How to improve bike and pedestrian safety

[mschwett]

As a matter of curiosity, assuming a road without a paved shoulder, at what speed limit should bikes be prohibited from it? Does it make a difference if it is an arterial or a commercial area? Does it matter if it is 2 lane or 4 lane?

as a matter of law in most western countries, bicycles are permitted to ride almost anywhere. interstates are exceptions in most states, although there are quite a few states where it's legal (if somewhat unpleasant) to ride in the shoulder of an interstate.

laws vary by state, but as a general rule, a vehicle must give at least 3 feet clearance to a bicycle, bicycles should ride as close to the edge of the roadway as safely possible, and if it's NOT possible to safely do so they may take the lane. motorists STILL need to give them 3 feet clearance to pass and may only pass when safe to do so. remember that the american legal system was not designed to protect the majority. the majority doesn't need protecting. the minority - cyclists in this case - are absolutely entitled to use most roads in the united states, and if it inconveniences someone else, that's the price of living in a place in which you haven't personally built everything with your own bare hands. we all share resources that far exceed our own contributions to society.

 

[Handlebars]

" bicycles should ride as close to the edge of the roadway as safely possible"
"should" .
Why "should" they ride as close to the edge as safely possible, one might ask, unless it's to get out of the way of cars and trucks?
Let's see...how wide is a typical lane? 10 feet. Bike takes how many feet? My bike takes up 2 feet. 3 feet of distancing makes 5 feet. 5 feet for trucks to drive in.

On average, a pick-up truck will have dimensions of 19.8 feet long (235 inches), 6.7 feet wide

 

[Handlebars]

I think people who don't ride in busy city streets don't have the same mental picture of how it works, with drivers hopping in and out of their parked cars and delivery vans, mothers pushing the baby strollers across the bike lane without looking, cars on side streets come forward into the bike lane so they can see enough past the parked cars to try to get into the traffic on the main road...where there are lots of car drivers trying to get ahead. Add potholes. Add the lighted bike lane marker poles smashed down and lying across the bike lane here and there.
Almost forgot..add the snow and ice that stays there longer than snow and ice on the road does.
Bike lanes are a nightmare.

 

[Roamers]

as a matter of law in most western countries, bicycles are permitted to ride almost anywhere. interstates are exceptions in most states,

Thanks for the writeup, but already familiar with the rules of the road.

Please note my question was stated as "what should" not "what are". Just because something is currently allowed, doesn't mean it is a good thing. As for the current rules of the road, they are poor in some cases; I would not think of giving only 3' clearance to a cyclist.

This has been fun, but it's done raining for a few days, so back to outside activities.

I agree that motor vehicles and cycles need to coexist together safely. That means motor vehicles need to be kind and cyclists need to be smart. There was a commercial many moons ago (don't recall what it was about) but the tag line was something like "Yes you can be right, dead right".

I agree that new construction should take into account the increase in cyclers. I do not agree that all areas need to be recreated in the eyes of a cyclecentric demographic.

For those with a passion, keep up the good fight. I have been on cycles for about 60 years. Been on my new ebike twice. Life continues to be great. To give a rough idea where my views come from, I'm a retired Certified Safety Professional well versed in hazard assesment and remediation. More useful immediate use of funds would be to educate cyclists.

Last one, if cycles are to be treated as equal to motor vehicles, why not require license to operate? And periodic retesting.

 

[Slorider]

And that type of attitude is why cyclists are often looked down upon. Tough to prove a moving cyclist didn't swerve into a vehicles path.

I usually yield to cyclists, but there are too many a-holes that think they are more important than motor vehicles and don't move over when they are not flowing with traffic.

This is why you get a dashcam. It’s not just idiots on two wheels but mostly the ones on four wheels.

