Is anyone trying to solve charging on the road?

[BBassett]

Hypothetical only if you’re riding Bosch/Yamaha. The large packs and fast chargers mentioned in this thread appear to already exist for other users .

I see no problem with walking and chewing gum at the same time. I can like my Bosch bike on shorter trips but also advocate for needed extensions to functionality according to my priorities.

This is exactly why my point in always suggesting to potential ebike buyers that the initial decision to use a 30Ah pack is most important... especially since no manufactures are producing ebikes with anything close to them. Once you understand that the heart of an ebike (for the moment) isn't the motor as much as it is the battery you look at ebikes is a totally different light. With that understanding, riders should simply turn away from production ebikes for better options until manufactures can produce a better product.

 

[GypsyTreker]

Surely you folks realise that not everyone deals in nor are they pursuing high tech answers to problems or conditions that do not, if new to eBikes, effect them one iota. I can see this thread confusing new folks researching the purchase of an eBike and the fun it might be to overnight with one. I get the idea of extending battery life on expensive LiPo packs but when you can replace the 500watters for under $300 why make it an issue? I say that expecting at least being close to serviceable useage. Then there is the very real varience in "needed range", not everyone has the same considerations. I have some lower back and knee issues so I'm feeling it around 25-28 miles ( I don't use the throttle) and according to my bar indicator ( I know they are horribly inaccurate) I'm past half but no noticable loss of power. I purchased a voltage/amp meter I plan on installing this weekend ( If I'm not out riding) to get a better grip. I do know where I ride there would be lodging or charging available to me and I would want the excuse to take a break. So how much would I increase the "fun factor" if I invested in a Luna charger and upgraded batteries? Sell me, don't tell me.

 

[BBassett]

Surely you folks realise that not everyone deals in nor are they pursuing high tech answers to problems....

The 500C display shows battery voltage and that's all that you really need. Oh, AND, you can read it, unlike the EggRider. I agree with you. KISS, or KIASAP... Keep it as simple as possible.

Ride safe

 

[dblhelix]

but when you can replace the 500watters for under $300 why make it an issue?

This is a great example of why lecturing others on what they should (or shouldn’t) be worrying about is a waste of time.

As far as riders who only require 25 miles of range are concerned, I‘d say that a thread titled “Is anyone trying to solve charging on the road” may not be optimal in addressping your particular issues. IIRC, the OP is from MN and interested in distance touring for which nightly charging may not be available or fast charging/larger batteries may be desirable. One idea is those who are not interested should start a thread focused on shorter travel.

In NV, the governor has signed a bill requiring fast charging stations every 50miles, even in the most desolate areas. When I asked if the stations would include ordinary outlets for ebikes, I was told no, because nobody had thought about this. Squeaky wheels get the grease. It’s hardly a terrible idea to talk about desired charging infrastructure even if it’s something you don’t need tomorrow.

 

[dblhelix]

This is exactly why my point in always suggesting to potential ebike buyers that the initial decision to use a 30Ah pack is most important... especially since no manufactures are producing ebikes with anything close to them. Once you understand that the heart of an ebike (for the moment) isn't the motor as much as it is the battery you look at ebikes is a totally different light. With that understanding, riders should simply turn away from production ebikes for better options until manufactures can produce a better product.

I think your point is valid. However, there are also valid reasons not to want to carry two large triangle packs. I’d be interested to hear some of the your estimates for a single pack. What is its weight? What is your range on average based on using 60% of your pack?

 

[BBassett]

This is a great example of why lecturing others on what they should (or shouldn’t) be worrying about is a waste of time.

As far as riders who only require 25 miles of range are concerned, I‘d say that a thread titled “Is anyone trying to solve charging on the road” may not be optimal in addressping your particular issues. IIRC, the OP is from MN and interested in distance touring for which nightly charging may not be available or fast charging/larger batteries may be desirable. One idea is those who are not interested should start a thread focused on shorter travel.

