Import hub motor hard failure - self healing???

[indianajo]

So I bought a geared hub motor from ebikling.com last year, import, $300 complete. I rode ~20 miles including about 2 miles at 25 mph, then 2 miles later the controller blinked blank and power stopped. Unplugging and replugging battery power reset the controller display, but as soon as I tried throttle display would go blank and no torque. Case of electronics box and hub were not hot.
I pedaled 10 more miles to my summer camp, checked battery voltage at the controller connector. 54 v on a 48 v nominal battery. Nice thing about geared hubs, they don't drag when you pedal them.
I put clip leads on the connectors to the electric box and checked voltage as I turned hand throttle. 54 v, display goes blank and has to be unplugged to reset. So the problem is not the battery or wiring.
In case I thermally overloaded it, I tried again next morning. As soon as hand throttle is opened, display goes blank, no power on wheel.
I parked it for the winter and rode a mountain bike home.
I rode up yesterday on my cargo bike with an AC amp clamp meter to determine if the failure was in the electronics box or a shorted turn in the motor? I charged up battery somewhat, then put amp clamp on 1 of 3 AC phase wires from electronics box to the motor. (I'm a former factory mechanic, 3 phase AC motors I spent 8 years diagnosing & replacing there)
Meter shows >10 amps and wheel dug a hole in the dirt by spinning. Same result with other two phase wires. No blanking of the display.
So do I trust it farther than I can pedal it? Was there a thermal cutout in the hub that took more than overnight to cool down? What do those 3 skinny wires from the hub plug to the motor do? Thermal sense snap action switch? rotation speed pickup? Didn't have time yesterday to to a 20 mile trial, I had to pedal cargo bike home for DR appointment this AM.
Or is there really a shorted turn in the motor winding that mysteriously got well?
This behaivior can't have been a shorted FET transistor driver in the electronics box as I had hoped, those don't get well when you let them sit around for 6 months. I brought the electric box home anyway yesterday, to replace the **** electrolytic caps that self discharge in 2minutes and make a huge 30 amp spark the next time I plug the battery back in again.
Kit has everything, pedal assist (pickup) hand throttle, LCD display, thin enought to fit a dropout with a brake rotor bolted to it, plenty of power to get me up 15% grades gross weight 300 lb. Do I dare trust it? I seriously do not want a mid-drive, if one of those fails in front of a 15% grade I'll be pushing 140 lb of bike+supplies instead of pedaling in 32:27 gear. Mid drives don't have a granny gear. Luna cycle quit selling the generic geared hub motors right before I bought, what was the problem? Bad hub windings? Bad controllers ?(I can repair bad FETs etc)

 

[rich c]

I had a similar issue, sent the motor to a guy that repairs that brand of bike, he found cold solder joints on hall sensors in motor.

 

[indianajo]

Thanks. Flaky solder joint on sensor would explain thermal effect. If I can get into the hub motor without grinding the end off, I could probably repair that. Hopefully the new solder operator was working the electronics box, which is here in town on the coffee table and unscrews rather simply.

 

[harryS]

So I bought a geared hub motor from ebikling.com last year, import, $300 complete. I rode ~20 miles including about 2 miles at 25 mph, then 2 miles later the controller blinked blank and power stopped. Unplugging and replugging battery power reset the controller display, but as soon as I tried throttle display would go blank and no torque. Case of electronics box and hub were not hot.

I bought an ebikeling kit last Februrary. It has the LCD unit. It's slowly being installed. I already have an ebike to ride, so no rush. This is for brother-in-law, so it has to be as cheap as possible. . The kit has one fault, in that the electronics are for a DD motor, so it loses the speedometer on a gear motor when coasting. RIght now, a first ride shows the settings are off, as the speedometer reads really high.

