Isn't a 28mph Bosch the drive we really want?

[Rusty]

Hi All - we are fortunate to have a new member on board - Chicagoland ebikes, who is a friend of the Bosch CEO of North America.

He has been kind enough to pass on to the Bosch CEO what I consider the ultimate ebike mid drive specs - for the one that we REALLY all want. Not the neutered down euro version. I'd say that Bosch is certainly capable of building this. What do you think? Here are the specs:

1. Build it with 85 nm peak torque - best in class.
2. Include a throttle option - up to a full 20 mph!
3. Eliminate the PAS cut-off speed at 20mph! Allow pedal speed to be dictated by rider ability/ desire.
4. Produce for mountain bike applications, (as well as for other applications) for those of us who want to utilize mountain bike capabilities.

Most of us are not single-track warriors, but enjoy the all surface capability that mountain bikes provide. We also want to go faster on our high- end ebikes than on our "normal" bikes, especially on our commutes. We need some 28mph Haibikes!

C'mon You can do it! We want a Bosch for North America!!

Rusty

 

[Shea N Encinitas]

I reckon the engineering is on par with current technologies but PAS cut-off at 20 mph is a deal breaker. Sorry FELT (haibike, etc) , I like your 40 lb bike but I'll kick it's arse on my Dash.

Straight up losing sales, hows that for motivation.

 

[Bike_On]

Hi All - we are fortunate to have a new member on board - Chicagoland ebikes, who is a friend of the Bosch CEO of North America.

He has been kind enough to pass on to the Bosch CEO what I consider the ultimate ebike mid drive specs - for the one that we REALLY all want. Not the neutered down euro version. I'd say that Bosch is certainly capable of building this. What do you think? Here are the specs:

1. Build it with 85 nm peak torque - best in class.
2. Include a throttle option - up to a full 20 mph!
3. Eliminate the PAS cut-off speed at 20mph! Allow pedal speed to be dictated by rider ability/ desire.
4. Produce for mountain bike applications, (as well as for other applications) for those of us who want to utilize mountain bike capabilities.

Most of us are not single-track warriors, but enjoy the all surface capability that mountain bikes provide. We also want to go faster on our high- end ebikes than on our "normal" bikes, especially on our commutes. We need some 28mph Haibikes!

C'mon You can do it! We want a Bosch for North America!!

Rusty

Rusty,

You have described an Optibike with a PAS option... only if it were true.

Actually, the Optibike Pioneer has PAS and 20+ operation, but I don't think it has the power and torque you are looking for, or range.

I think the Focus Thron Impulse 2 may have your specs.

 

[Bike_On]

From Long Island Electric... It's an Impulse 2 system, not a Bosch, sorry...

Focus Thron Impulse Speed Electric Bike
The Focus Thron Impulse Speed electric bike is an amazingly fast full suspension speed bike. The Thron is an impressively stable and sturdy bike to ride. Some key features include, powerful speed drive, pro level suspension, high-quality components and Schwalbe Super Moto X tires made especially for this bike.

Battery: The Thron just keeps going and going with it’s 36v, 612wh removable Lithium Ion battery. This battery lasts up to 5 hours per charge and takes approximately 4 hours to charge from empty.

Brakes: The Focus Thron is equipped with high-quality Magura MT4 hydraulic disc speed brakes. In addition to providing very dependable stopping power, these brakes are low-maintenance, and easy to control. No matter how hard you ride stopping should be no concern.

Frame: The Thron features a full suspension e-bike aluminum frame with an increased capacity to handle the stress of off-road terrain. The Thron’s battery and motor are centrally mounted and carefully integrated into the frame.

Drivetrain: The Focus Thron has all the range you could want with a high-quality 10-speed Shimano XT Low Profile Plus rear derailleur paired to an Impulse II Sport Speed mid drive motor, with a Shimano XT twist shifter located on the grip. The Impulse shift-sensing technology provides quick and smooth gear-shifting; noticeably similar to a “normal” non-assisted bike.

