I bought a Grizl:ON CF 9, AMA

[Jeremy McCreary]

I've got about 250-300 miles on the bike now. I've been using it to commute a couple times a week and I've ridden it on a wider variety of surfaces now.

Here are some additional notes:

• The lowest gear could be lower. The high assist levels make up for it, but if you want to save battery you are far from "spin it to win it" territory with a 1:1 low gear.

Any plans to anything about that? Both of my ebikes — a 500W 65 Nm torque-sensing hub-drive and a 240W 35 Nm Vado SL mid-drive — came geared too high for me on local hills. Ended up lowering gearing on both to good effect. But you could well be a stronger rider.

Does the Grizl motor favor higher cadences (80-90 RPM) like the SL's?

Interestingly, many of your comments on the Grizl come close to my own experience on the nimble, lightweight, low-power, low-torque, flat-barred SL.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

• I'm getting used to the reach. I thought it was 10-15mm too long when I got the bike, but apparently I'm stretching out over time.

If reach continues to be an issue it might be worth investing in drops with a rise. I have a pair of Surly Truck stop bars which have a rise of 30mm (coupled with a short stem). Other bars from Specialized (on the Creo) & Ritchey also have rises of around 15mm/20mm I think. Anyway I find the extra rise of the Truck stops very comfortable and makes the drops position much more useful too as it's now higher. Here's a pic (found online, not my bike).

 

[Ben J]

Does the Grizl motor favor higher cadences (80-90 RPM) like the SL's?

I think it feels smoother above 80, but if you play with Bosch's online range calculator, the peak range is a little lower (like in the 70s).

 

[Jack Cox]

I’m built pretty similar to the OP (& about 225 pounds) and have been riding a Creo 1, and later Creo 2 for 4 years now.

How does the Canyon compare on noise, range and overall technology integration?

My biggest disappointment with the Creo 1 was the noise. On the Creo 2 it’s the range, which took about a 15-20% hit. Wondering if this is an upgrade in either of these categories.

Thoughts?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

On the Creo 2 it’s the range, which took about a 15-20% hit.

You can tune the assistance down to recover the range... The range was hit as the SL 1.2 motor is stronger than the 1.1.

 

[Jack Cox]

You can tune the assistance down to recover the range... The range was hit as the SL 1.2 motor is stronger than the 1.1.

Absolutely correct, but that does't do much for the range as a clydesdale (225 lbs) rider. The bike itself arrived about 4 pounds heavier than the Creo 1 equivalent (set up as gravel). After some simple upgrades updates (upgrade from the super heavy SX cassette, lighter (road) tires and a host of other changes to suit my riding style, it is back to similar weight, and accelerates faster than Creo 1, which it didn't in stock configuration.

it still has a less range than I want (and the Creo 1), but I can get at least 20 miles on Turbo/Trail. I have 2 range extenders if needed, but I'd rather have a bike that can go 40-50 without them.

Unfortunately it also isn't as quiet as advertised, but it no longer screams, so there is that. I had my Creo 1 back to the shop a few times for noise, but specialized thought it was normal, and it never failed, so I guess it was. Strangely my Levo (with the same motor) is as quiet as my friend's Trek with a TQ motor (that's a dud, power wise though).

I will say Specialized makes a perfect bike, no issues of any kind with this or my similar Levo. The Creo 1 had the common TCU failure, but that was quickly resolved a my LBS.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Absolutely correct, but that does't do much for the range as a clydesdale (225 lbs) rider. The bike itself arrived about 4 pounds heavier than the Creo 1 equivalent (set up as gravel). After some simple upgrades updates (upgrade from the super heavy SX cassette, lighter (road) tires and a host of other changes to suit my riding style, it is back to similar weight, and accelerates faster than Creo 1, which it didn't in stock configuration.

it still has a less range than I want (and the Creo 1), but I can get at least 20 miles on Turbo/Trail. I have 2 range extenders if needed, but I'd rather have a bike that can go 40-50 without them.