Well, here's my thoughts on your bike. You did full blast at 25 mph for 5 minutes. then the controller went blank. Sounds like battery went under LVC. Were you watching the bars? Battery reset wakes up the display again. As soon as you pull throttle, the 22A draw caused voltage sag to shut off display again. When you topped off the battery, it works again. Might not be a good battery? There are two LVC's, as you know. The controller is set around 42V. The battery has its own, and that's set by the BMS design. Hopefully around 38V.

I like these kits. They're only $160 with the LED display. The 3 level PAS with the LED is crude for slow speed riding unless you use 36V. The controller takes either 36 or 48V and can push 22 amps. I've seen three ebikeling geared motors, and all been the same. Three phase wires, five small wires for three Hall sensors (power, ground, three Hall outputs). If you only have three small, that would imply a sensorless motor (and sensor less controller), and the three wires could be a speed sensor (power/ground/output).

 

[indianajo]

Uh, thanks.
The display didn't go blank until 3 miles after the 25 mph run. Then did that over & over everytime the power was disconnected and reconnected then throttle turned. Until this May, now everything is fine. Battery voltage was 53 when I pedaled to camp, was 53 on input of electric box (pulled bullet connector wrappers back for cliplead of meter) when failed, so wiring and battery were not the problem. I'd had a previous bad battery from an Amazon seller, that is where my 31 day warrenty went getting that refunded and ordered new battery from e-bay sunbikes.
Yeah, when coasting shows no mph, didn't know it had anything to do with the geared motor. I don't need that function anyway, I know how fast I am going.
Took controller apart last week, the e-caps are not leaky, don't know why it draws a 30 amp spark every time is is plugged in after 2 minutes. E-caps stay at 10 v forever, but something discharges heavily down to that level. Reason case did not get warm, there is no thermal grease between the heat spreader bar and the aluminum case. I added some. there are thermal pads between the transistors and the heat spreader bar.
5 wire, 3 wire, kIt is 30 miles from the computer and I remember a 6 pin plug to the motor shaft witn one blank hole, So there were 5 wires there, I don't remember how the three fat (12 ga) motor drive wires got into the motor.
Forgot to take the electronics box out Saturday so I didn't get to try it out this weekend. Have a party 30 miles from the camp next weekend, would like to ride 60 miles that afternoon but don't trust it yet, any farther than I can pedal (30 miles per day max).

 

[harryS]

I'm fed up with the SW900 display. Got a note into the seller to see if this is a bug. Five levels of pedal assist and all appear to be the same, full power with any pedal motion, so I can't ride slower than 18 mph.

I had a spare KT-controller (with LCD3 display) that I swapped in. Smooth and quiet. That's how it should work.

 

[indianajo]

My display looks like yours, but it would go about 11 mph minimum on PAS level 1. That is about right for me. I have about a 52:16 rear gear 3 (smaller front sprocket) I ride in slowly. I have a taller 62? front sprocket which is too tall for me to ride without power, but might be okay at 18 mph in PAS2 on very smooth roads. The bike is a 70's Huffy Savannah 10 spd cruiser with sunrace sprockets & shifters, and the tall gearing is one reason I electric converted that bike. Also the steel front fork is a bit stiffer than 90's '00's mountain bikes that are my more recent purchases. Hub motor is in front fork, as is the 18 lb battery.
It took me a lot of work to make the pedal pickup work, since the magnet toroid didn't fit the old 70's crank. I had to wallow out the hole with a die grinder then space the magnet plate away from the steel hub with wood shims & glue. The pickup sensor is mounted on a steel arm bolted where the kick stand goes.
If youpush up & down speed buttons when powering up with center button, you get a configuration parameter display. I don't know what any of it means. I tried changing one parameter to slow PAS1 speed down, got stupid results, put it back.

 

[AguassissiM]

@indianajo
Just in case you have missed this video on configuring the SW-900 LCD on YouTube here it is, it may come handy.