 

[Slorider]

Cycling in the USA on roads is a rough proposition. We have a huge problem with drivers using emotions to make driving decisions. Whether that be someone in the left lane trying to block traffic or someone tailgating aggressively to intimidate another driver it happens every day. Even cyclists do this with the “I know I have the right of way” instead of “is this going to be an accident so maybe I should be more careful”. People think with their emotions instead of trying to be reasonable. When I say emotions that’s usually anger. It wouldn’t be so bad if it was some sort of happiness emotion.

How about when you drive your car be respectful to others on the road. If it’s a cyclist, don’t pass them within a foot. Give them some space. It’s the same when you’re on a bicycle and you can allow the car to pass don’t block the road. That person is just trying to get somewhere just like you. There’s no benefit to making that person’s day a little bit more difficult. How about showing them some kindness and maybe they will pass it along.

 

[PedalUma]

What if vehicle taxes were based on a formula that included factors such as: 1) Weight, 2) Frontal area, 3) Length, 4) Emissions, & 5) Miles driven? Heavy vehicles damage roads. High and wide ones block visibility. Long ones go across their lane when cornering. Stinky ones pollute. And ones that travel more miles do more overall damage to roads and bridges. @Mr. Coffee, Have you been hit with rolling coal yet? A group of us were by a flatbed pick up carrying bales of hay.

 

[PedalUma]

For those interested a group of us rode yesterday to promote making our town carbon neutral and more pedestrian and bike friendly by 2030. You can see us for about two minutes. That was fun.

 

[Slorider]

What if vehicle taxes were based on a formula that included factors such as: 1) Weight, 2) Frontal area, 3) Length, 4) Emissions, & 5) Miles driven? Heavy vehicles damage roads. High and wide ones block visibility. Long ones go across their lane when cornering. Stinky ones pollute. And ones that travel more miles do more overall damage to roads and bridges. @Mr. Coffee, Have you been hit with rolling coal yet? A group of us were by a flatbed pick up carrying bales of hay.

We have enough taxes and most of these taxes would hurt poor people more than anything. In this scenario a guy making a seven figure salary driving $100k+ Tesla would be paying less taxes then some construction worker trying to survive. I’m not saying “stick it to the man” but the poor guy driving the truck is going to be more severely impacted by a huge tax bill then the guy with the Tesla.

Also I suspect other than 18 wheelers the difference between the amount of wear caused by a little car versus a pick up truck to the road surface is probably insignificant. Roads degrade after time and need to be upgraded as population density increases. It’s costing just as much money to accommodate a Toyota Prius as it is the Ford pick up truck. I would say it costs less to accommodate a bicycle but if there are special needs such as its own lanes then it might actually cost more. I’m sure at some point governments will figure this out and make registration of a bicycle thing so they can get more tax money

Also a lot of people with bicycles are outdoor types who have trucks or SUVs so they can go camping or take their bicycles places. Most people use their bicycles for recreation rather than daily transportation. I drive a very small car but there are days that I wish I had a pick up truck so I can take my e-bike to get serviced.

I really dislike the rolling coal thing and that should be something that’s dealt with during vehicle inspections but somehow it just gets overlooked.

 

[PedalUma]

In economics there is the term Externality, or Externalities. We can think of the roads as being a common space. If someone is hogging it or polluting it, they should pay more for their impact and not have everyone else who is not hogging it or polluting it subsidize their selfish bad behavior. I agree that used clunkers end up with the poor. Yet wealthier people tend to be early adopters of advancing technologies. They pay a premium when getting out front before economies of scale kick in and the masses can then buy the advanced tech at a lower unit cost. By the way regarding safety on the roads, cars are for the first time in decades not the leading leading cause of traumatic death in the US. If a kid can find his or her Christmas present, they can find a gun. We all pay a price when that happens.

 

[tomjasz]

I agree that used clunkers end up with the poor.

And good data shows that when there are bicycle infrastructures bikes become more attractive and viable with fewer junker cars. The cost of trucking and the associated costs are so old school. Efficient trains were sold downriver to create an entire industry far less efficient and damaging. GM, Ford, and their ilk were the only winners.

