Is anyone trying to solve charging on the road?

[john peck]

Looking on google maps I´ve noticed a couple of Tesla charging stations not too far from my location,
& I got to thinking why isn´t someone doing this for ebikes. Seems to me that a small business like a
cafe, bar, coffee shop,(gas station?) could benefit from say 4 keyed lockers with a charging port inside,
say $1 an hour. Riders are gonna hang around & spend money; they´re not going anywhere ´til charged.
It wouldn´t take much to construct one really as long as they had they´re own charger. Simpler still one
could just offer to pay a small fee in such establishments. Why not have them in campgrounds? With
businesses suffering from the pandemic, it might help to put out a small sign, ´Eblikes charged here´.

 

[Bitmugger]

Looking on google maps I´ve noticed a couple of Tesla charging stations not too far from my location,
& I got to thinking why isn´t someone doing this for ebikes. Seems to me that a small business like a
cafe, bar, coffee shop,(gas station?) could benefit from say 4 keyed lockers with a charging port inside,
say $1 an hour. Riders are gonna hang around & spend money; they´re not going anywhere ´til charged.
It wouldn´t take much to construct one really as long as they had they´re own charger. Simpler still one
could just offer to pay a small fee in such establishments. Why not have them in campgrounds? With
businesses suffering from the pandemic, it might help to put out a small sign, ´Eblikes charged here´.

I'd see the issue being that lots of batteries from 24v to 60v take the same small barrel charger. The charge station could be sending 48v down the line to a 24v battery, plus it depends on the battery for sure having a current limiter on the charge circuit which if someone plugs in a lead-acid or gel battery they typically don't have current limiters (aside from what their chemistry provides) and I am skeptical 100% of the LiPo batteries in the real world are being used with current limiting on the charge circuit.

Voltage can be sensed but even that's not enough, if it sees "41v" it could assume it's a 48v battery but if it's LiPo is charged at 54.6 but if it's lead acid it'll be full around 52v.

Great idea for the charge stations but I think just offering a 120v AC (for north america) socket would be a decent solution and rely on people to bring chargers. But yes coffee shops should have some signs like "charge your ebike here!". Your idea is really fantastic if the battery manufacturers would standardize some of the charging technology such as linking specific plug types/pins to voltage or making things smart so the battery/bms would communicate; "Hey I need 54.6v and support a maximum current of 4A" or if the batteries all reliably have current limiting built in.

 

[Ebiker01]

For the blue bike,

Q- What r the specs of the 2 hubs motor ebike and what trailer is that ? Looks very rugged, built for a world tour !

 

[m@Robertson]

Q- What r the specs of the 2 hubs motor ebike and what trailer is that ? Looks very rugged, built for a world tour !

Go here and scroll down to The Great Pumpkin. There's a linked article on the AWD setup there as well. In short: 52v, 31ah pack w/90a continuous BMS, twin 35a controllers, dual 80Nm motors.

Also thats not a trailer its a longtail cargo bike. A Surly Big Fat Dummy, and I added those wideloaders to it - thats the pipe framework in the back that serves as a load-bearing shelf for the 138L (each) panniers. Its written up in detail as well.

The Pacific Fleet

or… I Have Too Many Damn Ebikes Since I got back into bikes (thanks to ebikes being a viable platform to let this cardiac-issues ex-cyclist start riding again), I have gotten right back into …

talesontwowheels.com

These are the sorts of ebikes you want to ensure never run out of juice.

 

[john peck]

I'd see the issue being that lots of batteries from 24v to 60v take the same small barrel charger. The charge station could be sending 48v down the line to a 24v battery, plus it depends on the battery for sure having a current limiter on the charge circuit which if someone plugs in a lead-acid or gel battery they typically don't have current limiters (aside from what their chemistry provides) and I am skeptical 100% of the LiPo batteries in the real world are being used with current limiting on the charge circuit.

Voltage can be sensed but even that's not enough, if it sees "41v" it could assume it's a 48v battery but if it's LiPo is charged at 54.6 but if it's lead acid it'll be full around 52v.

Great idea for the charge stations but I think just offering a 120v AC (for north america) socket would be a decent solution and rely on people to bring chargers. But yes coffee shops should have some signs like "charge your ebike here!". Your idea is really fantastic if the battery manufacturers would standardize some of the charging technology such as linking specific plug types/pins to voltage or making things smart so the battery/bms would communicate; "Hey I need 54.6v and support a maximum current of 4A" or if the batteries all reliably have current limiting built in.

