Juiced Bikes 40 mph!!

[Chris Hammond]

FWIW, my Juiced CCS came with 180mm hydraulic discs front and rear. The bike weighs 65+#'s, me and my gear is about 195#, I routinely ride at 30 mph. I have never felt like the brakes weren't up to the job. I just changed the pads front and rear at 3900 miles. If I felt like the brakes weren't adequate, I'd put a 203mm rotor on the front, but I just haven't seen the need.

 

[hurricane56]

FWIW, my Juiced CCS came with 180mm hydraulic discs front and rear. The bike weighs 65+#'s, me and my gear is about 195#, I routinely ride at 30 mph. I have never felt like the brakes weren't up to the job. I just changed the pads front and rear at 3900 miles. If I felt like the brakes weren't adequate, I'd put a 203mm rotor on the front, but I just haven't seen the need.

I think the stock Tektro brakes and 180mm rotors are up the task. However, I was never really keen on how the initial “bite” was not aggressive enough compared to the Magura MT5 brakes on my other bike. This is probably personal preference. I went through the rear set of pads in less than a year and replaced them with the newer red color high performance Tektro pad which is a bit better.

As for the rotor size, I realized that I needed every bit of stopping power on the HF1000 and did 203mm rotors on front and rear. Most riders won’t need a 203mm rear rotor as a 180mm rotor will lock up the rear wheel just fine.

 

[Nutella]

Ah, another "But it has pedals, so it's an ebike" fantasy. The ebike laws that gave us the ability to ride them where bikes can go, clearly define what an ebike is, and the Hyperfat is not one. They're free to sell them, and people can ride them on the road, but stay off of the bike paths or the few bad apples will sour it for everyone. People only remember the assholes they encounter, they don't even notice the considerate riders out there.

 

[Chancelucky2]

I personally never ride much over 20 mph unless I'm going downhill. My BMW Cruise power assist is limited to 20 and the limit doesn't bother me. I also agree with the safety concerns expressed here about 40 mph bikes.

That said, technology only seems to improve when people try to push the envelope. I've never wanted a 200 mph sports car, but a lot of the innovations in that realm wound up improving regular sedans. I suspect the production of high speed e-bikes will result in the same for those of us who pedal around at under 15 mph most of the time.

 

[krdugger]

We are all worried about freedom of eBikes being restricted due to misuse and negligent riding. However, I don't blame juiced for providing a fast (not street legal) eBike if that's what people want. Honestly, 28mph is enough for me, but we shouldn't get mad if people want to go faster. As long as they don't endanger others, I'm all for it. You should be allowed to risk your own life, and we need to stop overreacting when darwinism rears it's head in the shape of a few lethal accidents. We need to stop legislating personal safety.

 

[AHicks]

The bigger issue is it's not just Darwinism when they take out others as well. If we could guarantee it would be a solo event, I would care about it a whole lot less...

Even if they crash and end up being run over several times in busy traffic, though nobody else may be bleeding, you're going to have a tough time convincing me others haven't been affected in a very negative way.

 

[Feliz]

It's not only Juiced, I notice a few smaller sellers putting out bikes now that allow the owner to program in any speed or motor wattage that they wish to. One even has a video showing how to do it and puts in 99 mph and then says it will never go that fast. All the forums have more and more threads in which speed is the topic. There's also a lot of videos out showing people running ridiculous speeds.

Plus anyone can buy software, chips, and instructions for the purpose of increasing speed on eBikes.

 

[rich c]

Is it legal to ride an ebike that's capable of going over the limit but if it's self-regulated as "off road" only?

I think it's a grey area?

Have you seen Jay Leno's Garage?
Watch @3:10

No it's not legal on the street if sold as off road only. But if you don't care about legalities, then ride. It's not legal to drive a car without insurance in Illinois. But my wife was hit by an uninsured driver 3 weeks ago. The law didn't stop her! Costing us the deductible of $500 for just sitting on the street at a stoplight. When someone breaks the law, innocent people will have to pay.

 

[Feliz]

Is it legal to ride an ebike that's capable of going over the limit but if it's self-regulated as "off road" only?

I think it's a grey area?

Have you seen Jay Leno's Garage?
Watch @3:10

Great video, thanks. Got to love Jay

 

[Feliz]

It's not legal of course but once someone starts it and gets attention the rest will do it to stay competitive. Personally I'm 80 and don't care how fast I go only if I can go up hills. 50 or 60 years ago I would have cared though.

 

[joshuaho96]

The speed is not strictly legal but it is possible to be responsible with the power.

On bike/ped paths I would say you're insane if you actually try to go for top speed. Even in a class 3 bike the opportunity to get up to top speed in those situations is just about never. On wide bike paths with long sight lines you can get up to the low 20s, about 25 mph max if nobody is in sight and you can clearly see far enough to stop in time. When the path gets busy with people walking/jogging passing with any more than ~3-5 mph speed differential is really begging for trouble.

