Is it possible to lower the PAS level?

[indianajo]

Is it only women who complain that the bike goes too fast in PAS 1? Yesterday a guy friend (who owns an e-bike) asked me how I liked my new bike and I said I was unhappy with it, because it went too fast in PAS 1. He asked to take it for a ride. He came back and said there was no way he would be able to ride it in PAS 1 for more than a mile, it was too difficult. He said he had to have it in PAS 2 or 3 to be comfortable and he is in good shape! So that tells me that the problem of too much power of PAS 1 is all about the weight of the person riding the bike. He weighs 80 pounds more than I do. Bike manufacturers need to make the controller on women's bikes different than mens!

No, I'm a man and 11 mph PAS1 is too fast for most of the berms I ride on. Pavement is not good there. I only weigh 150 (summer) so that may have something to do with it. My cheapo power wheel kit ($320) display is completely programmable by pushing two buttons power on but there are no instructions as to what any parameter does. I think that PAS measures speed, not power, because I get the same result with just me or with 50 lb supplies in the basket.
BTW I'm a pretty experienced mechanic & I've never had any luck getting new sprockets to match up with any old bike crank. So I've never pulled one apart. I have a 3 speed "austrian racer" frame that would actually fit the bus bike rack but low sprocket is too high to get up hills and 3rd is rediculously high.
Stamped in races (bearing) inhibits me from getting into the middle; it might not go back in again without a press. There aren't any replacement races online. I have a bearing press but holding a bike frame while operating it would be a 2 or 3 man job.

 

[AHicks]

Seems like this issue is becoming confused.

Crankset (forward) and freewheel (rear) are at opposite ends of the chain. Changing either (assuming you go the right way) can make the bike harder to pedal. Yes you are going to go faster if you are pedaling harder. Simple physics.

You cannot currently reconfigure your PAS1.

These are realities that are not going to change any time soon. It is what it is.

If you don't want to spend the money to fix the issue (using either method above), you need a new bike.
If you don't want to go faster, you need a new bike.

 

[Woodie582]

My wife’s Evelo Aurora 750w was to fast in level 1 for her and me, I’m @ 285lbs. Nice for us that Evelo wrote a program and sent us the dongle at no charge and We reflashed the controller for a much improved power curve.

 

[AHicks]

My wife’s Evelo Aurora 750w was to fast in level 1 for her and me, I’m @ 285lbs. Nice for us that Evelo wrote a program and sent us the dongle at no charge and We reflashed the controller for a much improved power curve.

To clarify-
The bike we're talking about is not "too fast" in Pas1. The speed of the PO's bike is related directly to how fast you peddle it. You can go 3-4 mph easily if you want.

In the case of the PO, it's about the effort required to go fast. She, who is no doubt not very heavy, needs less wattage applied while in PAS 1. By her own admission, a heavier guy got on this same bike, and feedback from him after riding was PAS1 didn't supply enough power!

 

[DragNLady]

My wife’s Evelo Aurora 750w was to fast in level 1 for her and me, I’m @ 285lbs. Nice for us that Evelo wrote a program and sent us the dongle at no charge and We reflashed the controller for a much improved power curve.

WOW! What great customer service that is!

To clarify-
The bike we're talking about is not "too fast" in Pas1. The speed of the PO's bike is related directly to how fast you peddle it. You can go 3-4 mph easily if you want.

In the case of the PO, it's about the effort required to go fast. She, who is no doubt not very heavy, needs less wattage applied while in PAS 1. By her own admission, a heavier guy got on this same bike, and feedback from him after riding was PAS1 didn't supply enough power!

You definitely cannot go 3-4mph on level one on my bike.

 

[Alex M]

My cheapo power wheel kit ($320) display is completely programmable by pushing two buttons power on but there are no instructions as to what any parameter does. I think that PAS measures speed, not power, because I get the same result with just me or with 50 lb supplies in the basket.

PAS magnets measure only cadence. But controllers are all different. The OP controller outputs certain amount of power/watts at each respective PAS level. Your controller apparently has certain top speed assigned to each PAS level, and is ramping power up to match this speed.