Motor: The Impulse Speed utilizes the new Impulse II Sport Speed mid drive motor delivering up to 70Nm of torque; a mechanical advantage for climbing. The new 36v 350w Impulse II Sport Speed motors are fitted with Shift-Sensing technology which allows the motor to seamlessly adjusts to your abilities. These high-torque motors are extremely responsive, quiet and excellent for climbing hills.`

Riding Modes: This Focus electric bike features three levels of torque-sensing pedal assist, which can easily be changed while you’re riding. The Thron can also be ridden like a regular, non-assisted bicycle by normal pedaling.

Display: The redesigned Focus Impulse II display has many updates from last years model. Some of the changes include a new backlit thumb controller for optimal night operation. The LCD display now allows you to thumb through the display of your speed, trip distance, battery level, and odometer. It’s positioned on the faceplate of the stem which offers excellent visibility. To change motor settings while riding, simply push the large, glove friendly keys on the handlebar control pad. This ensures safety and stability, while still allowing you to control the motor for optimal performance.

Top Speed: The Focus Thron Impulse Speed has an impressive top speed of 28 mph.

Range: The Thron Impulse Speed utilizes an efficient 612Wh battery with an impressive range of up to 127 miles under optimal riding conditions. Range will always vary depending on use of drive mode, how much you pedal, the type of terrain, and the rider’s weight.

Sizing Options: This Focus electric bike comes in four frame sizes; X-Small, Small, Medium, and Large. If you’re unsure of which size would be best for you, please contact us so that we can assist you in finding the correct fit.

Wheels: The Thron comes standard with high-quality Reynolds AM wheels, with 15mm axles.

Suspension: The Thron Impulse Speed is equipped with a Fox 32 Float Factory CTD 150mm front suspension fork and a Fox Float CTD Evolution 150mm rear shock. The bike has 150mm of travel in the front and 150mm in the rear providing exceptional ride quality. The rear CTD suspension features a unique three level adjustment. The Fox front fork also has a lock out feature for better riding efficiency when the suspension is not needed, for example, while riding on the street to the trail.

Tires: The power from the Impulse Speed meets the ground with its fast and smooth Schwalbe Super Moto X, 27.5” x 2.4” balloon tires with low rolling resistance.These tires are optimal for fast rolling, good cornering grip, and extreme terrain. These tires paired with the Fox full suspension system on this bike are the perfect match for riding on or off road.

Color: The Focus Thron Impulse Speed is available in two-tone Dark Grey and Yellow.

Warranty: Focus offers a two year warranty.

Accessories: The Thron Speed comes with front and rear lights and a mirror which make this bike a great electric bike for trekking. The front and rear LED lights are dynamo powered, which means the lights still have power even with the system is powered off. Our team has a lot of experience outfitting bikes with additional accessories, so be sure to reach out to us if there’s anything you may need.

 

[Pace]

He has been kind enough to pass on to the Bosch CEO what I consider the ultimate ebike mid drive specs - for the one that we REALLY all want. Not the neutered down euro version. I'd say that Bosch is certainly capable of building this. What do you think? Here are the specs:

1. Build it with 85 nm peak torque - best in class.

Is that highest priority? Since mid drives run through the gearing, the motor can get away w/ less torque than hub motors. I mean, I guess you can always say more is better, but after riding a bosch-driven haibike, I wasn't thinking, "if only it had more torque". I was thinking 20mph wasn't enough though.

2. Include a throttle option - up to a full 20 mph!

Not a fan of this myself, but understand that people like throttles. I think this is more dangerous in a mid drive though, because even if you decouple the drive from the pedals so you can keep your feet still in throttle mode (pretty much a requirement i would think), the chain is still moving. I don't think it would be good to encourage static foot riding next to a moving chain.

3. Eliminate the PAS cut-off speed at 20mph! Allow pedal speed to be dictated by rider ability/ desire.

There's 28mph models (e.g. haibike super race), just not that many, and they are expensive. In the US (or anywhere) I don't think you are going to see them with completely unrestricted assist levels.

4. Produce for mountain bike applications, (as well as for other applications) for those of us who want to utilize mountain bike capabilities.

Do you not consider the haibike lines to have MTB's ?

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I would love a high quality, full suspension, speed pedelec with long range battery..!!
Neo Jumper is good but won't hit 28mph...