 

[indianajo]

Thanks, I didn't even know the name of the display. Watched the video, will adjust PAS if the bike ever worked.
After resoldering the pickup wires in the controller, I tried a 14 mile trip last weekend and the display started blanking out no torque after 10 miles. No error code. The display resets if you pull the power connector for 30 seconds, but no torque on blank out after that. I think the motor must have a shorted turn. With the heat sink compound the transistor screws on the electronics box were barely warm. The battery connector sparks like 20+ amps when you reconnect it so I don't think it is the battery. I hadn't been UP any steep hills yet, and I hadn't been over 15 mph. To the scrap bin with the ebikeling wonder. I really want a geared hub motor e-bike, I may drop $2000 on that swiss made hub. At least it has heat fins outside the hub. Mid drive would have been unrideable from the bottom of that steep hill where the motor failed. I need the 3 front crank sprockets to get home after a failure, and mid drive replaces those with a single sprocket.

 

[Nelson37]

OK, of all the things that might be the cause I would put the motor itself dead last.

It would be helpful to have some more details about the motor model and specs. Not many geared motors that will haul 300 lbs over 25 mph and up steep hills, as well. At least not without problems. What size wheel on the motor?

The "electronics box" is called the controller. There will be power wires from the battery to the controller, and then from the controller to display. VERY IMPORTANT which one of these was pulled to "reset" the display? If the wire from controller to display, this is not common. What IS very common is to disconnect battery power to controller in order to reset from a low voltage condition.

Very few kits have thermal shutdown protection on any component, there would be a ninth wire to the motor, so this is not it. Shorted motor usually shorted all the time.

If you have both throttle and PAS, disconnect one and test, then the other. Short in these exposed components very common.

Battery stored through winter with no charge would be surprising to not be very unbalanced. Was BMS disconnected? Specs on battery lifepo4 by any chance?

After battery issues, which really sounds like could be it, by FAR next most common problem is loose connection somewhere. Pins back out of plugs, wires separate from pins, going fast with large load can melt insulation and cause intermittent short either inside or outside the motor, etc.

Problem does seem to be heat or time related, controller reset required, power but quickly dies on throttle, sounds like classic LVC, new battery stored over winter. When testing, where you constantly monitoring the meter for voltage readout? Sag to lower voltage, cutoff, removal of load, return to normal voltage can happen very quickly, most especially on an unbalanced battery, which is exceptionally common on less expensive units, brand new, and/or stored long-term.

Also, the spark on connection is very common, you can use a "pre-charge resistor" for this, there are some connectors with anti-spark built-in, if not regularly disconnecting and no extreme voltage this is not really a major problem.

 

[indianajo]

