I see lots of discussion of range but what about headwind/tailwind?

[mschwett]

Drag coefficient of a cyclist seems to range from .6 to 1 depending on clothing, position, etc. Take the middle of that, .8, multiply by surface area of, I don't know, 8 square feet, .64 square feet, .06 square meters. at 48kph in normal density air the resultant force is 83 newtons, or enough to accelerate a 183lb/83kg object at 1 meter per second per second

Roadbiker.com has this rule of thumb "A headwind slows a cyclist’s speed by about half the wind speed. For instance, if you’re capable of cruising at 17 mph (27 kph) on a flat road in calm conditions, your speed into a 20-mph (32-kph) headwind can drop to a pedestrian 7 mph (11kph) for the same power output." which suggests that the aforementioned 30mph steady headwind would pretty much bring your average recreational cyclist to a complete stop. seems about right to me.

Right now, wind in San Francisco is at 28mph. I had to use the boost button on my vanmoof to make progress up a slight incline. Of course, I'm a pretty unaerodynamic object.

 

[Dallant]

Drag coefficient of a cyclist seems to range from .6 to 1 depending on clothing, position, etc. Take the middle of that, .8, multiply by surface area of, I don't know, 8 square feet, .64 square feet, .06 square meters. at 48kph in normal density air the resultant force is 83 newtons, or enough to accelerate a 183lb/83kg object at 1 meter per second per second

Roadbiker.com has this rule of thumb "A headwind slows a cyclist’s speed by about half the wind speed. For instance, if you’re capable of cruising at 17 mph (27 kph) on a flat road in calm conditions, your speed into a 20-mph (32-kph) headwind can drop to a pedestrian 7 mph (11kph) for the same power output." which suggests that the aforementioned 30mph steady headwind would pretty much bring your average recreational cyclist to a complete stop. seems about right to me.

Right now, wind in San Francisco is at 28mph. I had to use the boost button on my vanmoof to make progress up a slight incline. Of course, I'm a pretty unaerodynamic object.

Add headwind to incline times age over 65...that’s where I start adding pedal assist levels!

 

[Marcela]

Go take a recumbent or trike for a ride. That’ll open your eyes.

 

[K PierreR]

Drag coefficient of a cyclist seems to range from .6 to 1 depending on clothing, position, etc. Take the middle of that, .8, multiply by surface area of, I don't know, 8 square feet, .64 square feet, .06 square meters. at 48kph in normal density air the resultant force is 83 newtons, or enough to accelerate a 183lb/83kg object at 1 meter per second per second

Roadbiker.com has this rule of thumb "A headwind slows a cyclist’s speed by about half the wind speed. For instance, if you’re capable of cruising at 17 mph (27 kph) on a flat road in calm conditions, your speed into a 20-mph (32-kph) headwind can drop to a pedestrian 7 mph (11kph) for the same power output." which suggests that the aforementioned 30mph steady headwind would pretty much bring your average recreational cyclist to a complete stop. seems about right to me.

Right now, wind in San Francisco is at 28mph. I had to use the boost button on my vanmoof to make progress up a slight incline. Of course, I'm a pretty unaerodynamic object.

I am talking about people claiming to be going 7-8 mph against a 30 mph head wind on a 150lb loaded touring bike. I just don't see it. With 30 mph headwinds I had better really need to be somewhere and it better not be that cold.

 

[mschwett]

I am talking about people claiming to be going 7-8 mph against a 30 mph head wind on a 150lb loaded touring bike. I just don't see it. With 30 mph headwinds I had better really need to be somewhere and it better not be that cold.

For me, it better be damn cold to cool off the ridiculous amount I'll be sweating trying to power against that wind!

 

[Art Deco]

Windshield?

 

[K PierreR]

For me, it better be damn cold to cool off the ridiculous amount I'll be sweating trying to power against that wind!

What about the power button?

 

[Gionnirocket]

View attachment 85340
Windshield?

I think I'd rather stay home.

 

[indianajo]

I am talking about people claiming to be going 7-8 mph against a 30 mph head wind on a 150lb loaded touring bike. I just don't see it. With 30 mph headwinds I had better really need to be somewhere and it better not be that cold.

Before electricity I fought a headwind something like 15-20 mph for 5.7 hours at 140 bpm & 4.5 mph. Was 96 F in the shade that September day. I was out of food at camp, had to get to town. Now with battery & motor I can power through those days @ normal 3.5 hours.
Recumbents are fine off road. There are enough distracted or blind drivers out there I'm afraid to ride that low on the road. I'm up at the level of a middle brake light in a high viz green vest with reflective stripes. Plus my neighbor survived being hit from behind on a MTB, went over the hood. Spent one night in the hospital for observation. As long as the blind driver is not in a truck or SUV the normal riding position gives that advantage.

 

[AHicks]

Before electricity I fought a headwind something like 15-20 mph for 5.7 hours at 140 bpm & 4.5 mph. Was 96 F in the shade that September day. I was out of food at camp, had to get to town. Now with battery & motor I can power through those days @ normal 3.5 hours.
Recumbents are fine off road. There are enough distracted or blind drivers out there I'm afraid to ride that low on the road. I'm up at the level of a middle brake light in a high viz green vest with reflective stripes. Plus my neighbor survived being hit from behind on a MTB, went over the hood. Spent one night in the hospital for observation. As long as the blind driver is not in a truck or SUV the normal riding position gives that advantage.