 

[Pace]

yup, would love to check out the faster fs rs:

 

[Rusty]

Is that highest priority? Since mid drives run through the gearing, the motor can get away w/ less torque than hub motors. I mean, I guess you can always say more is better, but after riding a bosch-driven haibike, I wasn't thinking, "if only it had more torque". I was thinking 20mph wasn't enough though.


Not a fan of this myself, but understand that people like throttles. I think this is more dangerous in a mid drive though, because even if you decouple the drive from the pedals so you can keep your feet still in throttle mode (pretty much a requirement i would think), the chain is still moving. I don't think it would be good to encourage static foot riding next to a moving chain.


There's 28mph models (e.g. haibike super race), just not that many, and they are expensive. In the US (or anywhere) I don't think you are going to see them with completely unrestricted assist levels.




Hi Pace!

Torque is perhaps not the highest priority, there is no hierarchy to the specs listed. I just keep hearing that the Bosch's are kind of "weak". It doesn't have to be Bosch, I would welcome any drive manufacturer to produce what I have described! Just that we had a possible potential to influence Bosch design - that was my impetus for this post.

Throttles are great, just ask all of the IZIP Dash owners! There are a lot on this forum.

Gosh, I ride dirt motorcycles - that is a much worse condition than having a half horse motor drive next to your static feet!! Doesn't bother me at all.

Haiboke mtb's look great, but I think they are all "restricted".

Yes, it's the restrictions that I would prefer not to be in place. I'd say go as far as is legally possible, but don't add even more restrictions to speed/ output. I commute on my IZIP mid-drive Peak a lot, and the difference between 20 and 28 mph is huge!!

 

[Rusty]

yup, would love to check out the faster fs rs:

Me too! But not available on the US, right?

 

[Rusty]

B

From Long Island Electric... It's an Impulse 2 system, not a Bosch, sorry... That is okay , it doesn't HAVE to be a Bosch! Does it have a throttle though ??

Focus Thron Impulse Speed Electric Bike
The Focus Thron Impulse Speed electric bike is an amazingly fast full suspension speed bike. The Thron is an impressively stable and sturdy bike to ride. Some key features include, powerful speed drive, pro level suspension, high-quality components and Schwalbe Super Moto X tires made especially for this bike.

Battery: The Thron just keeps going and going with it’s 36v, 612wh removable Lithium Ion battery. This battery lasts up to 5 hours per charge and takes approximately 4 hours to charge from empty.

Brakes: The Focus Thron is equipped with high-quality Magura MT4 hydraulic disc speed brakes. In addition to providing very dependable stopping power, these brakes are low-maintenance, and easy to control. No matter how hard you ride stopping should be no concern.

Frame: The Thron features a full suspension e-bike aluminum frame with an increased capacity to handle the stress of off-road terrain. The Thron’s battery and motor are centrally mounted and carefully integrated into the frame.

Drivetrain: The Focus Thron has all the range you could want with a high-quality 10-speed Shimano XT Low Profile Plus rear derailleur paired to an Impulse II Sport Speed mid drive motor, with a Shimano XT twist shifter located on the grip. The Impulse shift-sensing technology provides quick and smooth gear-shifting; noticeably similar to a “normal” non-assisted bike.

Motor: The Impulse Speed utilizes the new Impulse II Sport Speed mid drive motor delivering up to 70Nm of torque; a mechanical advantage for climbing. The new 36v 350w Impulse II Sport Speed motors are fitted with Shift-Sensing technology which allows the motor to seamlessly adjusts to your abilities. These high-torque motors are extremely responsive, quiet and excellent for climbing hills.`

Riding Modes: This Focus electric bike features three levels of torque-sensing pedal assist, which can easily be changed while you’re riding. The Thron can also be ridden like a regular, non-assisted bicycle by normal pedaling.

Display: The redesigned Focus Impulse II display has many updates from last years model. Some of the changes include a new backlit thumb controller for optimal night operation. The LCD display now allows you to thumb through the display of your speed, trip distance, battery level, and odometer. It’s positioned on the faceplate of the stem which offers excellent visibility. To change motor settings while riding, simply push the large, glove friendly keys on the handlebar control pad. This ensures safety and stability, while still allowing you to control the motor for optimal performance.