This doesn't help the OP much, because RAD controller is not programmable, and like others noted, this was not a cost-saving measure. Fully programmable displays like KTLCD3 cost $30 retail, but RAD for some reason decided to "dumb down" their product, not allowing any programming.

 

[AHicks]

WOW! What great customer service that is!

You definitely cannot go 3-4mph on level one on my bike.

If that is true, and I doubt that seriously, then what you have is defective. You should be able to slowly peddle that bike in PAS 1 at a speed so slow you will have trouble keeping your balance. Your speed will be related directly to how fast you are moving those pedals. Pedal slow, you go slow. Pedal fast and you go 15mph, because that's as fast as you (and many others) can peddle.

 

[DragNLady]

Here is a video on how to change the PAS level, the LCD screen "looks" the same as on my Rad City, but obviously isn't, because I can't get this to work. Is it possible to change my display for this one?

 

[DragNLady]

If that is true, and I doubt that seriously, then what you have is defective. You should be able to slowly peddle that bike in PAS 1 at a speed so slow you will have trouble keeping your balance. Your speed will be related directly to how fast you are moving those pedals. Pedal slow, you go slow. Pedal fast and you go 15mph, because that's as fast as you (and many others) can peddle.

NO, that is not correct. if I want to go 3 or 4 mph, I have to STOP pedaling. The slowest I can go on PAS 1, gear7, is about 14mph, with continuous pedaling. If I want to go slower, I have to pedal slower, but then there is NO resistance, I am just spinning my pedals. And I do not believe my bike is defective, I have heard many other people who have the same problem. It is the way RAD has set their controller.

 

[AHicks]

We know Rad's standard PAS setup is not working out for you, and why. That was established quite a ways back.

Nobody is forcing you to use 7th gear when in PAS 1 either. You have 6 other options. Learn to use those to control your speed. That's something that may become more natural as you gain experience riding something like this.

There's a very easy solution here, one that's been discussed quite a bit. Your conversation with 1 tech seems to have shut that possibility down. Just wondering how much time has been spent looking for a different tech, one that's willing to work with you regarding a known fix that has worked out well for so many others?

Have you considered contacting Velofix, the mobile bike repair company fully authorized by RAD to do their warranty repair work? I doubt very seriously RAD will pay for this work, but these folks are very willing I bet, to do anything you ask them to do regarding this bike. https://www.velofix.com/ -Al

 

[DragNLady]

Because I am getting vastly different view points from different people I talk to, I am continuing my search for an answer to my problem before I do anything. When you say no one is "forcing" me to use 7th gear and that I should try lower gears, well, that just does not make any sense whatsoever. If I use a lower gear, my pedals just spin faster with less resistance. Being in 7th gear gives me the most resistance, which is what I am trying to get.

 

[DragNLady]

Reply from the guy who posted his You Tube video on how to change the PAS settings: Yes the displays are the same but they possibly have locked theirs to restrict people from changing them. Best bet would be to contact RAD directly as I'm sure they would be able to help. Worst case scenario you could buy a 2nd display which is unlocked but you need to make sure its programmed right for the motor and controller. Anyway talk to RAD first and if you have any issues email us. Even though we are a New Zealand company we can source parts and sell to people in the US.

 

[DragNLady]

This is what my bike does. I am pedaling as SLOW as I can, without getting any slack while pedaling. In 7th gear. In PAS 4 and 5, I get no resistance at all, it feels like the throttle is on full blast. In PAS 5, I can barely peddle fast enough to not get any slack while pedaling. Why would I ever use PAS 4 or 5, when it goes 19.5mph in PAS 3? Seems pretty crazy to me.

PAS 1 - 14.5mph at 53 watts
PAS 2 - 16mph. at 172 watts
PAS 3 - 19.5 mph at 298 watts
PAS 4 - 20mph at 300-420 watts
PAS 5 - 20.5 mph at 310-450 watts

 

[vincent]

I agree with Bruce, maybe the gearing will help a little but it is not the main problem

Dragnlady did you ever talk to rad and see what they thought?