On sidewalks you can basically never get past 15 mph. Max speed for passing is basically 3-5 mph instead of a 3-5 mph differential, most sidewalks are relatively narrow.

On roads when running with cars that's really when you want the speed. 30 mph is about right for residential roads to not obstruct car traffic. If you find that you have to take the lane, going 20 mph is a good way to get honked at and buzzed with very little room to spare as people will pass with oncoming traffic. People in cars are going to choose their lives over yours. If they have to choose between hitting an oncoming car and sideswiping you, they will sideswipe you every time. You will get run off the road.

On main roads speed limits are 40 mph. If you go 35-40 mph you will be ok. Going much slower is really asking for trouble if there's no bike lane even on a multi-lane road.

And hub motors really need the extra power to maintain parity with mid-drives when doing hill climbs/getting loaded down. 1800W peak from this HF1100 feels like a lot less torque than a 750W BBS02 with gearing reduction.

 

[rich c]

The speed is not strictly legal but it is possible to be responsible with the power.

On bike/ped paths I would say you're insane if you actually try to go for top speed. Even in a class 3 bike the opportunity to get up to top speed in those situations is just about never. On wide bike paths with long sight lines you can get up to the low 20s, about 25 mph max if nobody is in sight and you can clearly see far enough to stop in time. When the path gets busy with people walking/jogging passing with any more than ~3-5 mph speed differential is really begging for trouble.

On sidewalks you can basically never get past 15 mph. Max speed for passing is basically 3-5 mph instead of a 3-5 mph differential, most sidewalks are relatively narrow.

On roads when running with cars that's really when you want the speed. 30 mph is about right for residential roads to not obstruct car traffic. If you find that you have to take the lane, going 20 mph is a good way to get honked at and buzzed with very little room to spare as people will pass with oncoming traffic. People in cars are going to choose their lives over yours. If they have to choose between hitting an oncoming car and sideswiping you, they will sideswipe you every time. You will get run off the road.

On main roads speed limits are 40 mph. If you go 35-40 mph you will be ok. Going much slower is really asking for trouble if there's no bike lane even on a multi-lane road.

And hub motors really need the extra power to maintain parity with mid-drives when doing hill climbs/getting loaded down. 1800W peak from this HF1100 feels like a lot less torque than a 750W BBS02 with gearing reduction.

Curious why you imply that 40mph on a bicycle "its not strictly legal"? It either is or isn't, right? And from what I read about Illinois, you are not a bicycle when you go 40mph. In some states or municipalities, it's illegal to ride on sidewalks at all. I'd also love to see cars only going 30mph in a 30mph zone. On so many of the streets I ride, they drive 40 in a 30 zone. On main roads, it's at least 10-15mph over the limit. So you would have to ride at least 50mph in a 40 zone to match the cars. Matching car speed is not at all my concern, it's distracted driving the scares the hell out of me. We've been rear ended twice in the same car, in 1 1/2 years, by distracted drivers while we sat at a stop light. Saw a rear end accident yesterday, and the officer was looking at the girls phone. Checking for time line on texts I'm certain! I believe the safety of speed matching traffic is being used to justify breaking the law, when it's not the major cause of accidents. I don't put much validity in that argument. Here's just a few statistics;

• The National Safety Council reports that cell phone use while driving leads to 1.6 million crashes each year.
• Nearly 390,000 injuries occur each year from accidents caused by texting while driving.
• 1 out of every 4 car accidents in the United States is caused by texting and driving.

 

[joshuaho96]

Curious why you imply that 40mph on a bicycle "its not strictly legal"? It either is or isn't, right? And from what I read about Illinois, you are not a bicycle when you go 40mph. In some states or municipalities, it's illegal to ride on sidewalks at all. I'd also love to see cars only going 30mph in a 30mph zone. On so many of the streets I ride, they drive 40 in a 30 zone. On main roads, it's at least 10-15mph over the limit. So you would have to ride at least 50mph in a 40 zone to match the cars. Matching car speed is not at all my concern, it's distracted driving the scares the hell out of me. We've been rear ended twice in the same car, in 1 1/2 years, by distracted drivers while we sat at a stop light. Saw a rear end accident yesterday, and the officer was looking at the girls phone. Checking for time line on texts I'm certain! I believe the safety of speed matching traffic is being used to justify breaking the law, when it's not the major cause of accidents. I don't put much validity in that argument. Here's just a few statistics;

• The National Safety Council reports that cell phone use while driving leads to 1.6 million crashes each year.
• Nearly 390,000 injuries occur each year from accidents caused by texting while driving.
• 1 out of every 4 car accidents in the United States is caused by texting and driving.