Unfortunately it also isn't as quiet as advertised, but it no longer screams, so there is that. I had my Creo 1 back to the shop a few times for noise, but specialized thought it was normal, and it never failed, so I guess it was. Strangely my Levo (with the same motor) is as quiet as my friend's Trek with a TQ motor (that's a dud, power wise though).

I will say Specialized makes a perfect bike, no issues of any kind with this or my similar Levo. The Creo 1 had the common TCU failure, but that was quickly resolved a my LBS.

Yes I had increased noise so before my warranty ended I took my Vado SL 4 back to the bike shop. They compared the noise to a new SL and agreed it was much louder. They diagnosed wear and advised Specialized to replace the motor which they did in under a week. Great bike shop - Bicycle Chain Taunton Somerset shout out if anyone on here is in the area! I also had the TCU fail & it replaced with no issues & prompt replacement. Didn't know it was a common failure.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Didn't know it was a common failure.

It is not.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

It is not.

I was replying to this, above, from Jack:

I will say Specialized makes a perfect bike, no issues of any kind with this or my similar Levo. The Creo 1 had the common TCU failure, but that was quickly resolved a my LBS.

For the record my TCU failed twice, replaced each time promptly by Specialized.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

If TCU failures were "common", we would certainly have heard about it more in these Forums
As you might know, there were many people asking how to replace the coin battery in the TCU but hardly anything on the failures.

 

[Ben J]

Some further observations on the Bosch system:

• Self-discharge appears to be higher than on my other bikes. I took it off the charger (at 100%) and didn't ride for about a week. It was down to 90%. I'm not sure if this is the system protecting itself from extended storage at 100%, or normal self-discharge of the battery, or the Bosch system being honest about self-discharge while the other systems are not (?). But given the small size of the battery, I'm definitely encouraged to leave it on the charger so it's full when I'm ready to go.
• I miss the USB A charging port that my other two bikes have. Ridewithgps went a bit haywire on me and nearly drained my phone battery. On the A.2 or Tero X I could have plugged the phone in to the bike to keep it alive.
• I spent some more time in TURBO (or whatever the highest "RED" mode is called) on a ride yesterday. It really has plenty of power. I was going up 20% grades on loose gravel and mud/rock combo and despite slipping around a bit, on turbo I had no trouble.

General:

• Without turbo to go up those hills, I would have needed a lower gear. I might look into whether I can get a different front chainring for this setup. On hills I find I reach the lowest gear, and then start clicking up the assist to go "lower" (yay mini remote, without which that would be a pain).
• I've got a click in my bottom bracket somewhere. It only manifests if I pedal fairly hard (say > 150 watts)

 

[BlackHand]

I'm surprised it's draining that much, but I would guess the Bosch Connect module is pulling from your main battery to keep itself active and phoning home. Do you have any control over the location/ant-theft settings in the Flow app?

For comparison, the most drain I've ever seen on my older system 2 Bosch was 3% and that was after an unexpected back injury kept me off the bike for five or six weeks.

 

[Scooterboy]

You may remember me from such bikes as the Turbo Tero X 6.0 or the Aventure.2. I was very interested in the Creo 2 but didn't jump on that fast enough. I ended up getting the Grizl:ON CF 9 because it's a very similar bike. I was looking for something faster on roads/light gravel, lighter, with more variety in hand/riding positions. I also knew from the power settings and range I was getting from the Tero X 6 that I would be fine with less torque, less power, and a smaller battery.

First Impressions​

• Feels super light. Obviously 35lb is not light by bike standards, but for an ebike it feels like nothing.
• It picks up speed quickly and maintains speed very well. It's noticeable how much faster it is at low/no assist and moderate rider power.
• I immediately felt confident riding it no-handed. By comparison, the Tero X 6 steering geometry and lack of a top tube makes it feel pretty sketchy.
• Brakes are very good. Returning to my house usually involves a steep descent, and I was worried that I was spoiled by MTB brakes and big rotors, but the Grizl has plenty of stopping power, even from the hoods.