In NV, the governor has signed a bill requiring fast charging stations every 50miles, even in the most desolate areas. When I asked if the stations would include ordinary outlets for ebikes, I was told no, because nobody had thought about this. Squeaky wheels get the grease. It’s hardly a terrible idea to talk about desired charging infrastructure even if it’s something you don’t need tomorrow.

“Is anyone trying to solve charging on the road”... yup, with a 300W folding solar panel and a Satiator, both reasonable expensive (for average ebike owners) and beyond what most people are willing to both pay for and travel with. People are looking for a bandaid to a problem that doesn't exist (fast-charging) when you purchase a large, high-quality pack and more than the cheapest chargers sold with production bikes.

Fast charging batteries for e-bikes

The Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (KIT) has teamed up with Coboc to make the batteries in electric bikes capable of fast charging.

www.eenewspower.com

As far as riders who only require 25 miles of range are concerned... use a real battery (large) charge it and ride 3 days without having to charge again. When you Do recharge and use a Satiator you can charge at its highest amperage (fastest) without stressing the battery and getting 3X the life for your money. It can't be more simple than that.

It seems to me people pose questions to ask questions rather than actually needing answers to problems that they don't really have.

I do love seeing ebike charging thought about when public construction projects are being planned.

 

[GypsyTreker]

You have a valid point as to where I might be best served for information pertaining to my needs. Fact is most folk my age will look for the most informed information available in order to proceed with a purchase, modification or simply knowledge that might arm them when dealing with a retailer. My take has been that this thread has contained some emotional debate and confusion. Not passing judgement just stating a layman's observation. Perhaps a more specific thread would be better for the shorter distance group.

 

[tomjasz]

You have a valid point as to where I might be best served for information pertaining to my needs. Fact is most folk my age will look for the most informed information available in order to proceed with a purchase, modification or simply knowledge that might arm them when dealing with a retailer. My take has been that this thread has contained some emotional debate and confusion. Not passing judgement just stating a layman's observation. Perhaps a more specific thread would be better for the shorter distance group.

In the end, I think you're correct. There's a tendency by some posters to want to convince us their choices are the only good choices. When In fact many can and will be happy with a well-matched battery, BMS, and motor. I have a 13Ah battery on a 36V BBS01 from 2014 that still delivers a minimum of 27 miles to a charge. Probably more but I don't demand more. I ride that bike on the local paths all summer. Some would have us believe only mid drives will provide the performance we need others will claim only a monster hub drive will meet their needs. In the end, it's what floats your boat.

 

[dblhelix]

My take has been that this thread has contained some emotional debate and confusion.

My take is that’s the internet.

You should absolutely start a thread to get questions answered or tips You think might be useful. I might be confusing you with someone else, but aren’t you in FL? I’m going to FL to test a new set-up over (academic Spring Break) in March, so perhaps I’ll learn something from you. If your topic is specific to your bike brand, that sub-forum is another to consider. Looking forward to everything you have to offer.

 

[BBassett]

I think your point is valid. However, there are also valid reasons not to want to carry two large triangle packs. I’d be interested to hear some of the your estimates for a single pack. What is its weight? What is your range on average based on using 60% of your pack?

My bike is designed for touring and carrying full panniers and lots of gear, with that being said, I have a minimum load that I always ride with (the 1st picture below) that is about 60 lbs total. The only time I carry both packs is when I have the trailer with me, simply haven't needed it otherwise. The bike can be stripped down further for more aggressive single track riding (2nd picture), medium load carrying (3rd picture), heavy load (4th picture), and U-Haul load (5th picture) for moving between base-camps.

I have two 52V triangle battery packs from EM3 (both non-BT) (28Ah and 32Ah) and they both weigh 17 pounds each. 30Ah @ 58.8V charge (1.764Kw). That gives me 18Ah (1.058Kw) of usable capacity while still not using more than 60% of the packs capacity.

With the bike totally stripped down I can ride over 100 miles easily if I charge the pack to 80% and still not deplete past 20% capacity... always trying to maximize the number of recharge cycles. In my "normal" riding configuration I have ridden in excess of 80 miles on the same 60% capacity. In full U'Haul mode, I have ridden up to 65 miles before swapping packs, again only using 60% overall capacity. But let me say it's way more work to ride a heavily loaded ebike than one would think. It can change the laws of physics in very unpredictable ways.

