Is there a particular reason cargo bikes tend to be hub drive?

[sdtr443w]

I'm surprised that outside of really expensive models that cargo bikes are hub drive. I would figure people would appreciate having the gears--especially some lower, high-torque gears--on a cargo ebike.

 

[Explorer-1]

Because Hub Motors rule! Do you really want to put all that power/torque though a bicycle drive train? Hub motors are where it's at, don't be fooled by all the mid drive bikes if you are primarily using your bike on streets and basic off road trials. If you want more of the feel and connection of a regular bike for controlled execution like with mountain biking, enduro type trail riding, trick riding, then maybe right now a mid-drive is for you. People looking at Cargo bikes are probably better served by a good hub motor.

Just my opinion of course, and maybe 80% on here will disagree with a lot of what I just said.

 

[indianajo]

My cargo bike has 24 speeds, from 52:11 down to 32:32. When the electric throttle fails in a heavy rain, I really do need all those gears. I have a front hub motor, which saves the capacity of the back for 80 lb of groceries. I got 5000 miles on the first 8 speed chain. Try that on a bosch. You'd be replacing the sprockets on the rear and the motor at that milage. Some commuters get 500 miles per 11 speed chain. I like riding, not repairing or taking the bike to the shop. I put on about 2000 miles a year and putting new tires on every year is maintenance enough fro me.
If you really want no exercise plus natural feel, yubabikes xtracycle reiss & mueller and surly are selling mid drive cargo bikes. The yuba is a shimano, that you can ride unpowered without dragging the motor with your feet. I bought a yuba without a motor because they were selling boat anchor bosch in 2017, then I added a geared hub motor later. This got the battery on the front, where I don't have to lift it and the other 80 lb supplies on the back over curbs.

 

[sdtr443w]

What's your general take on the Bosch motors? They look like they're lower power but they claim higher power performance. This is mostly academic now because I have something with a Bafang motor coming in. I saw that's somewhere in the middle for maintenance but it looks like I can find a lot about it and there's some aftermarket.

How are you pulling off 24 speeds with an electric bike?

 

[Nova Haibike]

I'm surprised that outside of really expensive models that cargo bikes are hub drive.

I think you answered your own question; it is a matter of price.

 

[troehrkasse]

I think most of it comes down to price. On a cargo bike, what matters more may be brute strength and durability; Sure, mid-drive is more efficient and can leverage the gears, but a 500 or 750 watt hub motor will be plenty of power, much cheaper, and much more durable. Since mid-drives put more strain on the chain and gears, on a cargo bike it would be even more so with the added weight. I like the ride feel of mid drives better, but if I'm hauling cargo I would say the ride feel is less of a priority since all the cargo weight kind of ruins it anyway

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So R&M are not expensive cargo e-bikes.

 

[None]

Most cargo ebikes have smaller diameter wheels, for motor power output, smaller diameter wheel generate more torque, batter suited for heavy load.

Mid-drive rely on drivetrain to be fully operational, without a heavy duty chain & drivetrain components, moving a heavy load can require more maintenance, poorly maintained drivetrain would wear out the components faster.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I think most of it comes down to price. On a cargo bike, what matters more may be brute strength and durability; Sure, mid-drive is more efficient and can leverage the gears, but a 500 or 750 watt hub motor will be plenty of power, much cheaper, and much more durable. Since mid-drives put more strain on the chain and gears, on a cargo bike it would be even more so with the added weight. I like the ride feel of mid drives better, but if I'm hauling cargo I would say the ride feel is less of a priority since all the cargo weight kind of ruins it anyway

we have a mid drive tandem and it comes in with us maybe 425 pounds. more if we are hauling our grandkid around. we climb literal mountains on it and 18% grades every ride. we get 2000 miles on each 10 speed chain. about the same as my trek commuter. much of a load on a hill the hub and the poor gearing they usually come with is not going to make it nice. the only fast wearing part besides brake pads is the 13t cog since that is the one we cruise in al the time it goes maybe 2000 miles or so.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I'm surprised that outside of really expensive models that cargo bikes are hub drive. I would figure people would appreciate having the gears--especially some lower, high-torque gears--on a cargo ebike.

Because hub-drive motors and their infrastructure (battery, controller, display) are very cheap.

 

[teskow]

Because hub-drive motors and their infrastructure (battery, controller, display) are very cheap.

Because they are cheap? Come on Stefan that is not even a valid point. Bicycle drive train components are not strong enough to withstand heavy loads of a cargo bike. Building a cargo bike with normal bicycle mid-drive drive components is sort of like building a gravel truck on a car drivetrain.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Because they are cheap? Come on Stefan that is not even a valid point. Bicycle drive train components are not strong enough to withstand heavy loads of a cargo bike. Building a cargo bike with normal bicycle mid-drive drive components is sort of like building a gravel truck on a car drivetrain.

Tell it to Riese & Muller or Tern. Cargo mid-drive motors do exist.