Geometry​

I'm 6'4" (193cm) with a 93cm inseam, which puts me smack in the middle of their XL sizing guide. But if you look at the real geometry numbers, you could not fit on this bike at the short end of the XL inseam range with the stock stem. You'd need a plain stem you could slam. I would say I'm really at the low end of the XL frame and I might have been better with an L frame. You'd get more seatpost extension (and thus more flex) and I think the reach would be better for me.

Notes:

• With my measurements (above) I was about 2cm from max seatpost insertion.
• The min/max seat insertion depth on the geometry data is not a property of the bike frame, it's the seatpost. It says 207mm max insertion, but the first obstruction in the seat tube is the top bottle cage boss. You can actually fit a 400mm dropper post slammed (at least in the XL frame) despite what it says.
• On the other hand, the min/max seat height geometry numbers are not based on the stock stem. You can easily do the math and see that they don't add up.
• If you are looking for comfort with a carbon stem (like the stock one) you don't want to be at the low/middle of the inseam range.
• I think the reach is slightly too long for me (10-15mm) in the stock setup, but I'm old, inflexible, and not used to riding drop bars.

Bosch Performance Line Sprint​

I'm very used to the Brose 2.2 motor on the Tero X 6 and the Specialized TCD, so naturally this is a bit of a comparison:

• The motor is fairly noisy. The volume increases with the assist setting, and the pitch (which is fairly high) increases directly with rider cadence.
• In tour/blue and above there is noticeable vibration through the pedals. This is especially pronounced in tour/blue for some reason. It's also a little stronger at lower cadence.
• The four assist levels are very distinct. ECO/green is pretty low so I don't think I'll miss micro tune. The modes are configurable with the app but I haven't read up on how it works and it's not super clear in the app.
• Even with the faster gearing and larger rear wheel, the assist is more than enough to make the trip up the hill by my house easy. I was worried about this because the Tero X 6 has about 40% mechanical torque and almost twice the motor torque.
• The real place you notice the lower torque is at lower cadence. I don't know the exact number, but if you drop below about 70 RPM there's a big falloff in assist. That can make the bike feel a little "steppy" because a burst of rider power can get you to a plateu where you get much more motor support.
• The top tube control is a big weakness of this system. It's just a power button and an assist button (with long press to reduce assist) plus a bar graph power display. Assist level is indicated by color. Adjusting power while riding is impractical. If you use multiple power levels during a ride, I think the mini remote (see below) is required. Compared to something like a Turbo Levo, it is absolutely primitive.
• The biggest weakness of the system is the proprietary connectivity. You can't just connect the bike to another app as a power meter, so if the bike doesn't support one of your peripherals (e.g. Garmin Varia radar) you will never get 100% of your stuff working in a single app. Luckily, after a firmware update it recognizes my HR monitor.
• Battery life seems to be right where I expected, about 35-40mi with my normal use. Today I got it down to 17% and I didn't notice any dropoff in assist even though it said I only had 2-3 miles of range remaining. There is a range extender available.
• The part of the Bosch Flow app you use while riding is fine. It's comparable to other apps in the same category. The part of the app you use while not riding is terrible. Rarely/never used options are available at the top level. Common, useful things are buried 3-4 layers deep. Inconsistent UI language makes it hard to tell what is even a button. Ads and notifications are mixed in with other controls, so menus can be slightly different each time you use the app.

Overall, every individual element made a poor first impression, but it's growing on me. I'm still annoyed by the lack of radar connectivity. The mini remote improves the riding experience a lot. I still wish it was quieter, and every time I bump into tour/blue mode I'm surprised by how much vibration I feel in my feet.

Canyon​

• Shipping was fast, and the bike was very well packaged.
• The instructions are good (I only saw maybe two minor errors). There isn't that much assembly to do. The stuff done by Canyon at the factory was done well (for example, the brake calipers were in the right spot). There are thoughtful notes attached to the bike in areas where you might overlook something.
• Major accessories don't seem to be available in the US, like the matched frame bag (that's in almost all of the pictures), and the fenders.
• They really include all the tools you need, including a torque wrench and a shock pump.
• I could have done with fewer stickers on the frame, but I suppose they are legally required.