Building your ebike around a 30Ah Lithium pack (or at least the ability to carry one) is... in my opinion, the best place to start.

 

[BBassett]

...but when you can replace the 500watters for under $300 why make it an issue? ...

30 amp hour X 58.8 volts = 1764 watts or 1.76 kilowatts. EM3 sells non-BT 30Ah packs for between 6 and 7 hundred dollars... not sure since they are out-of-stock at the moment.

For individuals that can understand the horrible and costly effects of stressing lithium packs by using more than 60% (charge to 80% deplete to 20% = 60%) of their capacity on a regular basis. It's easy to see the advantages of a large pack over several smaller packs.

60% of 500W is 300W
60% of 1764W is 1058W
3 X 300W = 900W
900W < 1058W

3 500W packs weigh more than a single 30Ah pack.

A single 30Ah pack can be charged faster than smaller packs and without playing switch-a-roo in the middle of the night.

Disadvantages of a large single pack over lesser packs: Initial cost and weight.

 

[GypsyTreker]

Serious range! Don't think I don't ponder the long ride with a hammock set up and a great book for the evening a good cup of java in the am. Bikepacking, touring enamored me even when I was young enough to pedal power. Perhaps as I begin to build my stamina back I will extend my range and all this info will be invaluable.


Thanks guys

 

[BBassett]

Serious range! Don't think I don't ponder the long ride with a hammock set up and a great book for the evening a good cup of java in the am. Bikepacking, touring enamored me even when I was young enough to pedal power. Perhaps as I begin to build my stamina back I will extend my range and all this info will be invaluable.

Thanks guys

The right battery, motor, and frame and you don't need much stamina to enjoy touring again.

Ride safe.

P.S. I take my coffee press with me everywhere I go.

 

[Mass Deduction]

[...]
3 500W packs weigh more than a single 30Ah pack.
[...]

The 500Wh packs are often in the 13-15 Ah range each, though, so two might be a closer comparison. What's the Wh rating of this infamous 30 Ah pack of which you speak?

Since I sometimes can pre-seed a route with batteries (leaving them with friends, relatives, and with businesses I have a connection with), that's an advantage to the 500 Wh/14 Ah packs that are available for my current e-bike. That way I'm effectively getting increased battery capacity without having to carry as much weight.

I suppose if I had to choose between carrying a super-heavy pack everywhere (even for short rides), or having the flexibility to use a lightweight pack for small rides, I'd go with the lightweight option (even knowing that it would mean carrying multiple packs for super long rides).

I started with a 55 pound e-bike. Then I upgraded to a 49 pound bike. Now I've upgraded to a 42.5 pound e-bike. My next bike will probably be 33 pounds. I don't think I'd be willing to accept the weight penalty that comes with converting a bike (which also voids its warranty) and putting on a massive battery. All too often that puts you in the 60+ pound range, and I don't think I'd enjoy pedalling a bike like that.

It's also not what I need most of the time, since super long trips that need a super-huge battery are a relative rarity for me. My day-to-day riding is mostly relatively short trips, and a lightweight bike is more enjoyable for that.

 

[dblhelix]

30 amp hour X 58.8 volts = 1764 watts or 1.76 kilowatts. EM3 sells non-BT 30Ah packs for between 6 and 7 hundred dollars... not sure since they are out-of-stock at the moment.

For individuals that can understand the horrible and costly effects of stressing lithium packs by using more than 60% (charge to 80% deplete to 20% = 60%) of their capacity on a regular basis. It's easy to see the advantages of a large pack over several smaller packs.

60% of 500W is 300W
60% of 1764W is 1058W
3 X 300W = 900W
900W < 1058W

3 500W packs weigh more than a single 30Ah pack.

A single 30Ah pack can be charged faster than smaller packs and without playing switch-a-roo in the middle of the night.

Disadvantages of a large single pack over lesser packs: Initial cost and weight.

