Just got the ultra eagle - getting used to the midrive?

[Man Without Shadow]

I doubt one inch matters much...but TIRE + RIM = WHEEL. Mine was 27 in my settings. The part of the WHEEL that touches the pavement is 27.5". So you want to measure those revolutions for accurate distance traveled. It counts how often it goes around X tire circumference = DISTANCE.

I haven't changed much on mine. I ride 80% on PAS 1...like I wrote the other day...put it on 9 PAS on a flat trail just so I could Superman pedal at 30mph for a while. Put it on 2 or 3 if want a small kick.

 

[330rcs]

I doubt one inch matters much...but TIRE + RIM = WHEEL. Mine was 27 in my settings. The part of the WHEEL that touches the pavement is 27.5". So you want to measure those revolutions for accurate distance traveled. It counts how often it goes around X tire circumference = DISTANCE.

I haven't changed much on mine. I ride 80% on PAS 1...like I wrote the other day...put it on 9 PAS on a flat trail just so I could Superman pedal at 30mph for a while. Put it on 2 or 3 if want a small kick.

This was the reply from Biktrix

"You can change the wheel size to 27 here but it actually doesn't matter because the speed sensor data is handled by the display and the display needs to have the proper wheel size set on it (or the closest size of the actual wheel)".

About to go take the bike out shortly with the new settings to see how it does.

 

[330rcs]

I just went around the block its so freaking AWESOME now!!!! Appreciate all the help here (no thanks to a couple with their useless commentary). The bike rides so freaking SMOOTH it rides like my rear hub now but much easier to manaeuver and of course way more power!!

The updated PAS settings are so much better. In Level 1 I can comfortably pedal while still maintaining speed and range and when I hit level 2 I felt like I was flying even though PAS is there is only set at 60, I don't need to go to 100 pas at all.

Only thing I'm going to adjust is the throttle I have it set to start at 1% and ramp up. I'm going to try 5 and 10. But it feels so much safer now that it's set at current (gradual increase in speed) vs if you slam the throttle going to wheelie. I also turned down the throttle level from 9 to 6. In Biktrix documentation it mentioned that if it's at 9 (Default) that you can fry your controller if you're on a steep hill in too high of a gear and peg your throttle and is only for advanced cyclists that know how to change gears. So I'm going to take it easy on that brought it down to 6 because I just use it for a slight boost from take off or slowing down too much on a steep hill after that I let the assist carry me.

I only went around the block but I am so happy with it now from where I started. I was just not used to that gear sensor at all and it's so much funner backing off for a split second manually and start pedaling and you feel an instant boost. Then the default throttle settings was a pain in the ass and then the lack of assist. I'm so glad that we are able to program these settings according to our riding styles.

I guess theres not going to be much more if anything else for me to update. Going to test the throttle settings a bit more to get it dialed in to my liking and that's it. Again appreciate all the help here. There was no way I was going to get "used" to this bike with its default settings out the box. I was pissed and I was going to return it or sell it. So again I appreciate everybody's helpful feedback here. Thanks again!!!!!

 

[Man Without Shadow]

Can you screen shot your new settings please?

Thanks!

 

[TForan]

So glad you're now happy with your bike !

 

[330rcs]

Can you screen shot your new settings please?

Thanks!

Sure!

Like I said only thing Im going to play with is the start current % on the throttle settings so that the throttle can kick in with a touch more power but also still being safe on the drivetrain. But Im really happy with PAS just the way it is but its really awesome how we can fine tune and dial it in to our own perfection maybe in the future I will want to try different settings perhaps if I get bored with current settings but I doubt it!!

 

[lordnox09]

I just went around the block its so freaking AWESOME now!!!! Appreciate all the help here (no thanks to a couple with their useless commentary). The bike rides so freaking SMOOTH it rides like my rear hub now but much easier to manaeuver and of course way more power!!

The updated PAS settings are so much better. In Level 1 I can comfortably pedal while still maintaining speed and range and when I hit level 2 I felt like I was flying even though PAS is there is only set at 60, I don't need to go to 100 pas at all.

Only thing I'm going to adjust is the throttle I have it set to start at 1% and ramp up. I'm going to try 5 and 10. But it feels so much safer now that it's set at current (gradual increase in speed) vs if you slam the throttle going to wheelie. I also turned down the throttle level from 9 to 6. In Biktrix documentation it mentioned that if it's at 9 (Default) that you can fry your controller if you're on a steep hill in too high of a gear and peg your throttle and is only for advanced cyclists that know how to change gears. So I'm going to take it easy on that brought it down to 6 because I just use it for a slight boost from take off or slowing down too much on a steep hill after that I let the assist carry me.

