Input for long range commuter build?

[indianajo]

@4speed
I didn't really want to use hose clamps. But some combination of nuts, bolts and cable ties might do the trick!

Hose clamps are good for 1/4 kg maybe. Made in *****, of grey metal. Tensile strength ????. Stainless, but lead doesn't rust, either. Lots of pictures on internet of hub motors with twisted off wires where the torque arm was secured with hose clamps.
Cable ties, even the 1 cm ones, not much tensile strength. Wouldn't hold my panniers on. Oleofin bale twine 3mm, works fine for that. Bale twine has to be bought in 50 kg rolls, but I find snarls of it thrown in the ditch in agricultural areas.
Steel 2mm cable with pair of cable clamps, 200 kg. 18 ga x 2.5 cm wide flat roll steel, 100 kg?.

 

[4speed]

I printed a template this morning to check my downtube dimensions... the template fits reasonably well. Now to design some kind of a bracket/BOB bar! Ha!

I didn't really want to use hose clamps. But some combination of nuts, bolts and cable ties might do the trick!

Real neat, those custom clamps! Can you estimate their strength other than by just trial? I mean, is there data for the material to do calculations?

Hose clamps is not my top preference either, by far, but in this case more for looks than performance. It is an easy way to secure a rail to the frame, with a gentle and reasonably uniform pressure. Tensile strength is many times more than enough, and what is important for securing the battery to the frame is not just straight pulling force but also the friction between rail-rubber-tube.

Cable ties can be found with impressive performance over here (and I am sure also in the US), but I often find it hard to tighten them to any actual preload. They often end up very static and a bit too loose, imho.

 

[m@Robertson]

Not sure if this will help you gents in your projects, but I have seen folks use this Duratruss bit. Its the 'Big Jr.' model and is rated for 100 kg. Goes up to a 41mm diameter tube. There are other sizes. Used a lot more in the EU than the USA because they are not sold in the USA and so you have to have them shipped over.

Duratruss BIG Jr. Clamp 100kg Black

Mounting bracket Suitable for trusses with 38 - 41 mm diameter, Material: Aluminium 6061 T6, Screw: M10 x 30, Maximum load/SWL: 100kg, Dimensions (W x H): 58.3 x 30.0 mm (without screw), Weight: 0.133 kg, Colour: Black

www.thomannmusic.com

 

[PedalUma]

A lot of bikes do not have bottle bosses. Rivnuts work but if it it is not perfect, then you dilled a hole in someone's bike and screwed up. I use these things all the time. On some batteries I use three. Verca Mounts are inexpensive and work well. I apply them to a frame with fiber grip paste, so they won't move. A bike packer could put spare batteries on a fork so the weight is low down.

 

[4speed]

Not sure if this will help you gents in your projects, but I have seen folks use this Duratruss bit. Its the 'Big Jr.' model and is rated for 100 kg. Goes up to a 41mm diameter tube. There are other sizes. Used a lot more in the EU than the USA because they are not sold in the USA and so you have to have them shipped over.

Duratruss BIG Jr. Clamp 100kg Black

Mounting bracket Suitable for trusses with 38 - 41 mm diameter, Material: Aluminium 6061 T6, Screw: M10 x 30, Maximum load/SWL: 100kg, Dimensions (W x H): 58.3 x 30.0 mm (without screw), Weight: 0.133 kg, Colour: Black

www.thomannmusic.com

View attachment 124573

I have been using similar truss clamps for decades, but for their intended use. If the tube matches their design diameter (typically 50 mm) I think using them like this looks great!

 

[4speed]

A lot of bikes do not have bottle bosses. Rivnuts work but if it it is not perfect, then you dilled a hole in someone's bike and screwed up. I use these things all the time. On some batteries I use three. Verca Mounts are inexpensive and work well. I apply them to a frame with fiber grip paste, so they won't move. A bike packer could put spare batteries on a fork so the weight is low down.
View attachment 124582

I like those, looks better than metal hose clamps too.

 

[dodgeman]

I have been thinking of the OP’s specs when riding lately. Mainly the speed of 25 mph on average. My bike is limited to 20 mph with assist but even if that was turned up to 30 mph I’m not sure 25 mph is realistic. I’ve done some rides lately where they were shorter and I pedaled hard and averaged maybe 15 mph at best. I think even with a lot of battery and motor 20 mph might be more realistic. It’s the AVERAGE that’s tough. I can pedal along at 19 mph but you hit hills, winds, traffic, stop signs etc and all tge sudden your average speed drops off.

 

[4speed]

It’s the AVERAGE that’s tough. I can pedal along at 19 mph but you hit hills, winds, traffic, stop signs etc and all tge sudden your average speed drops off.

