How to improve bike and pedestrian safety

[Roamers]

Lowering speed limits, raising sidewalks and bike lanes (like in the video), providing physical barriers (instead of "magic paint") between motorized vehicles and bikes, there is a lot that COULD be done to improve safety - we just need to give up the belief that motorized vehicles are entitled to the roads at the expense of everything else.

I agree that these are great solutions in some cases; such as high density population big city downtown areas. Overkill in more areas than they are appropriate for.

 

[Cowlitz]

I assume Lowering speed limits in areas where bikes and pedestrians are present can improve bike and pedestrian safety.

No, it won't unless it is actually enforced. If people drove the speed limit on a road that I take to access a lot of other riding routes, I'd feel a lot safer. In my town, speed limits don't matter and are seldom enforced and everybody knows that. Speed limits are a joke.

The town's answer to the speeding on this road was to put up a spendy solar Speed Limit Your Speed digital sign. That's all it does is tell you how fast or slow you are going. No enforcement, no cops around--ever. Needless to say, this is the stretch of road I dread because I have had some very close calls on it.

 

[tomjasz]

Overkill in more areas than they are appropriate for.

Oh? And where is this?
BTW are you a daily rider or commuter?

 

[Mr. Coffee]

It is well understood how to make speed limits self-enforcing. A lot of times you can accomplish a lot by just painting narrower lanes. Alternatively you can put in concrete barriers that narrow the lanes as well, and since people don't want their nice cars scratched they will slow down on their own. In extreme cases you can use chicanes or other measures to force people to slow down.

I've often been frustrating because most people don't even know what's beneficial to them. Not just on bikes but on motor vehicles as well. Roundabouts are well understood to be safer, less expensive, and pass traffic at higher average speeds than traditional controlled intersections. Yet most Americans hate them because they are different.

There are other legal changes rather than technological changes that can make roads safer. If a motorist hits and injures non-motorists, the motorist should be presumed to be at fault unless they can show that the non-motorists were grossly negligent. And at the same time if they (a motorist) are shown to be at fault they should automatically lose their license if they kill or injure pedestrians or cyclists again unless they can show the people they killed were grossly negligent. Cultural changes are possible, we used to tolerate drunken driving and that is very unacceptable in modern times. At a broader scale American roads would be much safer if we borrowed liberally from European traffic laws and standards, with or without bicycles.

 

[Roamers]

Oh? And where is this?
BTW are you a daily rider or commuter?

Rider yes (not daily though) commuter no. 95% of my riding is on bike trails and in residential areas stay there until I can pop out next to the plazas I shop at. Every road crossing on the trail has a stop or yield sign on the trail. Personal responsibility to watch for traffic.

I can think of nowhere in the Quad Cites (IA/IL) I would want them to spend the $ to make the drastic modifications. As they update downtown intersections, they are doing a colored brick pattern in cross walks. That looks like a good idea. Bikes are on the road though not sidewalks.

 

[Roamers]

If a motorist hits and injures non-motorists, the motorist should be presumed to be at fault unless they can show that the non-motorists were grossly negligent.

And that type of attitude is why cyclists are often looked down upon. Tough to prove a moving cyclist didn't swerve into a vehicles path.

I usually yield to cyclists, but there are too many a-holes that think they are more important than motor vehicles and don't move over when they are not flowing with traffic.

 

[Cowlitz]

And that type of attitude is why cyclists are often looked down upon. Tough to prove a moving cyclist didn't swerve into a vehicles path.

I usually yield to cyclists, but there are too many a-holes that think they are more important than motor vehicles and don't move over when they are not flowing with traffic.

I'd say more motorists are jerks. Bicycles are consdered to be a vehicle in my state. If I'm in a lane and staying in the lane but happen to swerve a bit , staying in my lane, it is the car's fault. I'm legal and in a lane.

I often hog the lane going up the scary road for a ways until it is safe for me. It's only about a hundred yards and might delay somebody a few seconds. Of course, I've almost been run over by a couple of irate drivers in that place. There is no shoulder. The road edge ends into an eroded ditchline. Once I'm past this, I get over and let folks by. I'm pedalling as fast as I can in turbo mode going up that stretch of road. The speed limit is 25mph. I'd guess the average speed to be 35mph.

Mr. Coffee is correct. The speed limit on the road is 25mph but the lower portion of the road has been widened and paved in a way that says, "floor your accelerator", and people do. There is then a hazardous intersection where a traffic circle would be perfect. But it isn't there. After that, the sidewalks end, the road narrows but cars are speeding. I guess I need to talk to the mayor. I emailed her and a few weeks later was hopeful to see some road guys out but they merely cut brush along the sides and bladed in the eroded ditch, which has washed again. I was told that nothing could be done due to buried cables.

 

[Roamers]

Sucks that you have to put up with that (unenforcement). Since moving out on my own, I have lived in smaller (less than 60k population) towns and have always seen pretty solid speed limit enforcement within the city; and have had plenty of tickets to prove it back in the day. Less enforcement on the arterials, but wouldn't think about taking a bike on them.

I really don't experience many jerks in either direction. It might be a smaller town Midwest thing, much more easy going, care for each other than when I lived on the East Coast.

 

[PatriciaK]

Traffic engineers understand fully that widening roads and adding lanes increases speed. Wish we would stop doing that...

 

[jhonmartin692]

No, it won't unless it is actually enforced. If people drove the speed limit on a road that I take to access a lot of other riding routes, I'd feel a lot safer. In my town, speed limits don't matter and are seldom enforced and everybody knows that. Speed limits are a joke.