I only went around the block but I am so happy with it now from where I started. I was just not used to that gear sensor at all and it's so much funner backing off for a split second manually and start pedaling and you feel an instant boost. Then the default throttle settings was a pain in the ass and then the lack of assist. I'm so glad that we are able to program these settings according to our riding styles.

I guess theres not going to be much more if anything else for me to update. Going to test the throttle settings a bit more to get it dialed in to my liking and that's it. Again appreciate all the help here. There was no way I was going to get "used" to this bike with its default settings out the box. I was pissed and I was going to return it or sell it. So again I appreciate everybody's helpful feedback here. Thanks again!!!!!

Glad you got it all set to your liking in the end that's all that matters I think it's amazing the amount that the motor can be changed to each individual you just can't beat this motor makes me happier everytime I see someone else as satisfied as I am

 

[Bigjerk43]

Idk I have had this eagle for a few months now and absolutely love it....it is truly a beast.....

 

[Deafcat]

wheel size in display is for speed calculation, it's the measured height (diameter) of the rear tire on rim (usually between 28" and 30" on 27.5+/26 fat/29).

on some other controls (the Cycle Analyst is one example) it's input in circumference rather than diameter.

 

[330rcs]

Ok I made a couple more changes in the programming.

- I increased assist level 5 to 100 and also increased level 4 but kept level 3 and below same incase I need range.

In the assist tab:

"Startup Dgree(Signal No.): Determines how soon the assist kicks in. 24 a full revolution. We recommend setting this between 2-4. 2 will provide assist right away (30 deg pedal stroke), 4 will provide the assist after approx 60degree pedal stroke."

I changed the above startup degree to 2. The default was 4. The assist kicks in quicker more like my rear hub. I liked this update.

So today I finally got a chance to go out for a long ride. Couple things I wanted to clarify. How do you guys know how much battery power you have left? When I came down to 20% just a moment later all of a sudden I drop down to 5% and then couple minutes later I went to 0%. Luckily the bike is way lighter than my fat tire rear hub so I just rode it back without power lol why does it drop from 20% to 0% right away? Is this normal?

When I was at 60% I lost all power suddenly when I was riding and had to power back up. I have lost power before too. I need to contact support about this what's the deal? When I say all power I mean including the display shut off. However later when I was at 0% I did not lose power on the display only throttle and assist.

Lastly the assist works different on mid drive and rear hub doesn't it? The rear hub will assist you up to 28 mph with pretty much casual pedaling. However the assist on mid drive seems to act more like a boost of throttle right? Because I can stay around low 20s with pedaling but my rear hub seems to hold the assist level. I feel like on the mid drive I have to give it way more rpm (pedal rotations) to pick up speed. This might be a setting as well in the programming how quickly the assist ramps up. I'll have to mess around with this.

I am now just trying to just stay off the gears yesterday I started getting kinda crazy like I do with my rear hub but I quickly found out once I dropped the chain on my cassette a few times that I need to chill out on it. So today I mostly stayed in the highest gear and if there was a hill I only dropped down 2 to maybe 3 gears. No more than that like I was doing before going all the way down like with my rear hub. My rear hub is much heavier so that's the reason I'm used to gearing down so low.

 

[Man Without Shadow]

It has a torque sensor vs cadence sensor...responds to how hard you push on the pedals. Many say it feels just like you have really strong legs...

 

[330rcs]

It has a torque sensor vs cadence sensor...responds to how hard you push on the pedals. Many say it feels just like you have really strong legs...

Oh ok my rear hub has both torque and cadence sensor. Maybe thats the reason I am just not getting the same feel for it no matter what I try. I guess this bike isn't really for me. I'll keep riding it for now but I'm pretty sure I'm going to sell it and get another rear hub with a torque and cadence sensor. I gave it a shot and I keep trying and I thought I was sold on it during my quick rides around the block but when I went on my longer ride it doesn't feel the same and when I got tired it was obvious it doesn't carry/assist me like my rear hub. My 750w fat tire rear hub honestly feels like it has more power and I don't understand how that's possible being 1500w motor but how are you supposed to rely only on torque sensor only? What if you get tired? How are you supposed to push hard on the pedals? They expect you to keep pushing hard after 20 miles? You just have to coast on the throttle.