Top Speed: The Focus Thron Impulse Speed has an impressive top speed of 28 mph.

Range: The Thron Impulse Speed utilizes an efficient 612Wh battery with an impressive range of up to 127 miles under optimal riding conditions. Range will always vary depending on use of drive mode, how much you pedal, the type of terrain, and the rider’s weight.

Sizing Options: This Focus electric bike comes in four frame sizes; X-Small, Small, Medium, and Large. If you’re unsure of which size would be best for you, please contact us so that we can assist you in finding the correct fit.

Wheels: The Thron comes standard with high-quality Reynolds AM wheels, with 15mm axles.

Suspension: The Thron Impulse Speed is equipped with a Fox 32 Float Factory CTD 150mm front suspension fork and a Fox Float CTD Evolution 150mm rear shock. The bike has 150mm of travel in the front and 150mm in the rear providing exceptional ride quality. The rear CTD suspension features a unique three level adjustment. The Fox front fork also has a lock out feature for better riding efficiency when the suspension is not needed, for example, while riding on the street to the trail.

Tires: The power from the Impulse Speed meets the ground with its fast and smooth Schwalbe Super Moto X, 27.5” x 2.4” balloon tires with low rolling resistance.These tires are optimal for fast rolling, good cornering grip, and extreme terrain. These tires paired with the Fox full suspension system on this bike are the perfect match for riding on or off road.

Color: The Focus Thron Impulse Speed is available in two-tone Dark Grey and Yellow.

Warranty: Focus offers a two year warranty.

Accessories: The Thron Speed comes with front and rear lights and a mirror which make this bike a great electric bike for trekking. The front and rear LED lights are dynamo powered, which means the lights still have power even with the system is powered off. Our team has a lot of experience outfitting bikes with additional accessories, so be sure to reach out to us if there’s anything you may need.

 

[Rusty]

From Long Island Electric... It's an Impulse 2 system, not a Bosch, sorry...

Focus Thron Impulse Speed Electric Bike
The Focus Thron Impulse Speed electric bike is an amazingly fast full suspension speed bike. The Thron is an impressively stable and sturdy bike to ride. Some key features include, powerful speed drive, pro level suspension, high-quality components and Schwalbe Super Moto X tires made especially for this bike.

Battery: The Thron just keeps going and going with it’s 36v, 612wh removable Lithium Ion battery. This battery lasts up to 5 hours per charge and takes approximately 4 hours to charge from empty.

Brakes: The Focus Thron is equipped with high-quality Magura MT4 hydraulic disc speed brakes. In addition to providing very dependable stopping power, these brakes are low-maintenance, and easy to control. No matter how hard you ride stopping should be no concern.

Frame: The Thron features a full suspension e-bike aluminum frame with an increased capacity to handle the stress of off-road terrain. The Thron’s battery and motor are centrally mounted and carefully integrated into the frame.

Drivetrain: The Focus Thron has all the range you could want with a high-quality 10-speed Shimano XT Low Profile Plus rear derailleur paired to an Impulse II Sport Speed mid drive motor, with a Shimano XT twist shifter located on the grip. The Impulse shift-sensing technology provides quick and smooth gear-shifting; noticeably similar to a “normal” non-assisted bike.

Motor: The Impulse Speed utilizes the new Impulse II Sport Speed mid drive motor delivering up to 70Nm of torque; a mechanical advantage for climbing. The new 36v 350w Impulse II Sport Speed motors are fitted with Shift-Sensing technology which allows the motor to seamlessly adjusts to your abilities. These high-torque motors are extremely responsive, quiet and excellent for climbing hills.`

Riding Modes: This Focus electric bike features three levels of torque-sensing pedal assist, which can easily be changed while you’re riding. The Thron can also be ridden like a regular, non-assisted bicycle by normal pedaling.

Display: The redesigned Focus Impulse II display has many updates from last years model. Some of the changes include a new backlit thumb controller for optimal night operation. The LCD display now allows you to thumb through the display of your speed, trip distance, battery level, and odometer. It’s positioned on the faceplate of the stem which offers excellent visibility. To change motor settings while riding, simply push the large, glove friendly keys on the handlebar control pad. This ensures safety and stability, while still allowing you to control the motor for optimal performance.