 

[PatriciaK]

Just because something is less expensive, doesn't mean it's cheap. I have both a mid drive and rear hub drive bike, and while my hub drive is not expensive (for an ebike), it's not "cheap" (in the sense of crappy poor quality) either. Are there cheap, in the sense noted above, hub drive bikes? Of course! Are ALL hub drives "cheap"? No! A little more nuance in terminology would result in a lot less insult and defensiveness .

 

[fooferdoggie]

Because they are cheap? Come on Stefan that is not even a valid point. Bicycle drive train components are not strong enough to withstand heavy loads of a cargo bike. Building a cargo bike with normal bicycle mid-drive drive components is sort of like building a gravel truck on a car drivetrain.

I don't agree our tandem tends to be up to 450 pounds and it has two people peddling and it does Fine with standard bike components. Plus you're not going off road with a cargo bike or climbing 18% grades. but the bosch motor does great and we get 2000 miles fro the chains about the same as my trek commuter.

 

[TrevorB]

Where 750W motors are allowed a rear hub motor combined with 8spd derailleur is great option for cheap cargo bike. Will need a large >750WH battery to deliver high power draw of these large motors.

For most of world where 250-300W is max motor size middrive is only way to deliver performance on hilly terrain. Drivetrain options are either 11spd high maintenance derailleur or ultra low maintenance belt drive with Nuvinci or Rohloff hub. With more expensive Rohloff having greater gear range and reliability. If you plan to use cargo bike commercially then Rohloff with belt is cheapest long term solution. With almost zero drivetrain maintenance owner won't be wasting valueable time doing maintenance which would be better used doing more deliveries. Upto 30,000km between belts means 6 oil changes for Rohloff and odd belt tension, compared to 10-15 chains, 5 or more cassettes, chainrings and idlers plus dozens of hours on maintenance.

I can get 3000kms from chain commuting but would expect 1500-2000kms from heavily laden cargo bike.

 

[PedalUma]

I am running a friend's bike shop this week while he is in Maui helping to reopen the schools for next week. I dropped of my latest cargo build at his shop yesterday for demos and to put it into circulation out in the world so it can work its magic in our community and take another car off the road. It has been ridden by five experts, they all love it. It is very quiet and powerful with a natural feel. It is a mid-drive. One of its siblings has been ridden every day for two years. The original chain and drivetrain are perfect on that Mundo and it has never had a flat with its Pick Up tires. We have big hills in my area so a mid-drive is the way to go. For similar reasons a mountain bike can't be a hub-drive, I would argue a cargo bike should not be a hub-drive. You really want to have the motor pull chain through the shiftable gears. And as with a mountain bike, you want an extra-wide selection of gears. The lag and surge and overrun on hub-drives is annoying and dangerous in technically tight situations. That hub's rotational weight is a drag to spin up and to slow down.

 

[jabberwocky]

Cost, basically. Cargo bikes already cost more to manufacture and store/ship, so if you want to hit a "reasonable" price point its hard to find the budget for a mid drive. As you go up in budget you'll find they do switch to mid drives though. I can't think of any "high end" manufacturer that specs hub motors on their marquee cargo bikes.

 

[jabberwocky]

Tell it to Riese & Muller or Tern. Cargo mid-drive motors do exist.

Or Surly, or Xtracycle, or Propel... Once you're spending enough they are mid-drive.

Because they are cheap? Come on Stefan that is not even a valid point. Bicycle drive train components are not strong enough to withstand heavy loads of a cargo bike. Building a cargo bike with normal bicycle mid-drive drive components is sort of like building a gravel truck on a car drivetrain.

This... is not really true. Bike chains/drivetrains are very strong and drivetrain loads aren't really that much worse than normal bikes (and probably less than MTBs) unless you're loading hundreds of pounds of stuff on them. Lots of companies make mid-drive cargo bikes and you don't hear about endemic drivetrain failures.

Just because something is less expensive, doesn't mean it's cheap. I have both a mid drive and rear hub drive bike, and while my hub drive is not expensive (for an ebike), it's not "cheap" (in the sense of crappy poor quality) either. Are there cheap, in the sense noted above, hub drive bikes? Of course! Are ALL hub drives "cheap"? No! A little more nuance in terminology would result in a lot less insult and defensiveness .

Nothing wrong with hub motors; I would bet Rad sells 20 Radwagons for every Big Easy Surly sells. The price point where you get into mid drive cargo bikes is several thousand dollars, which is hard to justify for a lot of people. Hub motors are less expensive and mechanically simpler, and the drawbacks (your powered drivetrain being singlespeed and torque sensing being absent or not as refined) probably don't even matter on a utility bike for many people.

 

[6zfshdb]

Another consideration is this: Getting a heavily laden cargo bike started with a torque or cadence sensor can be difficult. Much more so on a slope or if you forget to downshift before stopping. A throttle makes getting started easy but the selection of mid drive cargo bikes equipped with a throttle is somewhat limited.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Another consideration is this: Getting a heavily laden cargo bike started with a torque or cadence sensor can be difficult. Much more so on a slope or if you forget to downshift before stopping. A throttle makes getting started easy but the selection of mid drive cargo bikes equipped with a throttle is somewhat limited.

its not that big of deal our town is full of non e bike cargo bikes and many higher end mid drives and rads. they all seem to manage.