monitor to view on the kiox300 display. It’s very disappointing.

I would to get the Nyon2 and use that while the kiox300 takes another year to update its features.

Anyone know if the Nyon2 wiring for the handlebar mount is the same wire attachments as for the kiox300? Seems the kiox300 wires into the mount just unplug out via a female to male connection. I’m hoping it’s the same for Nyon2 and I can just switch it over without having to mess with the wiring.

nope I doubt they are compatible with each other either. that sucks that so little is available with the Kiox that seems typical with bosch. But hell thats how apple does it now too.

 

[ava1ar]

I think Bosch will release new Nyon for their new system 2022 soon, but for now you are stuck with Kiox 300, sorry

 

[fooferdoggie]

I think Bosch will release new Nyon for their new system 2022 soon, but for now you are stuck with Kiox 300, sorry

yep when the system went down they had another nyon listed. but knowing bosch it wont be till next year before you can buy it I bet.

 

[retiredNH]

I suspect Bosch expects you to buy the Smartphone Grip. Just hope it's not the dog that cobi.bike turned out to be...

 

[ava1ar]

I suspect Bosch expects you to buy the Smartphone Grip. Just hope it's not the dog that cobi.bike turned out to be...

The concept of the new system from Bosch is very different that old gen was (even if they look pretty similar). The main difference is that on old system it was single device you have to choose to control everything (Purion, SmartphineHub, Nyon, etc) - they all were self-contained and can't be used together. The new system is done in plugabble way (which is great) - you always have LED remote, which works like a connection point to your bike. So only LED remote is mandatory and everything else you add (like Kiox 300 or Smartphone via SmartphoneGrip) just plugs in into the setup and work like a dashboards for LED remote.

Yes, broken backward compatibility is a pain for users, but so far new system the Bosch building is much better designed and extendable. However it still remains very closed and propriatory - hope Bosch will open it at some extent to 3rd-party developers.

 

[retiredNH]

The concept of the new system from Bosch is very different that old gen was (even if they look pretty similar). The main difference is that on old system it was single device you have to choose to control everything (Purion, SmartphineHub, Nyon, etc) - they all were self-contained and can't be used together. The new system is done in plugabble way (which is great) - you always have LED remote, which works like a connection point to your bike. So only LED remote is mandatory and everything else you add (like Kiox 300 or Smartphone via SmartphoneGrip) just plugs in into the setup and work like a dashboards for LED remote.

Yes, broken backward compatibility is a pain for users, but so far new system the Bosch building is much better designed and extendable. However it still remains very closed and propriatory - hope Bosch will open it at some extent to 3rd-party developers.

I don't see such a huge difference. It's more like they've lowered the cost for OEM (bike manufacturers) even more since all they need to spec is the LED Remote and leave it up to the consumer to buy a readout.
Much better designed? Extendable? We'll see.

 

[ava1ar]

I don't see such a huge difference. It's more like they've lowered the cost for OEM (bike manufacturers) even more since all they need to spec is the LED Remote and leave it up to the consumer to buy a readout.
Much better designed? Extendable? We'll see.

Difference is huge and in its core - there is no "brain" in Kiox 300 or Smartphone Hub/Cage anymore, so connectivity and wiring is much simpler (LED Remote is one mandatory component to be pre-installed on all bikes). Basically it is a bit closer to the Specialized concept, where you have main unit built-in into frame and can have optional screen which plugs-in. Installation is also much-much easier now (can be done 100% by users) and main unit between Kiox 300 and SmartphoneGrip are same. Honestly this is the setup I really wanted when getting SmartphoneHub on C380+ instead of Purion, but it never worked as expected, so I had to upgrade to Nyon (best what Bosch can offer for older gen bikes).

This is the huge difference here and solves the root cause why Smartphone Hub failed: it was completely independent from Bosch other devices and software. Basically there were two separate code bases in their displays and in SmartphoneHub, which is huge waste of resources and ended up one of them was killed. New setup is much more unified and should be much easier to extend! Potentially we don't even need a Nyon for new platform, if they put all the functionality into the app, so LED Remote + Smartphone Cage will provide same functionality. Let's see where this all goes, but so fat it is very promising.

Check out this video:

.

You are familiar with SmartphoneHub and can see how much the setup process simpler and can be done completely by end-user.

P.S. And there is a wireless charger for the phone built-in this time. Bosch really learning, not that fast as we all want, but still!

 

[retiredNH]

Difference is huge and in its code - there is no "brain" in Kiox 300 or Smartphone Hub/Cage anymore, so connectivity and wiring is much simpler (LED Remote is one mandatory component to be pre-installed on all bikes). Basically it is a bit closer to the Specialized concept, where you have main unit built-in into frame and can have optional screen which plugs-in. Installation is also much-much easier now (can be done 100% by users) and main unit between Kiox 300 and SmartphoneGrip are same. Honestly this is the setup I really wanted when getting SmartphoneHub on C380+ instead of Purion, but it never worked as expected, so I had to upgrade to Nyon (best what Bosch can offer for older gen bikes).

Check out this video:

. You are familiar with SmartphoneHub and can see how much the setup process simpler and can be done completely by end-user.

There wasn't a "brain" in Purion or old smartphone hub either. That's why the purion did nothing but show readouts from the controller/DU. Sounds like the new Kiox 300 is a glorified Purion. The old smartphone hub depended on your smartphone and cobi.bike to do any analysis or navigation, no different from the new system as far as I can see.
Will this be better for consumers? We'll just need to wait and see. So far, it looks like a step sideways - the entry level device, and next step up both offer very limited functionality.