Being that this bike is $4k why doesn't it have both torque and cadence sensor? That must also be the reason that I'm always gearing down on my rear hub to start pedaling quickly to pickup the cadence sensor to get my assist going then I gear up for the top speed. I also have bad habits as far as changing gears I noticed the other day on my rear hub I will change gears while holding down the throttle. Which is obviously a no-go on mid drive. Maybe if I had started with a mid drive instead of a rear hub I would have a different riding style/perspective.

It's whatever, I tried and nothing against the bike it's a beast and it's my first time riding a bike with high end components and a front shock (rockshox) that actually works lol its definately a smoother ride. I just prefer the rear hub, but I want one with higher end components. The Juiced Bike just uses a knock off shock that doesn't even work. Today I hit a big curb on the Eagle and it went right over the curb I thought I was going to crash. The other day I hit a huge curb with my rear hub and had to take it to the shop because I bent the wheel.

 

[lordnox09]

I don't have a cable myself but I think I seen something about you can change the tourqe required for the engagement can't remember exactly what it was called but you may be able to lower the amount of sustained tourqe required

 

[linklemming]

It has a torque sensor vs cadence sensor...responds to how hard you push on the pedals. Many say it feels just like you have really strong legs...

It has both torque and cadence sensor.

 

[330rcs]

I don't have a cable myself but I think I seen something about you can change the tourqe required for the engagement can't remember exactly what it was called but you may be able to lower the amount of sustained tourqe required

Think I saw that let me mess around with it. I also wonder if I should go up to a 50t chainring since I'm so used to 52t and now I'm all the way down to a 44t. It feels a little funny like Im trying too hard to spin the pedals to go if that makes any sense. I should be ok if I lose some torque right? I mean it can wheelie in low enough gear as it is.

 

[linklemming]

330rcs,

Just sent you a PM. If your decide to get ride of the ultra eagle, let me know.

I would actually like a more offroad alternative to my Juiced CCX (with MTB tires). I own both the hub drive CCX and two brose mid-drives.

 

[330rcs]

330rcs,

Just sent you a PM. If your decide to get ride of the ultra eagle, let me know.

I would actually like a more offroad alternative to my Juiced CCX (with MTB tires). I own both the hub drive CCX and two brose mid-drives.

Appreciate it I will give it another week or so. It's a love/hate relationship right now lol I keep trying and taking it out trying to figure it out to suit my riding style

 

[330rcs]

So far I updated the assist settings again. I didn't take a screenshot of the after settings but I can get it later. I adjusted the settings for how quickly the assist ramps up and how long the motor runs after you stop pedaling.

I probably rode around 5-7 miles and so far I feel pleased with the assist settings. I don't think I'd want to increase it anymore it feels smooth and powerful. Went up a couple sharp steep hills I didn't need to get on the throttle the assist carried me up like butter.

Of course it doesn't keep me up at 28 mph with comfortable pedaling like the rear hub does. I fall down to low 20s so I stay on the throttle more when I'm tired and then when I rest I go at it again. But it's ok, this isn't a rear hub so it's not going to ride the same. Its still fun and powerful in its own way.

Only thing is that I keep dropping the chain on the cassette when I try to gear up to the highest gear and I'm taking my time and pausing between shifts but maybe I already messed it up by not switching properly (I know people told me) but now that all my throttle and assist settings are setup properly I might try to connect the shift sensor back and see how it goes plus now I know I don't need to gear down so low like I was before. Just 4 down from the highest is all I need but first I think I need to take it to the shop so they can tell me if I screwed up anything. It's all a learning experience to me, trial and error so I don't really care just trying to figure it out to suit my riding style. It's only falling off during the shift to the highest gear not any other gear. Maybe I messed up a link or a tooth on the cassette.

 

[Deafcat]

So today I finally got a chance to go out for a long ride. Couple things I wanted to clarify. How do you guys know how much battery power you have left? When I came down to 20% just a moment later all of a sudden I drop down to 5% and then couple minutes later I went to 0%. Luckily the bike is way lighter than my fat tire rear hub so I just rode it back without power lol why does it drop from 20% to 0% right away? Is this normal?

When I was at 60% I lost all power suddenly when I was riding and had to power back up. I have lost power before too. I need to contact support about this what's the deal? When I say all power I mean including the display shut off. However later when I was at 0% I did not lose power on the display only throttle and assist.