I agree, why would they be travelling without their own charger. It is the simpler solution

 

[harryS]

Looking on google maps I´ve noticed a couple of Tesla charging stations not too far from my location,
& I got to thinking why isn´t someone doing this for ebikes. Seems to me that a small business like a
cafe, bar, coffee shop,(gas station?) could benefit from say 4 keyed lockers with a charging port inside,
say $1 an hour. Riders are gonna hang around & spend money; they´re not going anywhere ´til charged.
It wouldn´t take much to construct one really as long as they had they´re own charger. Simpler still one
could just offer to pay a small fee in such establishments. Why not have them in campgrounds? With
businesses suffering from the pandemic, it might help to put out a small sign, ´Eblikes charged here´.

Most bikes come with chargers that put out about 2 amps at best. So you will only get 2Ah in an hour. Now I could squeeze out 10 miles out of 2AH, but then I'm riding so slow, some wouldn't call that ebiking,

In the future though, we'll see turbocharge options built into ebike batteries. Or they will standardize on cartridges that can be removed from the battery case and go into a fast charger or be carried as spares, just like AA and D cells, only they will be called M cells.

As a DIY ebiker, I can carry whatever I need as far as spare AH.

 

[BarnBoy]

Now let's see if they provide 120V outlets or some ridiculous proprietary adapter. It will also be interesting to see how long they are "free". I had a GREAT dealer in high school he would often let me try new goodies "for free"... you know, little taste.

Here is my newest way to access additional existing EV power sources... when it's done and tested. 220V to 120V female for a Grn Satiator.View attachment 69020View attachment 69021View attachment 69022

For the folks looking for a J1772 to C13 (standard power cord for most electronics) I found this adapter that will work for Grin and other battery chargers. Not all electric car charger stations are free.....
-BB

 

[john peck]

Most bikes come with chargers that put out about 2 amps at best. So you will only get 2Ah in an hour. Now I could squeeze out 10 miles out of 2AH, but then I'm riding so slow, some wouldn't call that ebiking,

In the future though, we'll see turbocharge options built into ebike batteries. Or they will standardize on cartridges that can be removed from the battery case and go into a fast charger or be carried as spares, just like AA and D cells, only they will be called M cells.

As a DIY ebiker, I can carry whatever I need as far as spare AH.

In a pinch I can carry 4 batteries,(55 ah), but a fast charging site would be nice. I´d rather that 30 odd pds
of weight be otherwise useful cargo. It´s true, a 2 amp charger is not remotely speedy, but the technology
already exists, yet to be implemented for lighter, faster charging, cheaper, & more environmental batteries.
I hope such patents will not be purchased & then buried as have so many innovations in past.

 

[K PierreR]

In a pinch I can carry 4 batteries,(55 ah), but a fast charging site would be nice. I´d rather that 30 odd pds
of weight be otherwise useful cargo. It´s true, a 2 amp charger is not remotely speedy, but the technology
already exists, yet to be implemented for lighter, faster charging, cheaper, & more environmental batteries.
I hope such patents will not be purchased & then buried as have so many innovations in past.

I have a52v 4 battery pack and charge it with a 15 amp charger. Pulls about 800-900 watts from a plug. That is about half the capacity of a 15 amp circuit and I figure that I probably won't blow a circuit breaker plugging into that. It's a cheap charger and seems to work fine so far.

 

[NightRider1]

I agree, why would they be traveling without their own charger, it is the simpler solution.

Most chargers, including cables, are small enough to carry them in a pouch on the bike. However, as long as battery technology does not improve and public charging facilities are scarce, traveling with e-bikes will always be a problem.

 

[Gionnirocket]

What I do is not quite fast charging, but its onboard charging and I have three different bikes set up this way.

First of all, I use a weatherproof, adjustable charger (adj for current - amps - and voltage). Like a Satiator but without the fancy user interface. These units are extremely durable and have MTBF's typically in the hundreds of thousands of hours. Commercially, they are used in LED street light applications and they are meant to be in use, trouble-free, for many years. Reportedly, the Satiator is based on this kind of product but with a display screen / UI added in. I have one myself, and it certainly behaves identically to one of these LED power supplies. I originally started using these simply to acquire a reliable charger that never fails. The on-bike mounting came later on.

