Juiced Bikes 40 mph!!

[Chris Hammond]

To those of you that are pro 40 mph eBike: at what point do you draw the line? 50 mph? 60 mph? At what point do you think a drivers license should be required? How about license plates, insurance?

So the answers you are likely to get will vary alot depending on each individual preference.
To be sure, there are already ebikes out there that are capable of 50mph and up. (See Luna Sur Ron) and many individual builders modding old bike frames with 3000+W motors and 72V batteries.
For many people speed is addictive, once you expose them to a higher limit, they get used to it, and then want more.
As for the licensing and insurance question, I'd say, the point at which you are using the bike like a motorcycle in traffic, is probably the point you ought to be licensed and insured.

I personally would love to have a 40+ mph capable bike, but I am pretty sure I'd still be cruising at 30-35 most of the time simply due to the range constraints that using more power would create. I currently spend most of my time cruising at ~30 mph during my 30 mile each way commute.

As to the posts about safety, again this is a highly relative subject. There are 1000's of motorcycle riders driving around without helmets.
The biggest risk we all take riding our bikes around is getting hit by a car. We lose that battle every time regardless of who is at fault. I ride in high visibility clothing, with lights always on and flashing. I try to be very predictable and make deliberate actions to be noticed as much as possible. Yes, I recognize that if I lay my bike down at 30+ in my summer riding gear, the road rash will be horrible. Hopefully that never happens. As I said, there are some safety advantages to riding at speeds closer to the flow of traffic. One of the biggest is that traffic behind you has more time to notice and avoid you as the overtake you.

 

[rich c]

So the answers you are likely to get will vary alot depending on each individual preference.
To be sure, there are already ebikes out there that are capable of 50mph and up. (See Luna Sur Ron) and many individual builders modding old bike frames with 3000+W motors and 72V batteries.
For many people speed is addictive, once you expose them to a higher limit, they get used to it, and then want more.
As for the licensing and insurance question, I'd say, the point at which you are using the bike like a motorcycle in traffic, is probably the point you ought to be licensed and insured.

I personally would love to have a 40+ mph capable bike, but I am pretty sure I'd still be cruising at 30-35 most of the time simply due to the range constraints that using more power would create. I currently spend most of my time cruising at ~30 mph during my 30 mile each way commute.

As to the posts about safety, again this is a highly relative subject. There are 1000's of motorcycle riders driving around without helmets.
The biggest risk we all take riding our bikes around is getting hit by a car. We lose that battle every time regardless of who is at fault. I ride in high visibility clothing, with lights always on and flashing. I try to be very predictable and make deliberate actions to be noticed as much as possible. Yes, I recognize that if I lay my bike down at 30+ in my summer riding gear, the road rash will be horrible. Hopefully that never happens. As I said, there are some safety advantages to riding at speeds closer to the flow of traffic. One of the biggest is that traffic behind you has more time to notice and avoid you as the overtake you.

You don't mention the safety of others when someone takes the bicycle on a shared path. I know somebody will. I've met gas powered bicycles on the shared path I ride. They are forbidden, but someone's going to do it. There is also the motorists perceived speed they expect when they see a bicycle approaching. Not sure any motorists are going to expect an approaching bicycle to be going 40mph and will certainly underestimate the distance they need to pull out.

 

[highpockets]

I'm right there with Chris. There is not a single bike path in my whole county. There are though, a lot of crazy drivers who want to get around me. I would love to be able to go 40 until I felt it was safe for them to pass then slow down for them. Sadly, I imagine there would still be some who would break their neck to pass me going 40 so they could go 45!

Just because it goes 40 does not necessarily mean you will be driving 40 at all times. My bike goes 28 with assist but I do not average that.

 

[Gator]

IMHO: these are the ebikes that will get us banned from bike trails. Bike trails, bike paths, and bike lanes should be 20 mph max and no hand or foot throttles; pedal - assist only.

 

[Trail Cruiser]

Does that mean you're gonna ban these people too?

 

[Chris Hammond]

You don't mention the safety of others when someone takes the bicycle on a shared path. I know somebody will. I've met gas powered bicycles on the shared path I ride. They are forbidden, but someone's going to do it. There is also the motorists perceived speed they expect when they see a bicycle approaching. Not sure any motorists are going to expect an approaching bicycle to be going 40mph and will certainly underestimate the distance they need to pull out.