it's a 1000 W ebikeling 48 v motor in a 26" wheel. Sticker on the wheel says powercycle. It is a geared motor in the front wheel.
This occured in September, then again this May on final test before I junk it.
I charged the battery from 53 v (September) to 57 v before taking off on the trip last weekend. Charger that came with the sun-ebike LIPO4 battery has a 61v cutoff but I don't want to go above 90%. Last fall when I was testing this system after failure I clipped the meter leads directly to the shaft of the bullet connectors on the "controller" and read 53 v right through the failure and blank out as I twisted the throttle. So if there are any bad power connections, they are in the electronics box, which I have reheated the joints and added solder to. I'm a retired factory mechanic with a klein crimp tool, I don't make bad crimps especially with dorman terminals. If there are bad sensor connections, I reseated those but no improvement.
Juggling a meter I'm afraid to rotate the pedals as PAS1 goes immediately to about 12 mph. Dug a big hole in the dirt when I wound the pedal backwards to line it up on first takeoff. Been riding my human powered bike again.
Resetting was done by removing the power connector from battery to controller, then reconnecting after 30 seconds or more.
Frustrated trying to buy some new hub motor today not built in the land of fakes. lunacycle has no dimensions except dropout width and power, not even how many holes there are for sprockets . Florida ebike now website has no motors. Amazon is all import **** including ebikeling is very prominent. ebikes.ca tells you if a motor is "fast" for small wheels or "slow" forheavy weights, but not what the width and # holes is. Also not whether it takes a cassette or not, no info as to shaft diameter.
Go-swiss motor apparently can't be bought in America. TDCM motor got a recommendation on the thread "hub motors versus mid-drive motors" but their website has no specific models. Only TDCM that can be bought is integrated with a sturmey 5 speed hub like the one I bought last year that autoshifts to 8th (top) gear after 500 miles. (Pin holding cable pops out of groove) There was a swiss motor built by a wheel chair motor manufacturer sold by sdebikes last year, very expensive, but they've dropped it and I can't remember the name.
Thanks for listening. I really want a geared hub motor that won't strand me again. People tell me to buy a car but I'm not riding around with 6 airbag explosives aimed at my ears, which still work very well. Same with motorcycles & scooters, to **** noisy.
I'm putting motor in the front because I put 50 lb of supplies on the back of the bike in the 20 lb baskets, and the front tire tends to skid around and throw me over the handlebars. 18 lb battery is mounted on the front, too. If I could just get up to 15 mph from my self-powered 8! And travel on hilly 25 mph roads to town instead of 55 mph Hwy 3!
I may be putting new motor in front of the bodaboda cargo cycle, although the custom front fork may not be strong enough. It's got a way to support the battery up front where the weight doesn't turn with the forks. The 80's huffy savannah frame the ebikeling motor is installed in has a strong steel fork but it is not compatible with disk brake, which I would really need at the higher speeds I'll be riding at (15).

 

[Nelson37]

Are you familiar with the problem of "unbalanced" cells? I strongly suspect this is your problem. Charging to 90% aggravates this problem. You absolutely MUST do a full charge at least periodically, and especially after shipping and/or a long unattended storage period.

There is only one common issue that matches your symptoms, which also seems to match the particular conditions of your equipment, and that is a battery with one or more series strings containing one or more cells that is severely undercharged.

Charge the battery Fully and Completely, let sit on the charger several hours after end of charge, then test, and repeat. Monitor carefully and do not charge unattended or without fire precautions. A battery in the condition I suspect yours is in definitely is prone to fire. Balancing can take several days or even weeks, but two or three extended charges should bring definite improvement.

Also, you did not mention torque arms, or dropout re-inforcements, which IMO are absolutely mandatory for that motor on a front fork.

A quality dealer for Mac geared hub motors, considered pretty much the best, is Paul at Em3Ev.com. Fair and honest, quality product. A bit pricier than what you got now, OK, a LOT pricier, but quality. Justin at ebikes.ca, and also Tom at California ebikes are folks I could recommend. You mentioned some others I would not feel so good about, and one in particular that I would not do business with under any circumstances.

If you had purchased this kit from Paul, and had this problem, and contacted him, your problem would be solved already. Same with Justin. Tom as well, but he doesn't own the company. You really don't want to ask me about Eric.

 

[indianajo]

If the battery wasn't measuring 53 at the controller input connector at the time of failure, I might agree with your diagnosis, but the meter argues with you. Not the display meter, my analog meter. Meter doesn't wiggle as display blanks out when throttle turned.
Will take the point of charging battery 100% once.
I thought LIFePO4 batteries would not catch fire (per wikipedia) which is why I bought one even though it is very large. Also generic connector available anywhere and rectangular profile which can be captured in a difficult to steal aluminum frame.
I made the torque arms out of 1/8" bed frame rail, using a die grinder. The fork is Huffy steel from about 1978, guessing the date from the 5 speed sunrace rear hub with full width industrial sized chain. Another reason I can't use rear motor, 6 speed chain is skinnier and nobody sells 5 speed sprocket clusters.
Will check out Em3ev, which I thought from a previous visit was in the orient. Not sending my debit card number to that area.
Meantime I found this review of a BMC motor https://www.electricbike.com/bmc-hub-motor-review/
which seems to have appropriate history (2012) and pricepoint. Hard to find, came up on page 4 of a bing search for "48 V geared motor" About $760 for a 52 v front motor and comes in extra high torque slow 12T wind at electric-bikes.com. 18 mph is fine and something "cool running" might make one of my 80 mlle planned trips to a party & festivals without overheating.