I think those numbers indicate something is not right with your bike and those numbers are exactly what rad will need from you to help diagnose

Totally understand your frustration , cadence bikes can be different like this and all of them are programmed different also

This is true is torque bikes too....

And then what some people perceive as fast compared to others varies a lot
I ride slow compared to a lot of people on this forum and would be very aggravated with a bike going that fast in pas 1

Talk to rad and see what they say, maybe they will come up with something
Hopefully you just have a defective part on the bike somewhere

 

[DragNLady]

I agree with Bruce, maybe the gearing will help a little but it is not the main problem

Dragnlady did you ever talk to rad and see what they thought?

I think those numbers indicate something is not right with your bike and those numbers are exactly what rad will need from you to help diagnose

Totally understand your frustration , cadence bikes can be different like this and all of them are programmed different also

This is true is torque bikes too....

And then what some people perceive as fast compared to others varies a lot
I ride slow compared to a lot of people on this forum and would be very aggravated with a bike going that fast in pas 1

Talk to rad and see what they say, maybe they will come up with something
Hopefully you just have a defective part on the bike somewhere

Thank you very much Vincent, I have called RAD twice but never got through. Will call the tomorrow morning and report back what they say. Thanks for your help!

 

[vincent]

I have had good luck emailing rad, maybe try that instead of calling

I really think they will try to help you, hopefully something is wrong with the cadence sensor or some other part that can be swapped easy...

 

[DragNLady]

I have had good luck emailing rad, maybe try that instead of calling

I really think they will try to help you, hopefully something is wrong with the cadence sensor or some other part that can be swapped easy...

I did send them the report on the speed my bike gets to at each PAS level, will report back when I hear from them. Thanks!

 

[Sandee]

Wow, I just came across this post today and have read every word of every response because I am considering getting a RadCity Step Thru. Here is a little background. I now have an Evelo Luna (which is no longer made). I got this about 3 yrs ago and I really like it. My husband had a regular 21 speed bike and we did a lot of riding. My Luna made it possible for me to match his riding pace which wasn't too fast....about 10 - 14 mph. I almost always kept my PAS in 1 or 2. This past Spring my husband decided he also needed an electric assist bike. He got the RadCity, 2018 model. He loves it. The problem is his RadCity is leaving my Evelo in the dust. The speed he easily achieves in PAS 1 or 2 I have to have in PAS 5 in order to keep up. This becomes a problem because he wants to ride farther than my battery in PAS 5 is able to accommodate. If I drop the PAS to level 3 to conserve battery power my husband has a hard time going slow enough to match that. Am I making sense? So he has almost convinced me I need to sell my Evelo and get a RadCity. I realize if I get the new 2019 model I won't have the same problems as others have mentioned with earlier models but I am really questioning if this will solve our problem of being able to ride comfortably together. And it isn't just the rider. Although he is heavier he is stronger so that evens that out. And when we switch bikes and I ride his RadCity I have a hard time going slow enough for him to keep up while he is riding my Evelo. I don't want to give up my bike for something I won't be happy with but after spending $2500 for the Evelo I really need to keep any further ebike purchases under $2000. I'd appreciate any thoughts you all may have.

And DragNLady, what about that battery issue? Do you still find it difficult to remove the battery? I thought my husband's battery was awkward to remove and he doesn't have the step thru. I imagine the battery position on the step thru makes it more difficult to remove (?)

 

[vincent]

I think rad can easily answer your questions on how much of a difference there is between level 1 on the 2018 and the 2019- my guess is there is not a whole lot

Rider weight/strength is going to affect some of this but I think it won’t be enough to bother you
If anything maybe you are in level 2 to his level 1...

Sounds like rad has these bikes programmed too fast in level 1 and probably level 2

I cannot figure out the point of a 20mph cut off bike doing 12-14 mph in the first pas level on a 5 level bike????
Wish I could tell you what these companies are thinking but I don’t know

Another thing- thought I read somewhere that evelo can send you a flash drive to reprogram the pas level output etc

But I am not sure that will solve your problem if you are running out of battery
Would certainly be worth talking to them though
Maybe a second battery would be cheaper than a second bike...