I understand your point and agree with you that there are always going to be some idiots who put others at risk. As you already pointed out, they are already doing so by riding their gas powered bikes on the trails in spite of the regulations against it. This problem isn't going to get better or worse because of Juiced 40mph bike. I can ride my CCS at 30+ mph on these trails if I chose to do so, but I reserve my higher speed riding for the street in traffic.
Your point about cars pulling out in front of a high speed bike is well taken, but this is something the bike rider can see coming, in fact, regardless of your speed on the bike, awareness of traffic turning onto the street is always something to be aware of. When I see a car in this situation, I always have my fingers over the brakes, and make eye contact with the driver, to ensure they have seen me. Some drivers will ignore bikers and pull out in front of you regardless, but the ability to adjust my speed to traffic allows me to try to have cars beside me in these situations more often to ensure they are less likely to try to jump out in front of me.

 

[Gator]

Does that mean you're gonna ban these people too?

Yes and those cars as well. That has to be the widest bike trail/bike path/bike lane I have ever seen.

 

[Chris Hammond]

even 28mph is too fast on bike trail.

Yes it is. That is part of my point for sure. Safe speed is relative to the situation. A 40 mph bike on a snowpacked road is ridiculously stupid, same road dry in the summer might be very safe depending on traffic condidtions.
Bike trails tend to be more winding and the corners are designed with 20 mph or less speeds in mind, thus traveling at double that speed virtually guarantees that a corner will be overshot at some point, especially when unexpected traffic is encountered.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Crashing, even at 40mph, is another thing. I laid down my motorcycle going at just 35mph a few weeks ago when a car pulled in front of me, slide 5-6 feet, hit my helmet face first on the asphalt and got serious road rash on the left entire side of my body. This is with gear on, which without would have undoubtedly been more serious. It shook me up. Most people riding eBikes at high speeds have very minimal protection on including helmet and I can't imagine the same accident on an ebike at 35-40mph with only t-shirt, shorts and bike helmet on. Safe ebiking is up to the rider and I think in many cases, safety is an after thought. Get launched off an ebike at 40 and you will heed Uncle Ben's words.

Sorry to hear about your crash. Going down at any speed has its risks. I once broke 2 ribs - very painful! - in a training mishap at maybe 5 mph max. You're right, @jazz, this stuff is no joke.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

To those of you that are pro 40 mph eBike: at what point do you draw the line? 50 mph? 60 mph? At what point do you think a drivers license should be required? How about license plates, insurance?

I myself am not "pro-40 mph" riding. I am in favor of ebikes that perform extremely well, that give me a superior level of performance at the speeds I customarily ride. Which may be different from someone else's safe speed, whether higher or lower, I'm not here to judge. I notice that @john peck doesn't get the vapors when @Chris Hammond talks about riding every day at speeds twice what John says he feels comfortable with.

 

[pnop]

where? Suburban Detroit has zilch. Lots of pickup truck drivers and large SUV's with only one person in them driving everywhere, including 200 yards up the street. I see that all the time. hahaha. sad.

You will have to look it up but I could ride from Clarksburg WV to at least Nelsonville Ohio on decent trails or lanes.

 

[john peck]

No interest in going above 30 on a bicycle. Not against others doing it, but not for me. I do feel people riding this type of bike on trails, paths, sidewalks and even some streets (and you know they will) will herald more regulations for all of us.

I´m fine with a sprint run at a hill or a shot of boost to get over a knoll or across an intersection but riding in 2,3, or S really sucks the juice out
of my pack in a hurry. I´m learning that 10 mph can actually be rewarding & enjoyable. I frequent a lot of pedestrian paths where I go out of my
way to be courteous & respect other users. Ebiking can use all the friends it can get.

 

[John from Connecticut]

Sorry to hear about your crash. Going down at any speed has its risks. I once broke 2 ribs - very painful! - in a training mishap at maybe 5 mph max. You're right, @jazz, this stuff is no joke.

I'm not pretending for a second to be a Bike Design Engineer. Hopefully much more knowledgable folks can post.... Stopping a bike is perhaps more
important then top speed ? The Juiced HyperFat 1100 weighs 66 lbs. The disc rotors are 180mm front and rear.. Max total bike and load capacity 275 lbs

My Trek XM700+ Touring bike weighs 46 lbs, 180mm Shimano rotors front /160mm rear. Max bike load 300 lbs. I've had several situations where
I've experienced slight brake fade, aka rotor heat buildup and have learned how to modulate my braking....Key phrase 46 pound bike : )

My Trek Powerfly7 Mtb has 203mm Shimano rotors front /180mm rear. Max load 300 lbs.

Admittedly the max load capacity of my Treks is 300lbs and the HyperFat 1100 is 275 lbs, but those numbers are all legal and design stuff.
In the real world it's stopping power, I;m assuming.