Thanks for references.

 

[Nelson37]

Balancing does not occur at less than a full charge. The voltage reading tells you NOTHING about the state of balance of the battery as a whole. Most especially if that voltage reading is LESS THAN a fully charged state. The total voltage could be most cells fully charged, or nearly so, and a few slightly less, OR it could mean almost all cells near fully charged and one or two at dangerously low levels. The lower cells only catch up during an extended charge, as full cells are bled down by the BMS while the low cells continue to charge.

It is EXTREMELY COMMON for a battery of that price range, from that supplier, to be unbalanced when shipped and also to have one or more defective or bad cells. A bad cell can display a full charge and then immediately drop voltage dramatically under load. Or it may never take a full charge. If you did not fully charge when received, did not do so after the long winter storage, it is a virtual guarantee that unbalancing has occurred. The 100% charge absolutely MUST be performed on a regular basis, not everytime but most certainly NOT "never". All winter, your BMS was drawing power from just one cell in a series. Unattended winter storage without a top-off charge regularly is one of the top causes of battery failure.

When they fail, the system acts EXACTLY like yours does. Shuts off, no power, disconnect battery, got power, apply any load at all, fails again. Charge up, will work for a while, then fail as above. There is no other cause which results in these symptoms, with regularity.

Do you know for certain the series count of your battery? Lifepo4 cells have a max voltage lower than the standard 4.2v per cell for other Lithium. Something like 3.6 or so, this I can verify. With that number, and the series count, an accurate estimate of the fully charged voltage can be made to verify the battery state. The voltage the charger puts out is not a reliable estimate of this number for several reasons.

Yes Paul at em3ev is located in China. He is a transplanted Englishman in business for many years. Absolutely sterling reputation. The Mac is a clone of the BMC with many interchangeable parts. BMC is no longer well-regarded as it used to be, few dealers carry them anymore. The Mac has been regularly updated, is virtually the only gear motor in that power class that anyone would recommend.

Paul is also generally regarded as having the best batteries in the business. His original nickname was Cellman. His warranty coverage is second to none. Justin is similar, and his Ezee geared hubs are generally similar to the mac.

Lifepo4 is Less Likely to catch fire, but any lithium battery can catch fire.

The site where you got that BMC review is NOT repeat NOT one that I would recommend for anything approaching accurate, reliable, or truthful information. Anywhere else would be better. Also, that review is 6 years old. The Ilia mentioned in the article would be the dealer that no longer handles them.

 

[rich c]

Balancing does not occur at less than a full charge. The voltage reading tells you NOTHING about the state of balance of the battery as a whole. Most especially if that voltage reading is LESS THAN a fully charged state. The total voltage could be most cells fully charged, or nearly so, and a few slightly less, OR it could mean almost all cells near fully charged and one or two at dangerously low levels. The lower cells only catch up during an extended charge, as full cells are bled down by the BMS while the low cells continue to charge.

It is EXTREMELY COMMON for a battery of that price range, from that supplier, to be unbalanced when shipped and also to have one or more defective or bad cells. A bad cell can display a full charge and then immediately drop voltage dramatically under load. Or it may never take a full charge. If you did not fully charge when received, did not do so after the long winter storage, it is a virtual guarantee that unbalancing has occurred. The 100% charge absolutely MUST be performed on a regular basis, not everytime but most certainly NOT "never". All winter, your BMS was drawing power from just one cell in a series. Unattended winter storage without a top-off charge regularly is one of the top causes of battery failure.

When they fail, the system acts EXACTLY like yours does. Shuts off, no power, disconnect battery, got power, apply any load at all, fails again. Charge up, will work for a while, then fail as above. There is no other cause which results in these symptoms, with regularity.