Lastly the assist works different on mid drive and rear hub doesn't it? The rear hub will assist you up to 28 mph with pretty much casual pedaling. However the assist on mid drive seems to act more like a boost of throttle right? Because I can stay around low 20s with pedaling but my rear hub seems to hold the assist level. I feel like on the mid drive I have to give it way more rpm (pedal rotations) to pick up speed. This might be a setting as well in the programming how quickly the assist ramps up. I'll have to mess around with this.

On the battery level topic: I honestly recommend just using Battery Voltage instead of Percent. It's a more honest reading, will take you a bit to get used to it, but it's a proper look at charge level. You can swap between either option right inside the display settings, typically.


As for the assist difference between mid-drive and hub motor: Biggest difference is that a hub motor has to output power over the full range of rear-wheel RPM, 1:1 relationship, and this is why hub motors are only really efficient when their winding, RPM/V, wheel/tire size and average riding speed are all in their respective sweetspot in relation to each other. Peak speed is quite easy to calculate, and at what loss of efficiency, the same applies to low speed inefficiency with hubs. Geared hubs introduce a fixed reduction ratio, but otherwise mostly follow the same rules.

With mid-drives, you can alter the equation through chainring and cassette sprocket selection, and with the Bafang Ultra, it's a very easy equation to figure out, since the Ultra is designed for it's peak efficiency output at normal rider cadence. This corresponds to about 60 RPM (1 revolution per second) at the bottom bracket. At this output speed, or anything up to 100+ rpm, the Ultra motor is very happy and efficient, and so is the rider... It was designed to be this way, and it tells you a lot about the great engineering team that conceived this motor.

Thus, to get your preferred riding speeds, you need only pick the right chainring and cassette range to get what you want out of the bike. If you're a street demon who likes to match speed with city traffic, a big chainring and tall cassette are nice... For most riding, a middle/upper sized chainring with the stock cassette range does great. For more trail/climb oriented riding, a medium/smaller chainring works wonders. It's worth noting for any calculation, you will never have smaller than an 11 tooth "high" sprocket, this is the smallest possible cassette sprocket on a Hyperglide (HG) Hub Spline, the stock format (and best format for ebikes).

 

[330rcs]

On the battery level topic: I honestly recommend just using Battery Voltage instead of Percent. It's a more honest reading, will take you a bit to get used to it, but it's a proper look at charge level. You can swap between either option right inside the display settings, typically.


As for the assist difference between mid-drive and hub motor: Biggest difference is that a hub motor has to output power over the full range of rear-wheel RPM, 1:1 relationship, and this is why hub motors are only really efficient when their winding, RPM/V, wheel/tire size and average riding speed are all in their respective sweetspot in relation to each other. Peak speed is quite easy to calculate, and at what loss of efficiency, the same applies to low speed inefficiency with hubs. Geared hubs introduce a fixed reduction ratio, but otherwise mostly follow the same rules.

With mid-drives, you can alter the equation through chainring and cassette sprocket selection, and with the Bafang Ultra, it's a very easy equation to figure out, since the Ultra is designed for it's peak efficiency output at normal rider cadence. This corresponds to about 60 RPM (1 revolution per second) at the bottom bracket. At this output speed, or anything up to 100+ rpm, the Ultra motor is very happy and efficient, and so is the rider... It was designed to be this way, and it tells you a lot about the great engineering team that conceived this motor.

Thus, to get your preferred riding speeds, you need only pick the right chainring and cassette range to get what you want out of the bike. If you're a street demon who likes to match speed with city traffic, a big chainring and tall cassette are nice... For most riding, a middle/upper sized chainring with the stock cassette range does great. For more trail/climb oriented riding, a medium/smaller chainring works wonders. It's worth noting for any calculation, you will never have smaller than an 11 tooth "high" sprocket, this is the smallest possible cassette sprocket on a Hyperglide (HG) Hub Spline, the stock format (and best format for ebikes).

Appreciate all the detailed info. Can you confirm if a 50t wolftooth chainring will fit on this bike and do I need to change the cassette too? I would like to see the difference with the bigger chainring.

This is the chainring I would like to get:

110 BCD Gravel / CX / Road Chainrings

110 BCD 1x chainring sprocket gravel cyclocross cx road wide narrow wolf tooth drop stop

www.wolftoothcomponents.com