Yes, I agree. What is holding my hopes up is that there are actually no hills of significance, no stop signs, no lights, barely any traffic. It is rural and pretty flat. I expect a bit of headwind now and then, that's it. I start pedaling at home and stop some 30 km later at work, and intend to use quite a lot of electricity. But we'll just have to see. If in reality it does take too long, I may end up selling the bike instead.

 

[mclewis1]

I have been thinking of the OP’s specs when riding lately. Mainly the speed of 25 mph on average. My bike is limited to 20 mph with assist but even if that was turned up to 30 mph I’m not sure 25 mph is realistic. I’ve done some rides lately where they were shorter and I pedaled hard and averaged maybe 15 mph at best. I think even with a lot of battery and motor 20 mph might be more realistic. It’s the AVERAGE that’s tough. I can pedal along at 19 mph but you hit hills, winds, traffic, stop signs etc and all tge sudden your average speed drops off.

25mph average is indeed a lofty goal. With a road bike like setup (700c wheels, sub 40lb ebike weight, 500w hub motor, 750w battery, and a 210lb human) I can with about 125w of my power and 200w of assist average 35kph/22mph over 50k of open (no traffic) but rolling terrain ... and using around 7w/km. My average drops off to just over 30kph/19mph with an additional 20km in and around a small city on the streets (traffic) and multi use paths (so pedestrians and dogs).

The modeling suggests that if I increase the assistance to 400w and maintain my 125w input I could average 40kph/25mph over the open 50km but end up using 11w/km (or 1/3rd less range). To do that in town with traffic and additional start/stops I'd end up needing to use the throttle more (to improve off the line acceleration). So I'd guess usage averaging in the 500-600w range and 14-15w/km (or about half my original range estimates).

 

[m@Robertson]

30 km is only 18.7 miles in 'local' numbers, which puts it a little over my own one-way of 15.5 miles / 25km. I do mine in about 45 minutes but then again I also have many stoplights to deal with. @4speed has a do-able goal on a rural flat-ish road with no stops.

I was recently surprised to see my Apostate build - which is a reasonably lightweight e-MTB outfitted for the street with smooth tires (hence the name) - peak quickly at 30 mph without issue on a short flat stretch. If I spend some time finding a long flat spot, I bet its true top end is in excess of 35. From there if top speed was a goal (its not, I need it to handle super-steep stuff too) I could gear it for strong pedaling on flat ground.

My Bullitt has a 52T Lekkie front chainring on it, which is just too big for most applications as it will bog the motor. The only reason I use it is because optimum chainline is smack in the middle of the cluster on that bike, and in the flat terrain that bike lives in, 52T up front and working about 4 cogs in back (its an 11s) gives me ideal cadence and chain line.

I am thinking a combination of gearing and BBSHD settings will give him what he wants. My BBSHDs are set to both de-fang the PAS (lower the input levels), set the motor so it immediately cuts off when pedaling ceases, and soften the engagement to the drivetrain. If you keep only the last two of those, coupled to high speed gearing, you should end up with a 30 mph pedaler (where you work at it and don't just ghost pedal) no problem.

 

[m@Robertson]

One other thing, in terms of potential for a battery mount, given that Cannondale's enormous, wonderful large triangle:

I have used battery bags to great effect. Proper ones built wide enough to accept a battery (usually need about 8-10cm of width, which surprisingly is a non issue fitting between your legs). They also provide a handy way to hide wiring, either along the channel atop the bag or via the built in wire ingress/egress ports front to back. The trick here is to not use bikepacking bags. They are way too lightly manufactured/stitched, and they require you to manually add grommets for cable pass thrus.

Luna Cycle has a well made bag that is cheap. I have I think three of them but two are no longer in use (more on that below). I think that one is too small for your frame.

Luna Cycles Triangle Battery Bag Velcro

Distributors and builders of life changing electric bikes.

lunacycle.com

The Falcon EV bag has an almost legendary rep among the DIY community. I have had one for years and the problem I had with it was it was so large it took me years to find a bike it could fit into. When I did, I've found no reason to go to a custom bag, its of such high quality. For some reason their web site no longer shows measurements. They've always sucked at their web presence in fact. Don't let that put you off.

HOME | FalconEV

www.falconev.com

And then there's the reason I have the Luna bags sitting on a shelf: I have three custom bags done about a year apart by Uraltour. They are CHEAP at $40 each for Oxford 600D material, with the ability to specify size and strap parameters. $10 for shipping. Whats the catch? The guy is in Russia. Given the present world situation that may be a dealbreaker. But before the world went to hell, he reliably shipped orders over a 2-year time span.

Custom Frame Bag - Uraltour.com - bike expedition

eng.uraltour.com

 

[tomjasz]

Luna Cycle has a well made bag that is cheap.

Don't get it wet, the stiffeners are recycled cardboard. I sold a pair of EM3ev to them in 2015. The EM#ev bags were used as a pattern but dumbed down. The nylon panels also fray and pull apart. Cheap is right!