Do you know for certain the series count of your battery? Lifepo4 cells have a max voltage lower than the standard 4.2v per cell for other Lithium. Something like 3.6 or so, this I can verify. With that number, and the series count, an accurate estimate of the fully charged voltage can be made to verify the battery state. The voltage the charger puts out is not a reliable estimate of this number for several reasons.

Yes Paul at em3ev is located in China. He is a transplanted Englishman in business for many years. Absolutely sterling reputation. The Mac is a clone of the BMC with many interchangeable parts. BMC is no longer well-regarded as it used to be, few dealers carry them anymore. The Mac has been regularly updated, is virtually the only gear motor in that power class that anyone would recommend.

Paul is also generally regarded as having the best batteries in the business. His original nickname was Cellman. His warranty coverage is second to none. Justin is similar, and his Ezee geared hubs are generally similar to the mac.

Lifepo4 is Less Likely to catch fire, but any lithium battery can catch fire.

The site where you got that BMC review is NOT repeat NOT one that I would recommend for anything approaching accurate, reliable, or truthful information. Anywhere else would be better. Also, that review is 6 years old. The Ilia mentioned in the article would be the dealer that no longer handles them.

My personal experience is that it may still be the motor, since I basically have the same issue. I mentioned earlier about sending in my motor and was diagnosed with cold solder joints. I was stranded this last Sunday with the repaired motor. Rode 6 miles, power went out, code 03 Info on the LCD. Tried all the connections, nothing worked. Shut the LCD off, turn it back on, full display lit up, try to use PAS or throttle and it shoots another 03 code and everything is dead. 2 days latter, turned everything on and it powers up just fine and throttle works. Just powered it up and rode a few laps around the neighborhood, about 1 mile. Lost all power and got an 03 code. Brought it home, tried a second battery pack from an identical bike based on your battery pack comments. LCD lights up, try to use the PAS or throttle and looses all power. LCD shows the 03 Info code. Hard to image 2 identical battery packs would fail at the same time due to imbalance. I always charge my battery packs to 100% for the maximum range. When this first failed, I pulled the second bike up and ran the cable from the first motor to the second bike. Throttle doesn't work and get an 03 code on the second bike. That takes all variables out of the loop and isolates the motor as the issue.

 

[Nelson37]

Um, well, yeah, ....BUT - the OP gets no error code, and no functionality from the screen UNTIL the battery is removed and replaced. Your symptoms appear to be completely different. If power buttons on screen function at all, then there is power to the system. No functionality means no power, Remove and Replace battery is a controller reset step. His controller has shut down, yours has not. Could be a defect in the controller, which certainly could be intermittant but this would generally not consistently turn back on with battery R & R.

You also do not appear to have a battery that is almost certainly a 58.4 V 16s lifepo4 that showed a voltage of 57 when fully charged, which has apparently never been fully charged, and sat unattended all winter with no top off charge. You also don't mention if you have a sunthing ebay battery, which, for the OP, is a China vendor who ships from China. It is a step up from a total piece of crap, but a quality and reliable battery it is not.

Also, the problem you thought you had was supposedly fixed and it is still broke. I would agree that your testing methodology would appear to have isolated the problem to the motor itself. Info on the 03 error code might be useful.

OP - Lifepo4 nominal voltage is 3.65 V per cell. 58.4V is 16S, and is closest value to your observed 57 and charger V of 61, although note that neither of those is an exact 3.65 increment from what it should be. Just to give you an idea, if it IS 16S, and did actually charge to 61V, that would do significant damage to the battery. If the 57V value is correct, and the entire 1.4 shortfall is all in one cell, that would mean one cell is at 2.15, generally considered totally ruined and the entire pack should be placed in a fireproof enclosure IMMEDIATELY and no attempt at charging should be made until that cell is replaced.

Could be one cell, could be several, Quality Control is not a sunthing trademark.