An Ultra Reliable Ebike Battery Charger…

How about a charger – quickly adjustable for voltage and current – that is rated for hundreds of thousands of hours of use before it typically fails?

talesontwowheels.com

This one pictured below is a 320w unit bolted to a front rack. Thats a 5.5a charger on this 52v bike. The cables are in a downward-facing dump pouch just behind it on the handlebars. The battery charge cable leaves the triangle just behind the head tube so easy to attach. Pic beside it is the same bike connected up at a city park. For the blue bike, you can see the charger forward, sheltered under the upper deck. There are typically outlets at park canopies and they are a great free power source. I've also cast about and know where there are other outlets available (where the gourmet taco trucks hang out for example).

If I am traveling on a bike that has no onboard unit and I have any concerns about range, a water bottle pouch holding a charger is tossed into a pannier.
View attachment 84772View attachment 84776
View attachment 84777View attachment 84778
So, while fast charging is still nonexistent, what you can have is onboard charging with a weatherproof unit that is as fast as your battery can safely take power.

I also carry along one of these as well so in case I am asking to use a power plug that is already occupied, I have a shot at being told its OK to share.

https://amzn.to/3adT6C6

Interesting use of the LED Power Supply as a charger.
I have no use for on the road charging at this point.. but I do on occasion use a bench top power supply that allows a Constant Current setting of 0.1 to 5.0a. A lot more stable than the typical charger and easily allows for a proper 100% charge.

 

[Bitmugger]

I have a52v 4 battery pack and charge it with a 15 amp charger. Pulls about 800-900 watts from a plug. That is about half the capacity of a 15 amp circuit and I figure that I probably won't blow a circuit breaker plugging into that. It's a cheap charger and seems to work fine so far.

If we are talking North America then that's about 7.5amps it's pulling, that must make for quick charging! It's safe to say either through the BMS or chemistry of the batteries it's current limiting you to 7.5amps but that's plenty for a NA socket, drawing much past 1400watts/12amp continuous through a socket is frowned on. Not sure the capacity of your 52v pack as it sounds like it's 4 batteries combined but how long does it take to charge and what's it's capacity.

 

[theemartymac]

Looking on google maps I´ve noticed a couple of Tesla charging stations not too far from my location,
& I got to thinking why isn´t someone doing this for ebikes. Seems to me that a small business like a
cafe, bar, coffee shop,(gas station?) could benefit from say 4 keyed lockers with a charging port inside,
say $1 an hour. Riders are gonna hang around & spend money; they´re not going anywhere ´til charged.
It wouldn´t take much to construct one really as long as they had they´re own charger. Simpler still one
could just offer to pay a small fee in such establishments. Why not have them in campgrounds? With
businesses suffering from the pandemic, it might help to put out a small sign, ´Eblikes charged here´.

My city (Victoria BC) does have a small network of public bike charging plugs, but without a standardized charging system on most bikes, and no high speed capacity, they are just 110v wall plugs. Hopefully the next-gen batteries will accommodate some fast charge capability, and manufacturers will begin to establish some common standards so we can move that direction.

 

[K PierreR]

If we are talking North America then that's about 7.5amps it's pulling, that must make for quick charging! It's safe to say either through the BMS or chemistry of the batteries it's current limiting you to 7.5amps but that's plenty for a NA socket, drawing much past 1400watts/12amp continuous through a socket is frowned on. Not sure the capacity of your 52v pack as it sounds like it's 4 batteries combined but how long does it take to charge and what's it's capacity.

My battery capacity is 2,538 Wh all in parallel. It takes me about two hours to charge from 30% back to 90% or, 1,500 Wh

I live on the Northern edge of the largest Amish area in the country. The Amish in this area are about 60% e bike and 40% buggy for their everyday needs. It used to be that the Walmart's and other stores, had car parking and hitching posts. Now they have car parking, hitching posts and e bike charging stations. The Amish are not hooked to the grid and therefore depend on such an infrastructure. They patronize whomever they charge from.
The Amish have to have some big batteries and illegal bikes. I got passed the other day by an Amish guy whom was using throttle only and pulling a trailer with a large Goat, five chickens and some other stuff in there. I was at 20 mph and it was uphill.