Top Speed: The Focus Thron Impulse Speed has an impressive top speed of 28 mph.

Range: The Thron Impulse Speed utilizes an efficient 612Wh battery with an impressive range of up to 127 miles under optimal riding conditions. Range will always vary depending on use of drive mode, how much you pedal, the type of terrain, and the rider’s weight.

Sizing Options: This Focus electric bike comes in four frame sizes; X-Small, Small, Medium, and Large. If you’re unsure of which size would be best for you, please contact us so that we can assist you in finding the correct fit.

Wheels: The Thron comes standard with high-quality Reynolds AM wheels, with 15mm axles.

Suspension: The Thron Impulse Speed is equipped with a Fox 32 Float Factory CTD 150mm front suspension fork and a Fox Float CTD Evolution 150mm rear shock. The bike has 150mm of travel in the front and 150mm in the rear providing exceptional ride quality. The rear CTD suspension features a unique three level adjustment. The Fox front fork also has a lock out feature for better riding efficiency when the suspension is not needed, for example, while riding on the street to the trail.

Tires: The power from the Impulse Speed meets the ground with its fast and smooth Schwalbe Super Moto X, 27.5” x 2.4” balloon tires with low rolling resistance.These tires are optimal for fast rolling, good cornering grip, and extreme terrain. These tires paired with the Fox full suspension system on this bike are the perfect match for riding on or off road.

Color: The Focus Thron Impulse Speed is available in two-tone Dark Grey and Yellow.

Warranty: Focus offers a two year warranty.

Accessories: The Thron Speed comes with front and rear lights and a mirror which make this bike a great electric bike for trekking. The front and rear LED lights are dynamo powered, which means the lights still have power even with the system is powered off. Our team has a lot of experience outfitting bikes with additional accessories, so be sure to reach out to us if there’s anything you may need.

Very nice! But no throttle, right??

 

[Pace]

Torque is perhaps not the highest priority, there is no hierarchy to the specs listed. I just keep hearing that the Bosch's are kind of "weak". It doesn't have to be Bosch, I would welcome any drive manufacturer to produce what I have described! Just that we had a possible potential to influence Bosch design - that was my impetus for this post.

Throttles are great, just ask all of the IZIP Dash owners! There are a lot on this forum.

Gosh, I ride dirt motorcycles - that is a much worse condition than having a half horse motor drive next to your static feet!! Doesn't bother me at all.

Haiboke mtb's look great, but I think they are all "restricted".

yeah, I think we're on the same page with respect to Haibike (or other Bosch builders) bringing their full line of s-pedlecs...based on what we're seeing from 2015 lineups is that will start to happen (maybe with the road/trekking lines first). The xduro rx 29er I tried didn't feel 'weak' compared to other bikes, it just topped off at 20. But it got you there in a hurry and climbed very well.

On throttles -- I'm a Dash owner but ride it only in assist mode, if it was pedelec-only I would have been fine with that. But it's good that there are bikes with that option because clearly people like that. The dash is the only bike I tried with a throttle (well, maybe the eflow nitro had one, I don't remember), so I don't know how other bikes compare, but the couple of times I have tried Dash throttle, I didn't find it all that responsive and it seems like it takes a quarter turn before it first delivers power.

 

[Shea N Encinitas]

On throttles -- I'm a Dash owner but ride it only in assist mode, if it was pedelec-only I would have been fine with that. But it's good that there are bikes with that option because clearly people like that. The dash is the only bike I tried with a throttle (well, maybe the eflow nitro had one, I don't remember), so I don't know how other bikes compare, but the couple of times I have tried Dash throttle, I didn't find it all that responsive and it seems like it takes a quarter turn before it first delivers power.

RE: the Dash, I would rather have a small Turbo button (full throttle) and the grip of my choice, I wonder if the system requires the hookup... and PAS level cycling, 4 clicks to drop one PAS level, this will not do once the warranty period is over. -S

 

[Bike_On]

Very nice! But no throttle, right??