The comparison of your pack to Bosch is two PowerPacks (about 11lb). 80-65 miles range is about the same for lightly to heavily loaded in the dual PowerPack configuration. Of course, I’m estimating using 20% as the lower limit of discharge but closer to 100% on the upper limit. Since I’m never storing the battery full, I don’t worry about stress + I’ll admit it: I subscribe to YOLO on this and am egged on by no perceptible decline in capacity of my oldest PowerPack placed into service mid-2017.

Your setup definitely “wins” on charging time and charger capability.

 

[GypsyTreker]

Ok...where would I find some help with my multi meter that arrived last night. It's the bayrite multi function

 

[BBassett]

The 500Wh packs are often...

...What's the Wh rating of this infamous 30 Ah pack of which you speak? 1764 as stated above. Also, sorry... but you got this backward too...
------------------------------------
in·fa·mous

adjective
well known for some bad quality or deed.
------------------------------------
I think you meant Outstanding!

Since I sometimes can pre-seed a route... You ride the same route again and again?

I suppose if I had to choose between carrying a super-heavy pack everywhere (even for short rides), or having the flexibility to use a lightweight pack for small rides, I'd go with the lightweight option... Until you are caught short.

... I don't think I'd enjoy pedalling a bike like that. - It's like having a large girl-friend, you don't notice the weight after a very short time.

It's also not what I need most of the time, since super long trips that need a super-huge battery are a relative rarity for me. My day-to-day riding is mostly relatively short trips, and a lightweight bike is more enjoyable for that. Some of "us" choose to buy and ride just a single bike that can do it all, everything you are talking about anyway.

Ride safe.

 

[BBassett]

The comparison of your pack to Bosch is two PowerPacks (about 11lb). 80-65 miles range is about the same for lightly to heavily loaded in the dual PowerPack configuration. Of course, I’m estimating using 20% as the lower limit of discharge but closer to 100% on the upper limit. Since I’m never storing the battery full, I don’t worry about stress + I’ll admit it: I subscribe to YOLO on this and am egged on by no perceptible decline in capacity of my oldest PowerPack placed into service mid-2017.

Your setup definitely “wins” on charging time and charger capability.

And range can be such a fluid thing. Younger and more in shape riders could probably shatter my distance records with my same battery on my bike.

 

[Ebiker01]

49 pound bike. Now I've upgraded to a 42.5 pound e-bike.

What were youriding before and what did you upgraded too ?
42lb for a commuter/mtb. ebike must be either carbon fiber frame or a aluminum one stripped of all add ons(fenders/ rack, etc..)

 

[Mass Deduction]

You ride the same route again and again?

I live on Vancouver Island which, if you look at it on a map, is relatively tall and is mostly populated on its East side. Whether I'm riding up-island and back, or whether I'm going partway up-island then detouring to the mainland, most long trips start the same way, with a 100km ride heading North-Northwest. I have several places along that 100km stretch that I can leave batteries, as needed.

I do occasionally head West. And I do occasionally take the ferry to Washington State. But yes, most of my big trips start by heading straight up-island.

Until you are caught short.

You can be caught short with one big battery, as easily as you can if you take multiple smaller batteries. Getting caught short is about the amount of battery power you take with you vs. your need, not how big each battery is.

It's like having a large girl-friend, you don't notice the weight after a very short time.

Except that it's inherently inefficient. You have to push all that weight around, which will drain the battery faster, which is working at odds with having the extra battery capacity.

If I have a 42 pound bike that sometimes requires me to carry an extra battery, or even two, I'd still take that over a 60+ pound bike any day. If it's a 42 pound bike most of the time, a 42+6 pound bike occasionally, and a 42+12 pound bike very rarely, that's still much more desirable for me than a 60+ pound bike.

And my next e-bike may be as lightweight as 33 pounds.

Some of "us" choose to buy and ride just a single bike that can do it all, everything you are talking about anyway.

Me too. The reason I have been trying different bikes is in the interest of finding that one-bike-to-rule-them-all. I don't like to change bikes for the sake of changing them... prior to getting my first e-bike in early 2019, I was riding a muscle bike from 2007. I never change bikes just 'cause, I only change them when I find a good reason to.