 

[tomjasz]

Without a Gas Tax, How Will EVs Be Charged for Road Use?​

Infrastructure upgrades could hit a roadblock without taxpayer money

Consumer Reports April 24


Almost all states and the federal government rely on gas taxes to help pay for transportation projects and keep roads and highways in good condition. Fuel taxes account for 84 percent of federal and 29 percent of state highway funds. But where will the funding come from when more and more drivers switch to electric vehicles?
Currently, the federal tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon. The average state gas tax is 31 cents; it ranges from 8 cents per gallon in Alaska to 51.1 cents per gallon in California.
“The road tax is built into the price of gas. That money goes to support road infrastructure. And EVs don’t fuel up, so electric car drivers don’t contribute in that way,” says Gabe Shenhar, associate director of Consumer Reports’ auto test program. “For now, EVs are a small portion of the market. But this is something to consider, as EV sales increased from 2.1 percent in 2020 to 2.8 percent in 2021, and they’re going to continue to grow.”
There’s a similar dilemma when it comes to hybrid vehicles. A hybrid that gets 50 miles per gallon contributes less in gas taxes than a car that gets 25 mpg.

Some states have compensated for that lost revenue by doubling the registration fees for EVs, for instance. Another approach is to increase tolls on roads and bridges, with every driver paying the same toll, no matter what type of car they drive.

There are proposals for adding a tax to EV charging stations so that drivers are paying when they fill up, similar in spirit to what is done with gas-powered cars. The problem with that is EV drivers mostly charge their vehicles at home. States would be capturing that tax only when drivers charge up at public charging stations.

“The additional fee at registration may be the easiest method of recouping some of the lost gas tax revenue,” explains Kelly Funkhouser, manager of vehicle technology at Consumer Reports.

The problem that many EV owners are facing is that some states are taxing electric vehicle drivers at rates much higher than the average driver pays in gas taxes, effectively punishing drivers for choosing a zero-emission alternative to traditional gas-burning vehicles. That said, most EV drivers benefit from a $7,500 federal tax incentive. A single flat rate tax also does not factor in how much someone drives, meaning that they are inherently unfair to owners who drive fewer miles, who are often older or lower income. This will become more important as more EVs enter the used market, because older cars on average are driven fewer miles than newer ones.

The bottom line is no one likes taxes, but it’s important that EV owners share the burden to support road and transportation maintenance and upgrades to the country’s infrastructure. But it’s the responsibility of the states to make sure those taxes are equal to or less than current gas taxes, and are fair for drivers who travel fewer miles.

It is important for car shoppers to check their local rules to see whether taxes may be higher for an EV, because this would impact ownership costs.

 

[mschwett]

... GM, Ford, and their ilk were the only winners.

plus a bunch of real estate developers who made a fortune building shitty disposable housing by the kiloton in transit-inaccessible neighborhoods crudely built over formerly agricultural or natural resource land. the american dream!

 

[Handlebars]

Cycling in the USA on roads is a rough proposition. We have a huge problem with drivers using emotions to make driving decisions. Whether that be someone in the left lane trying to block traffic or someone tailgating aggressively to intimidate another driver it happens every day. Even cyclists do this with the “I know I have the right of way” instead of “is this going to be an accident so maybe I should be more careful”. People think with their emotions instead of trying to be reasonable. When I say emotions that’s usually anger. It wouldn’t be so bad if it was some sort of happiness emotion.

How about when you drive your car be respectful to others on the road. If it’s a cyclist, don’t pass them within a foot. Give them some space. It’s the same when you’re on a bicycle and you can allow the car to pass don’t block the road. That person is just trying to get somewhere just like you. There’s no benefit to making that person’s day a little bit more difficult. How about showing them some kindness and maybe they will pass it along.