 

[tomjasz]

Verca Mounts

Topeak Versa​

Muc off carbon gripper

 

[PedalUma]

@m@Robertson, I am building a Specialized with internal routing. Here I am going Over the BB to prevent kinks. This was taken in the setting sun seconds ago. It is getting an awesome rack with double wide panniers and SuperMoto-X tires, lined and with Stan's. 100% commuter. The guy wants to give MBS in the House of Saud & Putin the finger each and everyday.

 

[m@Robertson]

Don't get it wet, the stiffeners are recycled cardboard. I sold a pair of EM3ev to them in 2015. The EM#ev bags were used as a pattern but dumbed down. The nylon panels also fray and pull apart. Cheap is right!

Would not surprise me on the product 'development'. So far so good for mine. They got quite a bit of water and mud on them. The liners going around the periphery on mine are closed cell foam padding. The one in the pic went thru the wash after I pulled it off the bike and replaced with the custom one. One thing I did notice was the zipper weatherproofing started to fray after a few years, but thats what protects the zipper from mud ingress and doesn't actually affect its operation. Maybe they improved the breed over time. All three of mine are still usable and look pretty decent. I think the newest one was from 2020 when I built the Envoy. the oldest was 2017 when I did the Stormtrooper. Thats the one that is still on. I *really* wish I had done a custom one for it but that bike is kept out of town and I never had the chance to do the measurements. At least now I have a couple of spares.

 

[tomjasz]

I wish I’d have invested in the high end bags. I went through 3 cheap bags. $30-$50. But I no longer need them. More items for my rummage sale.

 

[PedalUma]

@m@Robertson, That frame kicks butt!

 

[4speed]

There, first test run completed and pretty much everything behaves as expected.
Gearing may take a bit of tweaking to get right, with stock 46 chain ring cadence starts to get uncomfortable around 45 kmh / 28 mph - but then again I am profoundly out of shape atm and I can live with 25 mph for a while.

Cables need tidying, swapping to four of those Topeak Versa fasteners for the Quad Bob HD battery rail, derailleur needs adjusting, new 1,5" 50 kmh-rated tires are coming on as are Ergon grips, new pedals and a mirror. Possibly a gear sensor but maybe not since I am not really going to change gears a lot. But as a whole - I am happy so far.

 

[4speed]

The 1,5" tires being quite a bit higher than the previous 28 mm means a tighter fit than I expected. The fork center tube could be filed a bit for clearance but rear is trickier, thinking of putting 2-3 mm spacers in the bottom of the frame U-slots to set the axle more shallow. There is more than enough depth for the axle to lock on anyway. Fenders both front and rear had to go though, not enough room between tires and frame.

Other than that it seems fine, had a 24 km test run today at 25 mph with head wind half the way and used around 20% of the battery. The Ergon GP3 handles feel great, as do the new flat Shimano pedals. Derailleur still needs a bit of adjusting, seems like the whole range is a little off.

I would like assist level to start at 0 instead of 1 at power on but not sure if that can be set.

 

[m@Robertson]

Looks like this project turned out rather nicely!

I do my own fenders often as not on bikes. You may be in the same boat. That pic above of the dirty, dusty fat bike shows where I normally end up: Using mtb mud guards. Then extend them out a bit with black gorilla tape folded horizontally across the front and back of the short almost-fender to extend it. The tape will last for years despite its soft-ish nature, and will maintain its shape while riding at speed. You can use a much smaller version of that grey body fender and I have found body fenders keep enormous amounts of water off both the bike and the battery.

Here is a pic of a front wheel change I just made on my Bullitt (35mm wide rim to support that 2.4" tire). I'm showing the pic cuz it uses a different style of fender that bolts to the fork crown and doesn't get in the way of tire clearance. I don't use the rear as there is zero clearance so I have sealed the 'bulkhead' behind the tire in other ways. This fender is made by SKS and they have other versions.

None of these options will look as clean as what you had.

Get rid of that horrible front chainring as fast as you can afford to do so. Unfortunately the Lekkie rings have gone way up in price but they are still the best bet. Speaking of which, what does your chainline look like? The offset front to back? Thats a big deal for drivetrain longevity. Maybe the biggest. If its deflected it becomes a chainsaw to the drivetrain teeth and of course the chain itself isn't going to last.

Three different derailleur adjustment vids in this link, which is tee'd up a bit so you don't have to scroll much to get to them. The third one is from Park Tool. It takes the longest but its a complete tutorial to start from scratch and get everything perfect.

How To Build An Ebike From Scratch: Assembly Day 2

Assembly Day 1 got us a rolling chassis that looks like a bike. If you squint a little. Lets keep up the pace of progress here on Day 2

talesontwowheels.com

I would not do a gear sensor at all. I have bikes with and without. I just do a stutter in my cadence and doing so is automatic now. Also redoing the BBSHD settings so it shuts down immediately and starts up soft are really important components to the success of that technique.