The town's answer to the speeding on this road was to put up a spendy solar Speed Limit Your Speed digital sign. That's all it does is tell you how fast or slow you are going. No enforcement, no cops around--ever. Needless to say, this is the stretch of road I dread because I have had some very close calls on it.

I agree that if people drove the speed limit, it would make the road a lot safer. However, I don't think that speed limits are a joke. I think they are there for a reason and should be followed.

 

[Alaskan]

About 15 years ago, my oldest son was driving his Suburban at night up a long hill on a street near our local university (WWU). As he approached the intersection where he intended on turning left, he put on his turn signal, seeing no one coming the other way he turned and then BAM he was hit in the front end by someone on a bicycle at high speed, coming down the hill, with no lights. The rider went flying across his hood landing on the curb, suffering a compound fracture of her leg. There was a fire hall with an EMT right across the street. They responded an a matter of minutes and the police arrived.

Fortunately there were also two pedestrians who were walking up the sidewalk who witnessed everything and stuck around till the police arrived. After a brief investigation, on the scene, Julian was sent on his way, while the bike rider was given a ticket for failure to display the legally required lights on her bike at night.

Without the presence of eye witnesses, the outcome may have been quite different.

A month later, he got a call from an insurance adjust for the injured girl's, father's insurer, demanding he pay over $30,000 in damages. We went down the police dept, and got a copy of the accident report, which clearly put all the blame on the cyclist. I sent the guy an email with a copy of it telling him that any further communcation will be responded to by an attorney. That was not enough to discourage him. He kept trying to intimidate my 20 year old son into accepting some degree of responsibility. Finally I had a lawyer friend write a go screw yourself letter and that was the last we heard from him.

Julian, with the image of the loud bang and then the shadow flying across his windshield, was so traumatized that he sold his Suburban, bought a bike and didn't drive for almost another year.

Frankly, I think that there should not be neither a presumption of responsibility nor innocence for either motorist or cyclist. Let the facts dictate who has to assume responsibility with no initial bias.

 

[Roamers]

And the damage to the Suburban should have been paid for by the cyclist.

 

[Roamers]

Traffic engineers understand fully that widening roads and adding lanes increases speed. Wish we would stop doing that...

So widening a road to make room for a bike lane would be a bad thing?

 

[Roamers]

As a matter of curiosity, assuming a road without a paved shoulder, at what speed limit should bikes be prohibited from it? Does it make a difference if it is an arterial or a commercial area? Does it matter if it is 2 lane or 4 lane?

 

[PedalUma]

I just got to my workshop after a big parade. Our group was sponsored by the City and had about 60 riders. We were the Climate Action Group. Space dedicated to cars takes up 50% of an urban area. Think of a shopping mall. That is expensive real estate that could be used for all sorts of better things. How much time is a car actually used per day, week, month, year. 5%? How much of its carrying capacity is used regularly 20%? What is its mass compared to its rider's mass 15X? Bikes are a much better use of resources.
Off topic: My 300 pound buddy just emailed with a broken Ultra chain on Hicks Valley, that's way out in the boonies in Western Marin. He runs it full throttle up a mountain called Wilson Hill. I offered a rescue but thankfully AA is on the way.

 

[Roamers]

offered a rescue but thankfully AA is on the way.

Was he drunk?

 

[PedalUma]

Maybe I was. Make that three A's.

 

[Handlebars]

Toronto being a city that strives to be known for Liberal policies and bike-friendly ways has created what is little more than a kill zone for biking in some areas - for example, in places cars and trucks park on the right side, of course, but then the bike lane is still further to the right, up to the sidewalk.
With many trucks and delivery vans parked between the traffic and the bike lane, the car traffic can't see what is in the bike lane ( out of sight, out of mind) as they turn right and the bike riders can't see the cars about to turn right and run them over.

It's what happens when you have stooge politicians virtue -signalling and their minions running things.
That's #1 on the goofy things they do for bike riding.
Oh, there's more.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

And that type of attitude is why cyclists are often looked down upon. Tough to prove a moving cyclist didn't swerve into a vehicles path.

I usually yield to cyclists, but there are too many a-holes that think they are more important than motor vehicles and don't move over when they are not flowing with traffic.

You misunderstand the rules of the road and are therefore an unsafe motorist.

In Washington state, you are required to keep three feet of separation when passing another user of the road. If you do that it is hard for a suicidal cyclist to deliberately swerve into you.

Bicycles are considered vehicles and can (and should) take the lane when necessary. A courteous cyclist will pull over when it is safe to let delayed vehicles pass, but being a jerk isn't punishable by being hit by a car. Once again cyclists have all of the rights and responsibilities that you'd have in the very largest Ford pickup.

Sources:

Drivers Beware: New WA Law Requires More Space For Bikes

Gov. Jay Inslee signed a new law on Monday that increases penalties for drivers who don't give bikes and other road users enough room.

patch.com

And hilarious reading: "Driving Safely Among Bicyclists":

https://www.dol.wa.gov/business/drivertraining/docs/bicycletestanswers.pdf

I quote:

4. When a driver approaches a bicyclist from the rear, the driver should:
A. Shout or throw an object to get the bicyclist to ride on the sidewalk.
B. Race the engine or honk to warn the bicyclist.
C. Wait until traffic clears so that the car can pull out and pass with at least 3 ft space.
D. None of the above.

 

[mschwett]

So widening a road to make room for a bike lane would be a bad thing?

i think it's obvious from context (except to the argumentative) that her comment about "widening roads and adding lanes" was referring to full-width vehicular lanes, not bike lanes.