Keep us up to date on your solution

 

[DragNLady]

Wow, I just came across this post today and have read every word of every response because I am considering getting a RadCity Step Thru. Here is a little background. I now have an Evelo Luna (which is no longer made). I got this about 3 yrs ago and I really like it. My husband had a regular 21 speed bike and we did a lot of riding. My Luna made it possible for me to match his riding pace which wasn't too fast....about 10 - 14 mph. I almost always kept my PAS in 1 or 2. This past Spring my husband decided he also needed an electric assist bike. He got the RadCity, 2018 model. He loves it. The problem is his RadCity is leaving my Evelo in the dust. The speed he easily achieves in PAS 1 or 2 I have to have in PAS 5 in order to keep up. This becomes a problem because he wants to ride farther than my battery in PAS 5 is able to accommodate. If I drop the PAS to level 3 to conserve battery power my husband has a hard time going slow enough to match that. Am I making sense? So he has almost convinced me I need to sell my Evelo and get a RadCity. I realize if I get the new 2019 model I won't have the same problems as others have mentioned with earlier models but I am really questioning if this will solve our problem of being able to ride comfortably together. And it isn't just the rider. Although he is heavier he is stronger so that evens that out. And when we switch bikes and I ride his RadCity I have a hard time going slow enough for him to keep up while he is riding my Evelo. I don't want to give up my bike for something I won't be happy with but after spending $2500 for the Evelo I really need to keep any further ebike purchases under $2000. I'd appreciate any thoughts you all may have.

And DragNLady, what about that battery issue? Do you still find it difficult to remove the battery? I thought my husband's battery was awkward to remove and he doesn't have the step thru. I imagine the battery position on the step thru makes it more difficult to remove (?)

Hi Sandee, well, just because the Rad City step thru is not the right bike for me, it doesn't mean it is not right for you. Yes, I still find the battery difficult to remove, (it is jammed in there very tight) but I would not let that one thing deter you from buying the bike.

If you had the step-thru, your husband would NOT be leaving you in the dust. It goes FAST!!! Even in PAS 1!!! The slowest I can go in PAS 1 (with continuous pedaling) is just over 14 mph, which it way too fast for me, I feel like I never get any exercise! I want a LITTLE bit of power, AND SOME RESISTANCE, in PAS 1, so I can still get some exercise.

That being said, I did have a guy friend who has an e-bike, take mine for a ride and he said he would not be able to go far in PAS 1, it was too strenuous. He said he would be comfortable in PAS 2 or 3, and he is in very good shape. He weighs 80 pounds more than I do. But it was very interesting for me to find this out, I was shocked. How can 80 pounds make such a difference in the power the bike generates??? It is bizarre to me, but I don't know much about how e-bikes operate.

When I bike with others, (in a group where half do not have e-bikes) I spend at least half my time, not pedaling at all, or I go too fast. You rotate the pedals with NO effort! If you go to PAS 3 and 4, it is like spinning on a stationary bike, no resistance at all. In PAS 5, I can barely pedal fast enough to keep up to the speed that it is generating.

If you don't care about getting any exercise and you just want to keep up with your husband, it may be great bike for you. But I would strongly suggest that you take the bike for a ride before you buy it, and not just down half a block, which is what the store here allowed me to do. They would not even allow me to ride it around the block, they wanted to keep me in sight at all times, they were afraid I was going to steal it, I guess. Not to say I blame them, (I am sure bike stores have had bikes stolen this way before) but they could have just asked for my drivers license and allowed me to take it around the block a few times. You cannot tell how the bike is going to feel by riding it half a block, turning around and riding it half a block back! So you must take it for a decent ride before buying it, to see if it is suitable for you.

And I have ridden 25 miles several times, always on PAS 1 or sometimes 0, and I have not used up more than one bar, so the battery, although difficult to remove, does take you a LONG way. Hope this helps! Let us know what you decide to do. Good luck!