I think you are right, no throttle! But it has the other specs right.

 

[Deleted member 803]

I would love a high quality, full suspension, speed pedelec with long range battery..!!
Neo Jumper is good but won't hit 28mph...

View attachment 1720

Can we kindly refrain from any Jesus references. Thanks.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Can we kindly refrain from any Jesus references. Thanks.

Haha, 86... that's a famous meme

Focus Thron Impulse Speed Electric Bike

Focus Thron Impulse.... looks absolutely great but very limited supply.
Focus wasn't even there at the Interbike.

 

[Chris Nolte]

Frankly I really don't think the CEO of Bosch NA going to have much say on what goes on with the ebike market, but there are many execs that do and they are trying to do what they can to work with the US market, I've had several conversations with them. You must understand there are many constraints they need to work within though, some of which I listed below. I don't want to be a buzz kill, but I left some comments below.

1. Torque: Regarding the 85Nm of torque, most derailleur systems and IGH (internally Geared Hubs) aren't rated for more than 60Nm and most systems are already pushing the limits. They want to build systems that are compatible with a variety of components so bike brands have less limitations when selecting components. Maybe as the market grows overall they will make ebike specific components, but I still feel this could be a limiting strategy.

2. Throttle: I don't feel that Bosch will ever bring a throttle to the US, it goes against their philosophy. They even left the walk button disabled in the US and you can't enable it, even with the programming software which we have. There are several reasons why they did this, but I feel part of the concern is that someone will hack it into a throttle.

3. Speed Cut-off: With the speed cut-off disabled these bikes are capable of speeds well over 30mph with the proper gearing, there is just simply too much potential risk with this, not to mention the impact on the perception of ebikes if riders were going even faster. If I was the head of a 50 Billion dollar company I would practice prudence here as well.

4. Mountain Bike Applications: They do actually program there motors specific to the application, it's mostly in the form of the chainring size, I do wish they had climb assist like the Impule II MTB motor (it will continue to assist you even if your cadence slows at the top of an elevation).

Haibike FS RS & Haibike in the US: During our convo with the folks at Haibike at Eurobike we we're really pushing to bring in the FS RS, but this was more Bosch's decision then theirs. Bosch doesn't want mountain bikes with the speed system on it, as the legislation is still unclear and they are concerned about liability issues. I know many people that use FS bikes strictly on the street, but the concern is for those that will use them on the trails. I don't want to get hijack this thread with the trail controversy, but many brands are holding back due to this, including some large brands like Trek and Cannondale. Trek had plans of releasing their Powerfly+ this year, but around the same time of their release there was a lot of negative publicity around EMTB's so they decided to hold off this year in the US.

Focus Thron & Focus in the US: The Focus Thron is an amazing bike and in my opinion the only quality electric mountain bike with a speed motor to be available in the US next year. I rode it last month and I was thoroughly impressed, it's super smooth, it shifts well, plenty of suspension travel and it has all the power you need. We'll be getting our first shipment early next year and there has been a lot of excitement over this bike along with the rest of the Focus and Kalkhoff lineup which we'll be releasing on our website in late October. Regarding the limited supply, that will change next year, we have a lot of bikes on order and the US strategy for Focus and Kalkhoff will be changing significantly for 2015, they have added several new staff dedicated to the ebike market and we have planned a great lineup of bikes for next year. I wouldn't get too concerned that they weren't at Interbike, Trek and Specialized didn't have a booth there either, there has been a trend to do more independent shows rather than deal with all the difficulties of dealing with the convention center. Focus and Kalkhoff had there show in Germany and flew me along with two other US dealers to the show and we worked with them to come up with a strategy for the US. Frankly as a retailer I think this strategy works quite well, it's much more intimate and allows more time for helpful conversations.

I hope this info is helpful.

 

[Pace]

That is some good background Chris. It is not surprising that the big manufacturers are treading carefully, and I think that's ok, even if it holds back some models for a bit. As much as I would love to see a broader range of s-pedelecs, better to avoid doing in a way that results in knee-jerk reaction to shutting down access to ebikes -- trail or road. A few bad actors can ruin things for the lot of us (see take-out delivery in NYC). Even at 20, humming around on throttle only presents a different road mix vs regular cyclists and my guess is they are going to be less accepting compared to someone pedaling. Cycling advocacy itself is a tough battle to fight in many communities, if ebikes additionally get blacklisted and loose the support of other cyclists, good luck.

