Ravi Kempaiah
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Canada
- City
- Halifax
1. Torque: Regarding the 85Nm of torque, most derailleur systems and IGH (internally Geared Hubs) aren't rated for more than 60Nm and most systems are already pushing the limits. They want to build systems that are compatible with a variety of components so bike brands have less limitations when selecting components. Maybe as the market grows overall they will make ebike specific components, but I still feel this could be a limiting strategy.
2. Throttle: I don't feel that Bosch will ever bring a throttle to the US, it goes against their philosophy. They even left the walk button disabled in the US and you can't enable it, even with the programming software which we have. There are several reasons why they did this, but I feel part of the concern is that someone will hack it into a throttle.
Haibike FS RS & Haibike in the US: During our convo with the folks at Haibike at Eurobike we we're really pushing to bring in the FS RS, but this was more Bosch's decision then theirs. Bosch doesn't want mountain bikes with the speed system on it, as the legislation is still unclear and they are concerned about liability issues. I know many people that use FS bikes strictly on the street, but the concern is for those that will use them on the trails. I don't want to get hijack this thread with the trail controversy, but many brands are holding back due to this, including some large brands like Trek and Cannondale. Trek had plans of releasing their Powerfly+ this year, but around the same time of their release there was a lot of negative publicity around EMTB's so they decided to hold off this year in the US.
Focus Thron & Focus in the US: The Focus Thron is an amazing bike and in my opinion the only quality electric mountain bike with a speed motor to be available in the US next year. I rode it last month and I was thoroughly impressed, it's super smooth, it shifts well, plenty of suspension travel and it has all the power you need. We'll be getting our first shipment early next year and there has been a lot of excitement over this bike along with the rest of the Focus and Kalkhoff lineup which we'll be releasing on our website in late October. Regarding the limited supply, that will change next year, we have a lot of bikes on order and the US strategy for Focus and Kalkhoff will be changing significantly for 2015, they have added several new staff dedicated to the ebike market and we have planned a great lineup of bikes for next year. I wouldn't get too concerned that they weren't at Interbike, Trek and Specialized didn't have a booth there either, there has been a trend to do more independent shows rather than deal with all the difficulties of dealing with the convention center. Focus and Kalkhoff had there show in Germany and flew me along with two other US dealers to the show and we worked with them to come up with a strategy for the US. Frankly as a retailer I think this strategy works quite well, it's much more intimate and allows more time for helpful conversations.
When I spoke to Christina Puello (Haibike USA) at the Interbike, I was told there is no immediate plan to launch FS RS in the US.
Torque:
I think there might be a confusion regarding Torque values and the speed. They are not related. More torque doesn't mean more speed.
Also, a fit 30 something can put out 90Nm of torque easily. Elite athletes can maintain 100+ Nm. Couple of months back, I measured the torque values in a kinesiology lab and my right leg could do 90Nm (my left leg with ACL surgery could do upto 60Nm something)
It is still unclear if the Bosch produces 60Nm at the crank or the derailleur.
60Nm is not a huge value and it is the PEAK output. Dyno graph is a much more reliable source of info this case. How smooth the curve is over different RPM's need to be taken into account as well.
Top of the line Optibikes (the one used in pike's peak challenge), 48V 750W BBS-02 and few other systems can deliver more than 90Nm peak.
I also spent fair amount of time at the KMC and Shimano booths at the Interbike and some of their chains/components are designed for E-bikes and they can easily handle the delivery of extra torque. If its ridden at 85Nm, ALL THE TIME, it will wear out quicker but that's not going to happen under normal circumstances.
So torque limitation is not a factor at all. Also, it shouldn't be a sole criteria for choosing the bike. It's like saying I am going to marry that girl because she has bigg boobies..!! doesn't mean anything.
Stromer ST2 has only ~40Nm but it was a very impressive bike and part of the reason is the refinement of the system. Torque+ Motor power + efficient batter/BMS + design , this overall refinement of the system is critical IMHO.
IGH:
IGH's like Rohloff's are designed for a lot of Torque. Rohloff's have some good reputation and I captured this screenshot from their website.
At 575W, the torque varies between 20Nm to 200Nm. Rohloff's in Optibike R11 should be able to handle this 200Nm PEAK torque.
Shimano nexus or Alfine may not be designed with the same intention of off-road use, so torque specs on them could vary.
Throttle:
Bosch is a EU company and it is illegal to have throttle in E-bikes in EU. I am sure it is part of the big reason. US market is just importing bikes from EU and the same no-throttle rule applies here as well. The throttles that are used in Easy Motion and Izip bikes are add-ons at the factory and it costs $10 to add this feature. Australian/EU Easy Motion bikes don't have throttle.
Comparable bikes to Focus Thron Impulse.
I have been eyeing this Focus Throm Impulse for sometime and I think it is a very good bike.
I have found a better alternative. It is called M1 Spitzing. Truly outstanding in terms of power delivery.
48V, 880Wh battery and the motor produces 120Nm of torque. Very impressive ride.
The Cost is very comparable to Focus Thron Speed at $7K. The race pedelec costs more but the speed pedelec is at 7K.
I know that @Electric Bike Specialists , @Crazy Lenny Ebikes and two more Californian dealers will be carrying them.