 

[ava1ar]

There wasn't a "brain" in Purion or old smartphone hub either. That's why the purion did nothing but show readouts from the controller/DU.

There was! You can even find a port for firmware update on the Purion. All displays/controllers for old system were independent and all of them had to know how to deal with motor and control everything about it.

Sounds like the new Kiox 300 is a glorified Purion.

LED remote is "glorified" Purion with ability to plug other things in. Kiox300 is just a display. It provides functionality and look similar to older Kiox, but they are completely different about how they work!

The old smartphone hub depended on your smartphone and cobi.bike to do any analysis or navigation, no different from the new system as far as I can see.

Yes, but again, old hub has to have functionality to do motor control + it had completely separate app, nor really made by Bosch. New one is a just a smartphone holder/charger (even wiring into it probably pass-through to the LED Remote + power connectivity to phone charger). No brain there - much simpler and pretty much no need to update. Most work will be done in app, which means (potentially) more functionality and better support.

Will this be better for consumers? We'll just need to wait and see. So far, it looks like a step sideways - the entry level device, and next step up both offer very limited functionality.

Yes, let's see. This is not step sideways - this is just completely different architecture with plug-able design. And I don't agree with "limited functionality" - what we already have pretty much on pair with Kiox and SmartphoneHub. The only remaining thing left is Nyon and I am sure we will see the analog soon. And after this new platform will just get better and we will have to stay on the older one forever unfortunately (basically till getting new bike)...

 

[retiredNH]

ava1ar, do you really understand how these things work? Do you realize that even the simplest display needs to have a "brain" in your way of thinking (those of us with electronics backgrounds call them "microcontrollers" or "microprocessors") in order to control the display and decode the signals on the data lines? Or that the old hub had a remote that handled the motor?
Not worth any further discussion on my part though. I don't think you're bringing any unique insight to the table, are you?

 

[ava1ar]

ava1ar, do you really understand how these things work? Do you realize that even the simplest display needs to have a "brain" in your way of thinking (those of us with electronics backgrounds call them "microcontrollers" or "microprocessors") in order to control the display and decode the signals on the data lines? Or that the old hub had a remote that handled the motor?

Yes, I do understand how they are working and then I am talking about the "brain" here I mean thousands of lines of code to control the motor and all the connected peripherals. Those of you with electronics background need to realize that microcontrollers and microprocessors are nothing without the software controlling them and implementing all the logic and behavior. Those of us with software development background call it "firmware" and "embedded software". So my point is that now the main piece of software that control the ebike (what I refereed as "brain" above) is only in LED remote now and all other parts needs to have very basic "microcontrollers" to do their job (just to display stuff from main unit basically). It was completely different before when SmartphoneHub had everything in it (interface with phone, interface with remote, interface with motor, interface with lights, etc - all of this requires lots of code to be written and supported, not even mentioning the phone app itself with another huge codebase). So these are two completely different products even they looks the same - this is the point I am trying to explain here.

Not worth any further discussion on my part though. I don't think you're bringing any unique insight to the table, are you?

Sorry, but you don't bring anything to the table at all. All the discussion you are joining you are sharing the same story about bad SmartphoneHub, how you was betrayed by Bosch when they decide not to develop it anymore and how bad is everything they do is. Feel free to leave the discussion any time.

 

[Stephen - Bosch Team]

There wasn't a "brain" in Purion or old smartphone hub either. That's why the purion did nothing but show readouts from the controller/DU. Sounds like the new Kiox 300 is a glorified Purion. The old smartphone hub depended on your smartphone and cobi.bike to do any analysis or navigation, no different from the new system as far as I can see.
Will this be better for consumers? We'll just need to wait and see. So far, it looks like a step sideways - the entry level device, and next step up both offer very limited functionality.

The Kiox 300 will share a lot of similar graphics and data to the current Kiox. It is much, much more than a Purion.

 

[ava1ar]

The Kiox 300 will share a lot of similar graphics and data to the current Kiox. It is much, much more than a Purion.

Stephen, any plans for something Nyon-level for the smart system? I think feature-wise, Nyon still beats everything smart system offers.

 

[Stephen - Bosch Team]

I don't see such a huge difference. It's more like they've lowered the cost for OEM (bike manufacturers) even more since all they need to spec is the LED Remote and leave it up to the consumer to buy a readout.
Much better designed? Extendable? We'll see.

The intention is multi-fold. Surely, to your point on price, an eBike spec'd form an OEM with just the LED remote may offer the end consumer a lower-priced entry on the Bosch system at their dealer.

The main intention is to answer market demand that many riders do not care for the graphics or information a display offers. With tool-free wiring, this will allow a consumer to own multiple displays on their eBike. Imagine having the Kiox 300 in it's one-arm mount that you can install for weekend rides while then switching back to your Smartphone Grip for mid-week grocery runs. Versatility is the real answer here. With a 2.5mm allen wrench a rider has more flexibility with their eBike. Since all displays, the Smartphone Grip and Kiox 300 will run through the eBike Flow app, there will be a lot of opportunity.

 

[Stephen - Bosch Team]

Stephen, any plans for something Nyon-level for the smart system? I think feature-wise, Nyon still beats everything smart system offers.

I'll answer it with my favorite phrase in the bike industry, "there's nothing we're not working on."