 

[Bike_On]

Frankly I really don't think the CEO of Bosch NA going to have much say on what goes on with the ebike market, but there are many execs that do and they are trying to do what they can to work with the US market, I've had several conversations with them. You must understand there are many constraints they need to work within though, some of which I listed below. I don't want to be a buzz kill, but I left some comments below.

1. Torque: Regarding the 85Nm of torque, most derailleur systems and IGH (internally Geared Hubs) aren't rated for more than 60Nm and most systems are already pushing the limits. They want to build systems that are compatible with a variety of components so bike brands have less limitations when selecting components. Maybe as the market grows overall they will make ebike specific components, but I still feel this could be a limiting strategy.

2. Throttle: I don't feel that Bosch will ever bring a throttle to the US, it goes against their philosophy. They even left the walk button disabled in the US and you can't enable it, even with the programming software which we have. There are several reasons why they did this, but I feel part of the concern is that someone will hack it into a throttle.

3. Speed Cut-off: With the speed cut-off disabled these bikes are capable of speeds well over 30mph with the proper gearing, there is just simply too much potential risk with this, not to mention the impact on the perception of ebikes if riders were going even faster. If I was the head of a 50 Billion dollar company I would practice prudence here as well.

4. Mountain Bike Applications: They do actually program there motors specific to the application, it's mostly in the form of the chainring size, I do wish they had climb assist like the Impule II MTB motor (it will continue to assist you even if your cadence slows at the top of an elevation).

Haibike FS RS & Haibike in the US: During our convo with the folks at Haibike at Eurobike we we're really pushing to bring in the FS RS, but this was more Bosch's decision then theirs. Bosch doesn't want mountain bikes with the speed system on it, as the legislation is still unclear and they are concerned about liability issues. I know many people that use FS bikes strictly on the street, but the concern is for those that will use them on the trails. I don't want to get hijack this thread with the trail controversy, but many brands are holding back due to this, including some large brands like Trek and Cannondale. Trek had plans of releasing their Powerfly+ this year, but around the same time of their release there was a lot of negative publicity around EMTB's so they decided to hold off this year in the US.

Focus Thron & Focus in the US: The Focus Thron is an amazing bike and in my opinion the only quality electric mountain bike with a speed motor to be available in the US next year. I rode it last month and I was thoroughly impressed, it's super smooth, it shifts well, plenty of suspension travel and it has all the power you need. We'll be getting our first shipment early next year and there has been a lot of excitement over this bike along with the rest of the Focus and Kalkhoff lineup which we'll be releasing on our website in late October. Regarding the limited supply, that will change next year, we have a lot of bikes on order and the US strategy for Focus and Kalkhoff will be changing significantly for 2015, they have added several new staff dedicated to the ebike market and we have planned a great lineup of bikes for next year. I wouldn't get too concerned that they weren't at Interbike, Trek and Specialized didn't have a booth there either, there has been a trend to do more independent shows rather than deal with all the difficulties of dealing with the convention center. Focus and Kalkhoff had there show in Germany and flew me along with two other US dealers to the show and we worked with them to come up with a strategy for the US. Frankly as a retailer I think this strategy works quite well, it's much more intimate and allows more time for helpful conversations.

I hope this info is helpful.

Chris,

Very nice summary. Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 803]

Funny how one changes one's mind with experience. Prior to the purchase of an e-bike I was sure I wanted a speed pedelec with a dual trigger (throttle and torque sensor). I am old and fat and thought that speed and throttle were critical. Now that I have been riding and e-bike for 2 months, I have yet to use the throttle on my bike and clearly understand that 28mph or higher on city streets, or difficult technical trails is both not helpful and downright dangerous. I am a motorcyclist and consider bicycling to be significantly more dangerous due to lack of proper protective gear, seriously underpowered equipment competing with cars, and significant lack tire traction for high speed turns.