Miscellaneous Notes​

• The gearing is a good match to the bike. The low end will still get me up the hills I ride and the high end is 34MPH at 90RPM.
• The bladed spokes seem very "extra" to me. I am also getting some intermittent noise which I think is from the spokes but I haven't nailed it down.
• The Schwalbe G-One Bite (45mm) are great so far. Quiet on the road, and grippy in sketchier dirt/gravel situations than I expected.
• The rear hub is super quiet. But you can still have a clicky noise if you want, by backpedaling the Bosch motor.
• When I really put the power down it's very easy to lift the front wheel.
• I'm withholding judgement on the RockShox Ruby suspension fork. I think the setup guidelines at the higher end of total rider weight are too stiff, but I don't have it dialed in yet.

Modifications​

Of course I started changing things almost immediately:

• The Bosch Mini Remote (about $50) is a necessity if your riding style includes adjusting power up and down. This also gets you access to walk mode and a dedicated button that cycles through screens in the Bosch Flow app (equivalent to swiping).
• I swapped the seatpost for a RockShox Reverb AXS XPLR dropper. I grew up riding bikes that were too short for me, and I just can't break the habit of expecting to be able to put a foot down. The dropper will probably save me from a broken leg at some point. Since it's AXS it pairs with the existing shifters with no problem. This thing probably deserves its own review.
• LEZYNE Flow side-load bottle cages (come in a left/right pair) work great.
• The RockShox mini front fender is enough to protect the rider but not the downtube.
• I added a "Ass Savers Win Wing 2" rear fender and it's fantastic. Very minimal, easy to remove, kept me 100% clean in the wet.
• I should get new pedals because the included ones are pretty borderline. Even the manual tells you to replace them. And/or I should start riding clipless.
• The included saddle is okay, but I am a fan of sqlab and might replace it.
• The TUSITA Varia seat post mount that came up in another thread (and which does not fit MTB seatposts) works great on this bike. I've seen the stock Varia elastic mount bounce around even on a FS MTB so I like the rigid mount.

The forum isn't letting me attach an image right now, but I'll add one when it's working again.

Excellent review. I have had a Grizl:ON CF7 since May.
Based on the alternatives, this bike remains a good choice for my style of road to path to occasional trail.
Lots of power and a good value for the price paid.

However, there are a few pain points and changes made:
1) I'm an older guy with neck issues and just installed a Redshift Top Shelf bar with 50mm rise. Also a little wider bar and man, what an excellent improvement.

2) Agreed that the mini remote is mandatory. Canyon should install it on the bike or at least offer it for sale. I use it all the time.

3) Major pain point - the always-on rear lights. They are great for road riding but on the path or trail, during the day, not so much. They scream "hey look at me, I'm riding an ebike". On the other hand, the front light is great. Daytime, high and low beam. Do wish there was a blinking or strobe setting. But beam is strong and light well made.

4) Motor noise - really annoying. Especially when riding uphill on a long road incline. I have several Specialized bikes with Brose motors and they are at least half the volume of the Bosch SX.

5) Motor characteristics - vague motor engagement in certain situations. Sloppy when cruising, like the motor "clutch" engages then releases during pedal rotation. Thank goodness the bike pedals well with the "no assist setting". Actually works really well. And then there is the clunking from the motor when riding down bumpy road or path. A know issue with the Bosch SX

6) NO ACCESSORIES (frame pack and fenders) in the US. Tragic fail for Canyon USA. I would have choked on the price but purchased anyway due to the seamless integration with the bike. Really, really disappointed.

7) Not sure who dropped the ball on sizing - I barely fit an XS. Usually between small and medium (or 52cm) with other manufacturers.

8) One comment on assist settings - try the AUTO setting. It is almost magical how it "knows" the assist level to use and seems to increase range if that makes sense.

That is enough for now
Enjoy your new bike!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

3) Major pain point - the always-on rear lights. They are great for road riding but on the path or trail, during the day, not so much. They scream "hey look at me, I'm riding an ebike". On the other hand, the front light is great. Daytime, high and low beam. Do wish there was a blinking or strobe setting. But beam is strong and light well made.