If that battery will not charge to 58.4, then it is defective. Unless the information supplied so far is wildly inaccurate.

You need a DVM reading at least into tenths of volts, ideally 100ths, put a fresh battery in it, and take some careful readings from battery, charger, and battery after fully charged. Charging should be carefully monitored and in a fireproof enclosure, in a well-ventilated area.

 

[indianajo]

The 2015 "48v" battery I bought 6/17 from betterbattery via amazon, came with a 58.? charger. It had 13 open stacks (I cut the top off after it failed and probed the battery management board) and the last stack voltage was coming & going. Complain, get my money back. I think from the date lapse (penciled on top cover) betterbattery was selling rejects. Bad welds I would postulate, easy to let the argon feed run down on the welder.
The 2017 "48v" sun-ebike LiFEPO4 battery I bought Sep 2017 (from a LA warehouse) came with a 61.? charger. I suppose battery technology has increased the full charge voltage in two years. It is same size as the 2016 betterbattery (about 10.5" tall) and both were allegedly made of 18650 cells, so I presume they have the same number of cells stacked up.
The symptom this time was the same as the symptom when I condemned the betterbattery, but the voltage at the input of the controller was way different. Betterbattery 9v after failure, sun-ebike battery 53 throttle on or off.
What really ****es me off this time controller blanked out is that I hadn't even been up any steep hills. I rode 7 mi RT to church the flatter way, no hills over ~8% grade. Then I was out of food, took off for Charlestown, power rode 2 miles of short 8% grades at 10-12 mph, then down a 15% grade with a sherriff's car screaming at me and I couldn't stop. I was coasting into a sherriff roadblock on the flat bottom at 50 W when the display blanked out. Dep Sherriff had closed the road, so I had to push the bike up the 15% grade since this sunrace gearset doesn't have a 32:27 low gear. !@#$$%^%^& I should have checked the battery voltage after I got back, but I was worn out and still out of food. 2 hours 40 min later I have food (18 miles RT the flastter way) and I'm still worn out. To the dumpster with this ebikeling P**.
Oh, BTW, Im not stupid enough to leave the power connected to the controller all winter since it has that huge >20 amp spark everytime I plug it up. I may never leave it parked more than 10 minutes connected up if it discharges the battery that fast when turned off. Actually I took the battery off the bike and hid it in an underground storm cellar, so it wouldn't freeze. It got to -8 deg F last winter, and that was in the city.
Off to the country 30 miles under pedal power again this weekend. No more analysis of this ebikeling garbage.

 

[Nelson37]

Well never mind then, throw it out the window and waste some more money.

Next winter, do some research and learn that disconnecting from the controller has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the storage problem, it is the BMS that is INSIDE the battery. Your stupid level is higher than you think it is.

Also, there is no change to full charge voltage but there is, and always has been, a difference, namely 3.65 vs 4.2, between Lifepo4 and Lion, and either your meter is not reading correctly or you are not counting right, as 4.2 times 13 equals 54.6 and not 58, could be a badly adjusted charger but that's two in a row.

Also, battery spot welds are done electrically, there is no argon or any other feed involved, just electric current to two electrodes.

Sometimes I really do wonder why I bother. Good luck to you.

 

[irishnutter]

Indianjo, why not try Nelson37's initial suggestion to just fully charge the pack (plus a few hours) to see if it was an issue with unbalanced cells? Seems like a dead easy thing to try. If it doesn't help, at least you ruled out another potential cause.

 

[indianajo]

When I'm on the internet I'm 30 miles from the battery and motor. Rainy days this week, so I stayed in town. When I'm with the bike I'm 30 miles from most tools. Do have an analog VOM out there. It's so rural I'm 7 miles from cell phone service out there.
Chargers vary in voltage on the sticker label, I'm not going by measurement.
As far as research, I've read all through "battery care" thread on this forum. Nobody there mentioned anything about full charge when new being critical to balance, most were warning about full charging shortens the life of the battery.