1. Allow ebikes to go the urban speed limit and ride in the car lanes occupying full lane
2. Do not make bike lanes, let cars parallel park same as usual, so the usual pedestrian and driver culprits to watch for such as getting doored, or people stepping out , are on the right side, not both sides.
Save that construction and tax money for something that isn't regressive. Don't make us ride where the drain grates are. Let the cars park there, and get out of trying to control all aspects.

 

[PedalUma]

plus a bunch of real estate developers who made a fortune building shitty disposable housing by the kiloton in transit-inaccessible neighborhoods crudely built over formerly agricultural or natural resource land. the american dream!

This place is along the old Route 66. It was a fresh water paradise for wildlife. It had lakes of fresh water. The water table was upwelling from underground to higher than the ground. It was full of leafy trees. Now the water table does not exist. And it is covered with shitty disposable houses, parking lots and roads. Everyone there is car dependent and water comes from the Colorado River. A huge nearby river is dry most of the year. This desert is called Ranch Cucamonga in San Bernardino California. This picture must have been taken at the beginning of the lockdown. Normally it is full of brown smog. Cars have only been around for 100 years. Its not like we need to be stuck with them forever.

 

[Slorider]

My biggest point is the vehicle issue isn’t an “us vs them” thing. At least in the USA most people who own bicycles also own motorized vehicles. I used to listen to a cycling podcast till the guy kept ranting about people in pickup trucks.

I definitely can’t support anything that means higher taxes since I’m one of the poors that would be effected. Perhaps my perspective would be different if I was making at least a six figure salary but I’m falling short of this.

 

[Slorider]

it’s important that EV owners share the burden to support road and transportation maintenance and upgrades to the country’s infrastructure.

Wouldn’t this also apply to cyclists (electric and mechanical) who use the infrastructure but don’t pay fuel taxes?

 

[Cowlitz]

Wouldn’t this also apply to cyclists (electric and mechanical) who use the infrastructure but don’t pay fuel taxes?

If you are meaning roads, bikes have a miniscule impact on roads. What damage do they cause? Meanwhile, heavy trucks and studded tires are the usual suspects, along with some poor low bid paving jobs.

Bike lanes? I'd pay like a ten dollar tax if they were ever built here. A bike lane is favorable to the whole commuting community if it is attractive and safe enough to get people out of cars and onto bikes. That relieves traffic congestion for those who must drive.

My only vehicle is a pickup. I have it to pull my travel trailer, which decreases my gas mileage, which isn't good for the planet either. It is easy to haul an ebike with a pickup.

I do have little stick on flames which help the gas milage, I am sure. The duct tape freckle has also been replaced with a rivet.

 

[BlackHand]

Wouldn’t this also apply to cyclists (electric and mechanical) who use the infrastructure but don’t pay fuel taxes?

Absolutely. Don't forget all those freeloading pedestrians! Toll sidewalks, demand priced walk signals - you want to wait 5 minutes for the walk signal it's free. Reduce your wait to 90 seconds for a buck. Pay 2.50 and you can cross right now!

 

[mschwett]

If you are meaning roads, bikes have a miniscule impact on roads. What damage do they cause? Meanwhile, heavy trucks and studded tires are the usual suspects, along with some poor low bid paving jobs.
….

there’s wear and tear, which i’m sure you’re right is practically unmeasurable from bicycles. but the roads have to be constructed in the first place, on property that has value, and maintained when damaged by the elements or other non-use related factors. that they’d still have to exist even if you didn’t ride your bike on them is not a fair argument - you could make the same case for any individual user.

as much as i’m an advocate for cycling, i’m a bigger advocate for walking and transit in any place which has adverse weather of any sort. you simply can’t build a city around the idea that everyone is going to bike everywhere when winter comes and it’s snowing and freezing. the vast majority of cyclists are going to hop in a car (and cause mass traffic chaos) or transit, and cause overcrowding on systems that are underfunded and underdesigned because someone promised a much higher modal split for cycling. the real answer, again, is walkable, pedestrian friendly, transit first cities, which also happen to be very easy to make bike friendly too!