Bottom line my XM 700 is 20 lbs lighter, but has a 20mm smaller rotor in the rear then the HF1100. My Powerfly7 Mtb has a 23mm
larger rotor in the front then the HF1100, yet my PF7 is 16 pounds lighter then the HF1100. Just throwing this out for thought ?

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Bottom line my XM 700 is 20 lbs lighter, but has a 20mm smaller rotor in the rear then the HF1100. My Powerfly7 Mtb has a 23mm
larger rotor in the front then the HF1100, yet my PF7 is 16 pounds lighter then the HF1100. Just throwing this out for thought ?

Just like how you upgraded the fork on your Trek from crappy/stiff one to RockShox... folks can upgrade the brakes on HF1000 from 180mm to powerful Magura MT5/MT7- 203mm rotors.

 

[larry-new]

Let those who would, do.

On a deserted road, I hit a deer at 40mph...my maxi scooter was totalled, plexi windshield broken into hand-sized pieces, and my full gear tested...two belly slide scrapes went to the bone. I walked away, because the plastic took most of the force. I'd not want to experience it on a bike.

 

[AHicks]

I have countless miles riding trails on Snowmobiles and ATV's. Over 40 years worth. I can tell you first hand even a quail hit at 20mph can hurt. Between that big thud and the shock of being hit with all those feathers coming out of just nowhere, it's quite a shock. Something you'll remember vividly for a long time - guaranteed!

 

[Gator]

Let those who would, do.

On a deserted road, I hit a deer at 40mph...my maxi scooter was totalled, plexi windshield broken into hand-sized pieces, and my full gear tested...two belly slide scrapes went to the bone. I walked away, because the plastic took most of the force. I'd not want to experience it on a bike.

Ouch!
And for those who would dismiss this,... imagine if it were a toddler on a tricycle or 3 year old twins in a wagon. I have seen both on my bike trail.
20 mph speed limit and pedal-assist only on bike trails/paths.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Let those who would, do.

On a deserted road, I hit a deer at 40mph...my maxi scooter was totalled, plexi windshield broken into hand-sized pieces, and my full gear tested...two belly slide scrapes went to the bone. I walked away, because the plastic took most of the force. I'd not want to experience it on a bike.

Let Juiced make whatever it wants to do. There are countless people adding dongles to Bosch bikes and going over 30mph, there 1000's of folks who do 30mph on their Bafang kit.

"Before you speak, ask yourself: is it kind, is it necessary, is it true, does it Improve on the silence?"

What I find interesting is, people trying to downplay the value proposition of Juiced just because they paid $1000-$2000 more for their bike. Humans are as territorial as any other creature in the forest. They may do it physically, we do it cerebral'ly. All the same. Everyone thinks highly of their choices but there is no need to downplay some other brand to feel good about ourselves.

 

[John from Connecticut]

Just like how you upgraded the fork on your Trek from crappy/stiff one to RockShox... folks can upgrade the brakes on HF1000 from 180mm to powerful Magura MT5/MT7- 203mm rotors.

Ravi, 'Things' get lost in the typed word. I was wondering how basically the same rotors 180/160 on my 46 lb Trek have all they can do to safely do a 'panic' stop
yet the HF1100 weighs 1/3 ( 20 lbs ) more then my XM700 with the same size rotors ( 20 mm larger in the rear on the HF1100). Are you saying if the braking is inadequate
on the HF1100 out of the box the owner can upgrade ?

Regarding the Rock Shox upgrade. Depending on the bikes geometry I would highly recommend the upgrade. In my case the Rock Shox changed the geometry
of my bike much more to my liking. A huge improvement in handling. The shock portion was a bid improvement over the goofy rattling spring deal Trek included.
It was better then nothing, but not a lot better.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

180/160 on my 46 lb Trek have all they can do to safely do a 'panic' stop
yet the HF1100 weighs 1/3 ( 20 lbs ) more then my XM700 with the same size rotors ( 20 mm larger in the rear on the HF1100). Are you saying if the braking is inadequate
on the HF1100 out of the box the owner can upgrade ?

John,
Yes. 180mm rotors are adequate enough to stop a bike. If they need more, they can easily upgrade.

Trek just released a new bike called Domane+. It is one of the lightest bikes but also spec'ed with a Bosch speed motor and it has 160mm rotors.
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...ne/domane/domane/p/24672/?colorCode=black_red

Why would Trek spec 160mm rotors on such a fast bike? Well, if the expert engineers think 160mm are fine, that works.

A bike may weigh 40lbs or 70lbs but the rider's mass is always much more than the bike.