Bear in mind it is a German e-bike
The tail-light is not a bad thing on a trail, especially on a group ride. No-one will ride onto you!

 

[AndyK2479]

Excellent review. I have had a Grizl:ON CF7 since May.
Based on the alternatives, this bike remains a good choice for my style of road to path to occasional trail.
Lots of power and a good value for the price paid.

However, there are a few pain points and changes made:
1) I'm an older guy with neck issues and just installed a Redshift Top Shelf bar with 50mm rise. Also a little wider bar and man, what an excellent improvement.

2) Agreed that the mini remote is mandatory. Canyon should install it on the bike or at least offer it for sale. I use it all the time.

3) Major pain point - the always-on rear lights. They are great for road riding but on the path or trail, during the day, not so much. They scream "hey look at me, I'm riding an ebike". On the other hand, the front light is great. Daytime, high and low beam. Do wish there was a blinking or strobe setting. But beam is strong and light well made.

4) Motor noise - really annoying. Especially when riding uphill on a long road incline. I have several Specialized bikes with Brose motors and they are at least half the volume of the Bosch SX.

5) Motor characteristics - vague motor engagement in certain situations. Sloppy when cruising, like the motor "clutch" engages then releases during pedal rotation. Thank goodness the bike pedals well with the "no assist setting". Actually works really well. And then there is the clunking from the motor when riding down bumpy road or path. A know issue with the Bosch SX

6) NO ACCESSORIES (frame pack and fenders) in the US. Tragic fail for Canyon USA. I would have choked on the price but purchased anyway due to the seamless integration with the bike. Really, really disappointed.

7) Not sure who dropped the ball on sizing - I barely fit an XS. Usually between small and medium (or 52cm) with other manufacturers.

8) One comment on assist settings - try the AUTO setting. It is almost magical how it "knows" the assist level to use and seems to increase range if that makes sense.

That is enough for now
Enjoy your new bike!

"7) Not sure who dropped the ball on sizing - I barely fit an XS. Usually between small and medium (or 52cm) with other manufacturers."

It's the same Stack and Reach as my Giant Contend M (with a 90mm stem rather than stock 100mm) which drew me to the XS Grizl:On......are you finding it too 'long' on the reach?

Regards,
Andy

 

[Scooterboy]

"7) Not sure who dropped the ball on sizing - I barely fit an XS. Usually between small and medium (or 52cm) with other manufacturers."

It's the same Stack and Reach as my Giant Contend M (with a 90mm stem rather than stock 100mm) which drew me to the XS Grizl:On......are you finding it too 'long' on the reach?

Regards,
Andy

Reach is good. The sizing seems to be driven by the distance from lowest seat setting to pedals.
Forgot to say I changed the cranks to a 150 and it really helped because then I can actually put the seat at the minimum setting instead of pushing it beyond the minimum mark.

 

[AndyK2479]

Reach is good. The sizing seems to be driven by the distance from lowest seat setting to pedals.
Forgot to say I changed the cranks to a 150 and it really helped because then I can actually put the seat at the minimum setting instead of pushing it beyond the minimum mark.

Do you think the S would have been better 'off the peg'?


I'm really on the border between XS and S on the Canyon sizing, will have to take another look at the geometry.

 

[Scooterboy]

Do you think the S would have been better 'off the peg'?


I'm really on the border between XS and S on the Canyon sizing, will have to take another look at the geometry.

In my case the only way a small would work if I swapped out the seat post for one that could be inserted further into the seat tube to reduce the distance from seat to pedal.
Call Canyon - they were very helpful and there is the 30 day satisfaction guarantee.

 

[Ben J]

One comment on assist settings - try the AUTO setting. It is almost magical

I had not heard of that before. It sounds like you have to get a shop to enable it. Did you do that, or did your CF7 come with that already available?

 

[Scooterboy]

I had not heard of that before. It sounds like you have to get a shop to enable it. Did you do that, or did your CF7 come with that already available?

Look in the Bosch Flow app - custom riding modes panel - select Auto as one of the 4 mode options