 

[theemartymac]

I live on the Northern edge of the largest Amish area in the country. The Amish in this area are about 60% e bike and 40% buggy for their everyday needs. It used to be that the Walmart's and other stores, had car parking and hitching posts. Now they have car parking, hitching posts and e bike charging stations. The Amish are not hooked to the grid and therefore depend on such an infrastructure. They patronize whomever they charge from.
The Amish have to have some big batteries and illegal bikes. I got passed the other day by an Amish guy whom was using throttle only and pulling a trailer with a large Goat, five chickens and some other stuff in there. I was at 20 mph and it was uphill.

Ya, but Jesus is his co pilot, so he probably has a helping hand.

 

[john peck]

My city (Victoria BC) does have a small network of public bike charging plugs, but without a standardized charging system on most bikes, and no high speed capacity, they are just 110v wall plugs. Hopefully the next-gen batteries will accommodate some fast charge capability, and manufacturers will begin to establish some common standards so we can move that direction.

The process of civilizing the U.S. is a work in progress.

 

[m@Robertson]

Interesting use of the LED Power Supply as a charger.
I have no use for on the road charging at this point.. but I do on occasion use a bench top power supply that allows a Constant Current setting of 0.1 to 5.0a. A lot more stable than the typical charger and easily allows for a proper 100% charge.

Yes Mean Wells in particular have been used by DIY builders for some time as ultra-reliable units and I have to say I have had zero failures since I started using them myself.

I recently plugged a 60v/300w power supply at my 'work residence' and another at my office garage. Ostensibly because of the more convenient coarse/fine dials for voltage and current dialing, plus the bigger, more precise display.

The Mean Wells define 'constant current' as a constant amperage level. Set it to 1.0a and the current stays at 1.0a regardless of the voltage - until it starts to draw down as it approaches target voltage level. However, the power supplies both treat constant current as maintaining wattage output. So if I set to 1.0a, the amperage will inch down as voltage increases from start to finish, with the wattage being what remains constant. For my first few uses I had a hard time figuring out what was going on until I looked at the wattage and realized it was staying the same.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Yes Mean Wells in particular have been used by DIY builders for some time as ultra-reliable units and I have to say I have had zero failures since I started using them myself.

I recently plugged a 60v/300w power supply at my 'work residence' and another at my office garage. Ostensibly because of the more convenient coarse/fine dials for voltage and current dialing, plus the bigger, more precise display.

The Mean Wells define 'constant current' as a constant amperage level. Set it to 1.0a and the current stays at 1.0a regardless of the voltage - until it starts to draw down as it approaches target voltage level. However, the power supplies both treat constant current as maintaining wattage output. So if I set to 1.0a, the amperage will inch down as voltage increases from start to finish, with the wattage being what remains constant. For my first few uses I had a hard time figuring out what was going on until I looked at the wattage and realized it was staying the same.

My power supply works exactly as my charger does which is equal to the Mean Wells definition. The wattage is increasing as the voltage is increasing, but the Set Current remains unchanged until it reached near the End Voltage / Constant Voltage setting. With both my charger and bench top power supply the switch over from CC to CV is at 54.3v... At which point the current steps down steadily approaching 54.6 on a 48v pack
I agree it is a bit confusing to set up and watch on first set up.
I find the power supply does a better job of reaching 100% as it deals with the voltage bounces better as a charger shuts down at 54.6v then the system voltage drops and can bounce back up as the charger restarts. This doesn't happen with the bench top power supply so it is imperative to monitor and implement other safety measures such as a timer and/or voltage switching relay of which I have done both.

 

[K PierreR]

Yes Mean Wells in particular have been used by DIY builders for some time as ultra-reliable units and I have to say I have had zero failures since I started using them myself.

Thanks for the info. I went to the Mean Wells site and only find one charger that would work in a wet environment to charge a 52 volt battery. At least I think its the only one. An HEP-100-48. About $400

 

[BarnBoy]

Thanks for the info. I went to the Mean Wells site and only find one charger that would work in a wet environment to charge a 52 volt battery. At least I think its the only one. An HEP-100-48. About $400

@K PierreR - that is a 100w 48v ac/dc power supply. It is not a current mode battery charger....
-BB