I would have been edible bug hunting....

 

[K PierreR]

Go take a recumbent or trike for a ride. That’ll open your eyes.

I'll bet it would here. I am surprised sometimes at how close I can get to a trike coming at me on a rail trail before I actually figure out what I am seeing. I live in an area with no shoulders, very narrow lanes, deep ditches and short punchy hill with very limited visibility and drivers whom will try to pass on those hills. We have a lot of fatal bike accidents in Northeast Ohio. This is not a road friendly state. Fortunately there are lots of bike paths. I ride a high visibility bike. Translation, high frontal area.

 

[Dallant]

Before electricity I fought a headwind something like 15-20 mph for 5.7 hours at 140 bpm & 4.5 mph. Was 96 F in the shade that September day. I was out of food at camp, had to get to town. Now with battery & motor I can power through those days @ normal 3.5 hours.
Recumbents are fine off road. There are enough distracted or blind drivers out there I'm afraid to ride that low on the road. I'm up at the level of a middle brake light in a high viz green vest with reflective stripes. Plus my neighbor survived being hit from behind on a MTB, went over the hood. Spent one night in the hospital for observation. As long as the blind driver is not in a truck or SUV the normal riding position gives that advantage.

Owned one to help my back. Made it worse and would never own another.

 

[Marcela]

Where I'm located with the bike paths makes a recumbent or trike an easier decision. Don't believe I would mingle with automobile traffic on one. Riding the sidewalks is doable also.

I've found riding the Cattrike I could keep up with some of the spandex crowd. The faster we went the better my advantage via wind resistance. With increasing wind the diamond frame crowd starts to dissipate, with a trike or recumbent it doesn't really matter. Also the higher off the ground the more wind there is, lower is usually less.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Where I'm located with the bike paths makes a recumbent or trike an easier decision. Don't believe I would mingle with automobile traffic on one. Riding the sidewalks is doable also.

I've found riding the Cattrike I could keep up with some of the spandex crowd. The faster we went the better my advantage via wind resistance. With increasing wind the diamond frame crowd starts to dissipate, with a trike or recumbent it doesn't really matter. Also the higher off the ground the more wind there is, lower is usually less.

You have brought up a very interesting subject Marcela. Your aerodynamic considerations related to recumbent bikes tend to be true, yet I have found that such bikes are certainly not any cycling panaceum. Let me explain why.

First, to support your views: I had an opportunity to be in an urban "race" over a set of perfect asphalt bike paths against a 30-yo stranger riding an aero recumbent bike. Although the front of his cabin was open, the rear was made in the shape of a droplet. I was riding my Vado at 70% Sport mode (could not use 100% assistance because of the remaining battery range). The guy was improbably fast and I could catch up with him only when he was stopped by red light after many kilometres of chase. I shouted at him "Stop! We're gonna talk!" And we had a short talk. The man was proud of his bike and of his performance and merrily shouted: "No 'electrician' will ever win with me!"

Yet, I have had a chance to melt into recumbent bike community recently, and I ride with recumbent bikers from time to time, and am gaining experience by observing how my mates (many of them being female) are riding.

The recumbent bike is ideal for long distance riding (randonneuring, audax, or brevet cycling), or, 200 km controlled road rides. It is because your butt would never get sore when you're laid in the recumbent seat. However, a recumbent bike needs ideal asphalt to demonstrate its riding quality. Any road imperfection such as a pothole, sand spread on the pavement, curb, etc means danger to a recumbent cyclist. Forget riding gravel, and the city is full of dangers to the recumbent bike. Generally, the recumbent bike requires surfaces similar to a racing road-bike. And, contrary to the road-bike, the recumbent bike is just hopeless uphill.


I was on an urban ride with an experienced "brevet" recumbent cyclist only yesterday. Miraculously, we both were assisted with mild tailwind both ways! You know what? PAS 1 in my 250 W hub-drive e-bike was too strong for that ride. While in the city, my recumbent companion (female) was slowed down by numerous obstacles. She tended to ride with traffic while I rode bike paths in parallel to her. When we got on good paved road and rode with traffic on the way back, my Lovelec was still begging me to ride faster. The whole ride was effortless to me (mind you, PAS 1 of a 250 W hub-drive e-bike!). No, it was full of effort to ride slower...

Therefore, yes recumbent bikes are good aerodynamically (unless the aero is spoilt with panniers, etc, needed for a 200 km ride) but I would say a regular e-bike can be just better.

(And, no recumbent bike will beat a strong cyclist riding an aero road-bike in the drops).

P.S. I know a male recumbent cyclist who rides as frequently as I do, who clears longer daily distances than I do, and who is faster than me. Such people do happen.

Say what? 19.2 km/h average speed? I'm getting 22 km/h in PAS 1, and 24.5 km/h in PAS 2 on the Lovelec hub-drive e-bike.

Say what again? A road ride with two recumbent randonneurs, 17 km/h constant wind involved. I was using 35% assistance on my Vado on that ride. While I and brother, riding a 75-miler on e-bikes, got the average speed of 24 km/h. And my first 75-mile trip on my Vado (alone) was ridden at 26.5 km/h average...