When I refer to a 30 zone, I really mean the posted limit is 25 but people go about 30. Some outliers going 35 but that's rare. Main roads are 35 or 40 posted limit. Traffic goes anywhere from 40 to 45. 50 mph is rare unless the roads are wide and sightlines are long. At that point though you usually don't need to worry about keeping up with car traffic because those kinds of roads usually have bike lanes.

40 mph on a bike on paper isn't legal but whether police will bother to pull you over is another question entirely in many places. If you're wearing appropriate safety gear and you ride safely cops in bigger cities have more important things to worry about. In the SF Bay Area you have people taking full-on dirt bikes that are 100% not street legal on the street and ripping wheelies with straight pipes and people blocking bridges during commute hours to do donuts in their car. A guy riding an electric bike at 35-40 mph on the street to the store to grab a drink and some snacks is really not on the radar.

Distracted driving is a big problem yes, and that's why reducing speed differential improves safety. If you're counting on the car behind you to not rear-end you, a 10 mph speed differential buys you more time to see that the car behind you won't stop vs a 20 mph speed differential. A distracted driver will also have more time to react in this scenario. At a dead stop if you're on a bike you're probably on the shoulder or between cars, the chances of getting hit in that situation is reduced.

When you're riding a bike the biggest concern is getting doored or getting t-boned by a car pulling out. Just below that the biggest concern is getting sideswiped by a car making a right turn. All of these things become less of a problem when you can confidently take the lane.

I do think that 40 mph is the limit of what an "ebike" should be. Taking a fall at 15 mph with normal clothing and a helmet will hurt for sure but you'll recover. Taking a fall at 40 mph with normal clothing + helmet is a good way to have doctors picking melted clothes and rocks out of your skin. Even class 3 bikes really should be the point where you start gearing up like a motorcycle.

I also don't recommend biking on the sidewalk, but sometimes it makes sense. If you're going 5-10 mph for whatever reason (dead battery, heavy bike, etc...) you're going to pose a danger to both bicyclists that are actually going a decent speed in bike lanes and cars that have to anticipate your presence. You have to be extra careful of cars pulling out of parking lots/garages/whatever and you need to basically come to a complete stop at every intersection to check for oncoming traffic but it can be an option depending on how strongly your local police goes after bikes on sidewalks. It's entirely possible to bike in a way that is not actively anti-social on a sidewalk, you just need to accept that you will have to slow down to 2-3 mph quite often. On an ebike this is no big deal considering that it doesn't take nearly as much effort to get going again compared to a normal bike.

 

[rich c]

Just thinking that if I'm riding 40mph on a bicycle, I won't be spending my time looking in the mirror for that distracted driver coming at me. Where would I go anyway? Jump a curb at 40? I'll be watching for pot holes, expansion strips, storm sewer drains and varying heights of pavement to curbing. With the vibrations on the bike, mirror reading and estimating car closing speed will be a daunting task.

 

[joshuaho96]

Just thinking that if I'm riding 40mph on a bicycle, I won't be spending my time looking in the mirror for that distracted driver coming at me. Where would I go anyway? Jump a curb at 40? I'll be watching for pot holes, expansion strips, storm sewer drains and varying heights of pavement to curbing. With the vibrations on the bike, mirror reading and estimating car closing speed will be a daunting task.

With a fat bike you can take giant potholes and sewer drains no problem. Obviously if you're going 40 mph on a road bike it's going to be a really bad time between the complete lack of suspension and floss-width tires. I've done 32 mph on a Luna folding bike and that was much more of a white knuckle experience than the HF1100.

 

[rich c]

The CCX is capable of breaking 28mph barrier, yet it advertise itself as "ULTIMATE COMMUTER BIKE" https://www.juicedbikes.com/
So obviously, the CCX was intended to be ridden on the road. But is it illegal to ride CCX on the road? What if it's in self governed mode? (Class 1, 2, 3)

In IL 30mph seems to be a split point. Below 30 you could be considered a moped and requirements appear to be the same as bicycles. Above 30 you need a different driver's license, title the machine, have insurance, and a license plate.

 

[hurricane56]

On my usual route home I’m forced to take the lane for about 1/3 of a mile. This is a 25mph zone. I get this guy tailgating me even as I’m going about 28mph on my Haibike. When I switch to my HF1000 this hasn’t happened in the year I’ve owned it because I’m going about 33mph. I’m not sure what it is, but most road users don’t recognize you as a object until you can hold a speed above 30mph.

 

[rich c]

Looks like 28mph is the limit in IL
https://www.bikelaw.com/2017/08/new-illinois-e-bike-law/

Yup, for ebikes. I was looking for some kind of classification for 2 wheeled that go 40mph. I thought heading towards moped would give the rules for two wheelers that were below motorcycles.